F80 pulling to the right

[Wei718]

^ I noticed mines the second time I got onto the freeway with less than 50 miles but it seems like it's getting a little better as I drive it more. It can be that I'm getting used to it.

You should definitely bring it up during your visit, they should warranty a alignment as long as it's under 2k miles.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by ES_TRADER

Is it really true Bmw is made this way? Never noticed this on my other bmws but then again I didn't read a thread about it before. I actually didn't even notice the pulling until I saw this thread and started to pay attention to it

Is it even Worth mentioning at break in service?

It's not true, BMW is not made to pull to the right. My E92 M3 never did that, nor my E92 335i.

Looks like it's an issue with the newer generations, I remember the same problems for the F10 5 series, maybe it's good to check on their forums to see how they solved it. They said it's a bit more than a simple alignment, I remember something like switching from left to right some part of the suspension plus some software tweaks.

[Noisygriff]

Just an observation (I don't have my M3 yet):

Everyone's taking their cars to BMW with this problem. The common response is that the car is aligned to the manufacturer's spec. If this were me, I'd take the car to a decent performance shop with a good alignment set up and get them to look at the car.

If you let them know how you want the car to drive, they'll adjust it from its current settings to achieve 'straight'.

[dhoggm3]

It's not the alignment. It has something to do with the stock PSS tires. The fronts sometimes develop the "pull" as they wear-in. Just swap the fronts left-to-right and the problem goes away. Easy-peasy.

[Marckymarc305]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

It's not the alignment. It has something to do with the stock PSS tires. The fronts sometimes develop the "pull" as they wear-in. Just swap the fronts left-to-right and the problem goes away. Easy-peasy.

I swap it and aligned, still pulls to the right. I'm on my third alignment and still does the same.

[JoeFromPA]

I've read some members (i.e. right above this post) who are talking about having 3 alignments performed and still having an issue. I think we'd all be better off in this thread if there was some fundamentals of what makes a car go down the road straight established.



- An alignment measures the angles of the wheels/tires. Are they aimed towards each other (toe-in/toe-out), do the wheels/tires lay flat or at a slight angle (camber), and what is the offset of the steering wheels in relation to the vertical axis of the suspension (caster).

- An alignment should also measure thrust angle, which is a determination of any angle/offset in the axles from wheel to wheel - the wheels should be in the same place on both sides, but sometimes bushings wear out or something's bent and they sit differently. So let's leave thrust angle out of this discussion because it require a significant issue or older vehicle to be a problem in driving straight.

- Cross-camber, total-toe, etc. is just a summation of angles.

- Caster is, for all discussion purposes, a fixed alignment issue. You need to have significant suspension issues for caster to be out of whack, which would require replacement parts. So let's leave caster out of this discussion

- ALIGNMENTS ARE SUPER SIMPLE AND DO NOT REQUIRE ADVANCED EQUIPMENT TO DO PROPERLY. You are literally just measuring the angles of the wheels. For a vehicle to not drive straight due to alignment requires something to be notably out of whack which is "instantly" detectable when measured. Your alignment will fluctuate over time, so a minor camber, toe, caster, or thrust angle issue is not going to suddenly cause you to pull right.

- There is no such thing as a member on this board having their alignment done 3x and still pulling to the right. All that means is they've had their alignment checked 3x, most likely nothing was changed (and hopefully it wasn't changed, just confirmed as good), and nothing else was done. NO ONE SHOULD BE CHANGING THEIR ALIGNMENT from factory specs unless they are preparing to race, understand alignments and want something different, or a major alignment issue was identified on an alignment rack (i.e. something totally out of spec) most likely requiring a replacement part on a brand new car.

- If your car is pulling to the side, the alignment is within normal spec but is re-aligned to drive straight, then an alignment shop did you a grave dis-service. They put the car OUT OF SPEC in order to create an opposing pull to make the car drive straight. While it might feel fine, it's not.

...

Ok, so, after going through this if you have a "pull to the right" issue then:

1. Your alignment should be immediately shown as off when measured, and off significantly. Given a BMW can drive 50-100k miles on potholed roads and, assuming no blown our tires/cracked rims, maintain an in-spec alignment - your alignment should not be off from the factory unless a part has been damaged or the factory really screwed up, which is very very unlikely.

If your alignment is within specification ranges, and your car is pulling, ALIGNMENT IS NOT YOUR ISSUE.

2. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires. Tires.

Almost every modern tire involves radially wound steel belts and nylon cords in a very specific pattern that are then heated until the rubber reaches near liquidity and placed under enormous pressure. Occasionally, something doesn't cure exactly right.

And then occasionally, two tires are put on the same axle in a way in which when they rotate TOGETHER they create a pull to one side that is not detected when balancing one tire alone NOR when sitting static on an alignment rack.

3. This effect in the tires, often described as radial pull, can most commonly be "solved" by rotating the front tires side to side - literally just changing the wheels to the opposite side. The reason for this is the pull is usually two tires on the steering axles that both have a slight tendency to pull a certain direction (i.e. right) that, when put on a certain way, create a pull - but when swapped to the opposite side, balance each other out.

4. If swapping front tires fails, then swap the rears. While far less common, this can cause a pull.

...

Now, if you've done all this and your alignment checks out fine and you've swapped front tires and it still pulls, then you most likely have a bad batch of tires. Here's why:

A car does not pull to the right or left on a straight road if it's wheels are aligned correctly and it's tires are manufacturered correctly. It will drive straight because there's no force pulling it to one side or another. It's balanced and aligned to drive straight.

If it pulls to the right, an alignment shows it's properly setup, then the wheels/tires are at fault. It's time for new tires.

Hope this helps others.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

It's not the alignment. It has something to do with the stock PSS tires. The fronts sometimes develop the "pull" as they wear-in. Just swap the fronts left-to-right and the problem goes away. Easy-peasy.

Sometimes it is the alignment. I got lucky I guess reading some of these replies as my alignment was off from the factory. It was fixed on the first try.

Sounds like multiple things are going on. Plus add to it that not all dealership service departments have the same quality of techs/service and it turns in to this.

This is my second new BMW in a row that pulled to the right. My 335 was misaligned from the factory as well.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by minn19

This is my second new BMW in a row that pulled to the right. My 335 was misaligned from the factory as well.

So this is one of the reasons I posted above a detailed overview of this. Two brand new cars delivered with an alignment issue is incredibly rare. The quality control issues required from a manufacturing standpoint are....well, it's unlikely.

However, radial pull from two tires can not be checked without a test drive and is possible.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen vehicles delivered with actual alignment issues. It's just extremely, extremely rare because an alignment issue on a brand new car is either:

1. A part was mis-installed (extremely rare)
2. A toe or camber adjustment bolt was mis-installed (extremely unlikely when it comes to suspension components)
3. A delivery issue occurred (not likely under NORMAL delivery circumstances since this is something they do day in and day out)

If an alignment issue is present, I'd want to understand it a bit better. If they simply adjusted the alignment so the vehicle drove straight, then you'll get pre-mature tire wear and less than ideal gas mileage.

[Marckymarc305]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

So this is one of the reasons I posted above a detailed overview of this. Two brand new cars delivered with an alignment issue is incredibly rare. The quality control issues required from a manufacturing standpoint are....well, it's unlikely.

However, radial pull from two tires can not be checked without a test drive and is possible.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen vehicles delivered with actual alignment issues. It's just extremely, extremely rare because an alignment issue on a brand new car is either:

1. A part was mis-installed (extremely rare)
2. A toe or camber adjustment bolt was mis-installed (extremely unlikely when it comes to suspension components)
3. A delivery issue occurred (not likely under NORMAL delivery circumstances since this is something they do day in and day out)

If an alignment issue is present, I'd want to understand it a bit better. If they simply adjusted the alignment so the vehicle drove straight, then you'll get pre-mature tire wear and less than ideal gas mileage.

Had mine done three times, swap the tires side, so you want me to buy two new front tires or all four?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

So this is one of the reasons I posted above a detailed overview of this. Two brand new cars delivered with an alignment issue is incredibly rare. The quality control issues required from a manufacturing standpoint are....well, it's unlikely.

However, radial pull from two tires can not be checked without a test drive and is possible.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen vehicles delivered with actual alignment issues. It's just extremely, extremely rare because an alignment issue on a brand new car is either:

1. A part was mis-installed (extremely rare)
2. A toe or camber adjustment bolt was mis-installed (extremely unlikely when it comes to suspension components)
3. A delivery issue occurred (not likely under NORMAL delivery circumstances since this is something they do day in and day out)

If an alignment issue is present, I'd want to understand it a bit better. If they simply adjusted the alignment so the vehicle drove straight, then you'll get pre-mature tire wear and less than ideal gas mileage.

It must be rare as both SAs I dealt with were skeptical as well. They seemed genuinely surprised when telling me it was off and when they fixed it.

I know I have the alignment print out for my M3 and might for my 335. If it would be helpful to post pics of them I can.

FYI this was with running my winter setup and not my stock 18s on the M3.

[JTO24]

My e92 m3 pulled to the right upon delivery too but the dealership did an alignment and all was good. Hopefully BMW listens to you guys... So far the rod bearing saga for e92 m's has not gotten too far lol.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc305

Had mine done three times, swap the tires side, so you want me to buy two new front tires or all four?

If your brand new vehicle has had it's alignment checked multiple times, swapped the tires side to side, and it still pulls to the right...

Then either:

- Swap the rear side to side just to confirm that it makes no difference
- Ask the dealership to put two new tires on the front end.

[Marckymarc305]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

If your brand new vehicle has had it's alignment checked multiple times, swapped the tires side to side, and it still pulls to the right...

Then either:

- Swap the rear side to side just to confirm that it makes no difference
- Ask the dealership to put two new tires on the front end.

I actually did that also lol and ask for new tires, they said BMW can't do that. It's just annoying to drive like this.
They sent me a email to do a survey and said its a new car and that's I shouldn't be having that problem, the local dealership wants the car back to solve the problem. Will see how that goes when I bring it back for a fourth time

[JoeFromPA]

Yes, they have recognized a problem. They've tried to fix it. If they fail to fix it, then they should either recommend a corrective action or offer you a replacement vehicle.

How many mmiles on the car?

[Vigilant]

Joefrompa...I read your comment with great interest. It would make sense that tires would be the culprit more so than the other factors you mentioned. I could not determine from the thread, but are folks having problems with the entire F8x lineup or is it just with the M4?

I have 3200 miles on my F80 with zero issues related to alignment.

I am wondering if the M4 build has specific issues, i.e. CAN resistor SB, as a new model being built in a plant separate from the M3. The M4 is made in Munich whereas the M3 is made in Regensburg.

Just a thought...

[Marckymarc305]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Yes, they have recognized a problem. They've tried to fix it. If they fail to fix it, then they should either recommend a corrective action or offer you a replacement vehicle.

How many mmiles on the car?

5000 miles now

[FTS]

I only read this last page of this thread, so if this a repeat I apologize. I have been to countless alignment shops and have done my own alignments in the past using the good old fashion strings method (don't try it at home, too time consuming).

My experience has been that 90% of the time when I haven't been happy with my alignment, it has been due to equipment failure, 5% of the time human error. Alignment machines and its components nowadays go out of calibration over time, shops generally get it recalibrated once a month or quarterly depending on volume. However I have seen many shops that do it once a year or some even never.

The first question I ask a shop is when the machine was calibrated, if it is over three months ago, I make a point to go else where; our time and money is too valuable to waste in bad practices.

[Marckymarc305]

Originally Posted by FTS

I only read this last page of this thread, so if this a repeat I apologize. I have been to countless alignment shops and have done my own alignments in the past using the good old fashion strings method (don't try it at home, too time consuming).

My experience has been that 90% of the time when I haven't been happy with my alignment, it has been due to equipment failure, 5% of the time human error. Alignment machines and its components nowadays go out of calibration over time, shops generally get it recalibrated once a month or quarterly depending on volume. However I have seen many shops that do it once a year or some even never.

The first question I ask a shop is when the machine was calibrated, if it is over three months ago, I make a point to go else where; our time and money is too valuable to waste in bad practices.

I hear you bud, the thing is quite a few people are having the same problem and it's still not solve. Sucks

[Marckymarc305]

Found the guy that has been doing alignments at my local BMW

[dhoggm3]

Originally Posted by Marckymarc305

I swap it and aligned, still pulls to the right. I'm on my third alignment and still does the same.

THAT would be infuriating. BMW may have to work with Michelin to re-think the PSS spec for this car.

[Marckymarc305]

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

THAT would be infuriating. BMW may have to work with Michelin to re-think the PSS spec for this car.

I think you are right about this

[ES_TRADER]

Made the complaint during break in, told them to swap fronts and they did but I don't think I see any difference. Still pulls right. Takes about 5-6 seconds till I cross into the next lane