MJ vs. Lebron/Kobe

[Litos]

Originally Posted by ///mawana

Bolt-Carl Lewis among athletics fans.

Bolt is faster in a straight line, but I think Carl was the all around better athlete...

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Litos

also, from 2006 to 2013, Bron's shooting percentage has INCREASED every year.....

from 47% to 57%. freaking 57% from a guy that averages 26 or 27 points a game !?!?

Bron DEFINES EFFICIENCY !!!!

It's super easy to be efficient in today's NBA. Kevin Durant actually has a higher PERs than LBJ, and CP3 is right on LBJ's heels.

Larry Legend and MJ played in the NBA when the rules were defensively friendly, and he had to fight to get his points, and shot opportunities. Try getting a clean look at the basket when Larry Nancy is hand checking you, and on you like white on rice.

The sissy stuff that Lebron the Flopper King James has to endure today is laughable.

[squishy]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

It's super easy to be efficient in today's NBA.

Larry Legend and MJ played in the NBA when the rules were defensively friendly, and he had to fight to get his points, and shot opportunities. Try getting a clean look at the basket when Larry Nancy is hand checking you, and on you like white on rice.

The sissy stuff that Lebron the Flopper King James has to endure today is laughable.

X2.

Today's game is built for offensive prowess.

It's just too easy to get to the basket with the defense backing off to avoid a foul, or to get to the free throw line.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by squishy

X2.

Today's game is built for offensive prowess.

It's just too easy to get to the basket with the defense backing off to avoid a foul, or to get to the free throw line.

Exactly. I blame it all on Stern. That clown has tried everything to make the game "more exciting" for the lowest common denominator who just wants to see highlight dunks, flashy alley oops, and wide open uncontested 25 footers float seamlessly into the rim.

The simple fact is "defense" doesn't sell tickets, so Stern and his crones fouled up the game to make it more offensive friendly. Now you got guys like Durant, and LBJ who are "super efficient in scoring" because no one can touch them until they are literally only 1-2 steps from the rim.

Of course for most of the people on this forum who only started watching basketball starting in 2003 when Flopper King arrived, no one even realizes how soft the game has gotten.

[Litos]

a 210lb MJ wouldn't be able to hand check a 280lb Bron.

that's like saying back in the day MJ could hand check Hakeem Olajuwon or Karl Malone...

that, in itself, is laughable because Bron outweighs, is more athletic and 5 times more explosive than both of those guys.....

Hakeem is my favorite players ever - he had the best post moves of any center in the NBA ever and he was only 6'10".

but will not, for one straight second, say that he was a better athlete than Bron....

and again, I will NEVER say that a lightweight 210lb MJ could ever hand check a guy that weighs 60-65 more pounds than him with the same exact quickness and first step as him.....

Bron's torquey core and massive shoulders would run right through MJ's weak arms.....

[MediaArtist]

Umm, 6'1, 185 pound Rajon Rondo disagrees with you.



Flopper King was probably looking to get a flagrant 1 called here just like when he was begging for it when that Ginormous Monster JR Smith manhandled Flopper King and he was on the ground crying for an ejection.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Of course for most of the people on this forum who only started watching basketball starting in 2003 when Flopper King arrived, no one even realizes how soft the game has gotten.

I watched Magic and Bird beat each other up in the 80's.....

I watched the first Dream Team dominate every single country in the world....

I watched my Rockets win back to back NBA championships in the early 90's...

I watched all of MJ's 6 rings.....

I've watched two of the most dominating players at their position win rings (Shaq and Kobe)...

I've watched the Spurs become the classiest and winingest NBA team in the last decade.....

and now, I'm watching Bron trying to cement his legacy as being one of the most dominant, explosive and physically gifted players to ever come into the NBA.....

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Umm, 6'1, 185 pound Rajon Rondo disagrees with you.

Bron versus Rondo

it's like kicking puppies.....

Bron outweighs him by 100lbs and scores against Rondo at will....

that's a mouse in the house if I've ever seen one....

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Litos

I watched Magic and Bird beat each other up in the 80's.....

I watched the first Dream Team dominate every single country in the world....

I watched my Rockets win back to back NBA championships in the early 90's...

I watched all of MJ's 6 rings.....

I've watched two of the most dominating players at their position win rings (Shaq and Kobe)...

I've watched the Spurs become the classiest and winingest NBA team in the last decade.....

and now, I'm watching Bron trying to cement his legacy as being one of the most dominant, explosive and physically gifted players to ever come into the NBA.....

Dude, Lebron is good, MAYBE the best in the league right now (I think Kevin Durant is right up there). But he's playing in a softy league compared to MJ and Larry Bird.

You can say "he would run over Karl Malone, Hakeem, Larry Nance, Mutombo, etc" all you want, but the fact is Lebron doesn't even run over guys like Nene who maybe weighs 250?

Look at Lebron sprawled on the ground. You think Nene is a better defender than Mutombo, Hakeem, and all the ridiculously gritty, hard nosed defenders that made the 90s one of the lowest scoring leagues in the history of the NBA? So much so that Stern tried lowering the 3 point limit to 22 feet to get higher scores out of the teams in the league? Those guys would be all over Flopper King before he even got 15 feet from the rim, and he would be taking hard, contested shots, all day just like MJ and Bird had to do when they were in their primes.

GTFO here with that.

[///mawana]

Originally Posted by Litos

Bolt is faster in a straight line, but I think Carl was the all around better athlete...

[P-rex]

Originally Posted by Litos

Bolt is faster in a straight line, but I think Carl was the all around better athlete...

Carl is a disgraced cheater... Bolt is a cheetah..

Ben Jonson deserves his gold medal back ....

[1Pirate]

I've come into this thread late, but in my opinion MJ is the greatest of all time, in any era. Like others have said he was 6 for 6 in NBA championships and he took almost two years off trying the baseball thing. Although MJ was certainly very gifted athletically, his determination and will to win was what set him apart from all the rest.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Look at Lebron sprawled on the ground. You think Nene is a better defender than Mutombo, Hakeem, and all the ridiculously gritty, hard nosed defenders that made the 90s one of the lowest scoring leagues in the history of the NBA?

so - it was a clean black after he had spun around to make a layup.

he was already off balanced when Nene blocked him and created contact...

if that video was you trying to prove that Bron is soft, you failed....

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

It's super easy to be efficient in today's NBA. Kevin Durant actually has a higher PERs than LBJ, and CP3 is right on LBJ's heels.

Larry Legend and MJ played in the NBA when the rules were defensively friendly, and he had to fight to get his points, and shot opportunities. Try getting a clean look at the basket when Larry Nancy is hand checking you, and on you like white on rice.

The sissy stuff that Lebron the Flopper King James has to endure today is laughable.

Interesting. Why did Kobe never have a 50%+FG season? The closest to 50% was the 2001-2002 season at 46.9%.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Inspired

Interesting. Why did Kobe never have a 50%+FG season? The closest to 50% was the 2001-2002 season at 46.9%.

because he scores most of his points taking 30 shots a night.....

LBJ can score 26-28 points a night shooting the ball only 18-20 times and by getting to the line.....

he will also account for 14 or 15 points by assisting his team mates....


but hey, you can't win them all right !?!? I present to you shitbirds, my Michael Jordan socks....

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Inspired

Interesting. Why did Kobe never have a 50%+FG season? The closest to 50% was the 2001-2002 season at 46.9%.

Dude, during that season he averaged 20 shot attempts and 9.4 buckets

LBJ over his career has averaged about 20 shot attempts and 9.9 buckets per game.

That's literally "half" a shot difference, you can't get much closer than that. Yeah, LBJ is ever so slightly more accurate, but let's not go overboard like your boy Litos, and act like Kobe is throwing up bricks all night on his way to winning 5 NBA Championships. When you consider Kobe plays the 2-spot in the back court, his numbers are actually impressive.

As a shot guard, he's usually playing against the best or second best perimeter defender on a given team. Additionally, the 2-spot is expected to take far more perimeter shots than someone playing forward like Lebron James. Kobe simply takes a lot more difficult shots than LBJ is expected to take given their positions. Give me a break comparing a small forward/power forwards efficiency to a shot guards efficiency. That's ridiculous. Tyson Chandler was in the Top 3 for efficiency in 2012, and #1 for FG percentage, does that mean he's better than LBJ? or Kevin Durant? There are literally no shot guards in the Top 10 for PERs, and there's a reason for that, which I've described above.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Dude, during that season he averaged 20 shot attempts and 9.4 buckets

LBJ over his career has averaged about 20 shot attempts and 9.9 buckets per game.

so during Kobe's BEST YEAR, he was still less efficient than LBJ !??!

that's cool......

right now Bron is taking 16.7 shots a game - and he's making 9.6 of them.

Kobe HAS NEVER and WILL NEVER be close to being that efficient....like EVER....

in the last 8 years, Bron has shot 4 more percentage points higher from 3pt land than Kobe, he has taken less shots than Kobe and has a much better FG% than Kobe....

and lets not even talk about how Bron outclasses him in the passing department and outrebounds Kobe by 2 rebounds a game....

so, in short, Bron is bigger, stronger, is more efficient, shoots better FG and 3pt percentages, out rebounds and out assists Kobe....

cool......

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

As a shot guard, he's usually playing against the best or second best perimeter defender on a given team. Additionally, the 2-spot is expected to take far more perimeter shots than someone playing forward like Lebron James.

Bron is listed as a #3, but if you haven't clearly seen how the Heat/Cavs have used him as a #2 for the last 10 years, then you may need to stop watching basketball all together.....

and yes, the best defender is always on Bron - please refer to the picture you posted above of Rondo, which is a dedicated PG and best defender on his team, guarding Bron....

KD is the same exact way - 6'10" SG playing the #2 97% of the night and being guarded by the opposing team's best defender....

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Litos

Bron is listed as a #3, but if you haven't clearly seen how the Heat/Cavs have used him as a #2 for the last 10 years, then you may need to stop watching basketball all together.....

and yes, the best defender is always on Bron - please refer to the picture you posted above of Rondo, which is a dedicated PG and best defender on his team, guarding Bron....

KD is the same exact way - 6'10" SG playing the #2 97% of the night and being guarded by the opposing team's best defender....

Cheetos you're my boy, but you have to stop embarrassing yourself. You may have a beautiful wife, but even she would be embarrassed by the BS you're spouting here in the sports forum!

LBJ doesn't not take the same shots as any teams 2-spot guard, that's ridiculous.

In the past 30 days, the overwhelming majority of Lebron's shots are within the key (52%), and he's only made 15 perimeter jumpers (excluding his 3 pointers of course of which he's taken 47 shooting 27% (about 19% of his shot chart).

Compare that to Jamal Crawford, a true shot guard. In the past 30 days, Jamal is taking only 43% of his shots in the key, and the vast majority of his shots are 15 footers near the perimeter. He's taken 90 treys, or 42% of his total shots (double the amount of Lebron James), and is hitting about 40% of them.

This is what any fan who actually understands the game would expect, LBJ's numbers show he is acting and operating more like a front court player, and Jamal Crawford's shot chart shows he's a 2-spot guy. This is why LBJ should be expected to be slightly more efficient than Kobe, Kobe is simply expected to take more difficult shots than someone like LBJ.

Learn about the game Cheetos.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

LBJ doesn't not take the same shots as any teams 2-spot guard, that's ridiculous.

you made yourself look like a clown in your last post - then you go back and follow it up with this ridiculous statement.

out of all the top 25 scorers in the league, Bron is shooting MORE than James Harden, Damien Lillard, Goran Dragic, Isaiah Thomas, John Wall, Monte Ellis, Kevin Martin and DeWayne Wade....

so Bron is more efficient because he doesn't jack up lower percentage shots, even though he commands the ball like a PG and shoots more shots than all but one SG in the whole league....

there is ONE SINGLE SG in the entire league that shoots more than Bron, and that's DeMar DeRozan. that shitbird can't even hit 43% of his shots....

so, like I explained it earlier, Bron has been used as a #2 for his entire career, even though he's listed as a SF. he runs the point like a PG, he takes MORE shot attempts than every single SG in the league with the exception of one guy that pretty much sucks and he knows how to EFFICIENTLY get buckets.....

[Litos]

let me define efficiency: of the top 6 scorers in the league, Bron shoots the ball LESS than every single one of them....

he averages one point less per game than Melo, who shoots it 5 more times a game.....

that's why Melo is and always will be a mess....he will NEVER win a ring - ever.......

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Litos

so Bron is more efficient because he doesn't jack up lower percentage shots,

That's my point Cheetos! LBJ based on his shot chart operates like a front court player more than a back court player, that's why he isn't "jacking up" difficult to convert shots. Over half his points are from shots 0-4 feet from the rim.

Fowards and Centers 9 out of 10 times will be more efficient than back court players because they make their bread and butter closer to the rim. Do you see a single shot guard in the PERs Top 10? No? There's a reason for that and it's not because all shot guards suck compared to LBJ.