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01-16-2017, 12:55 PM | #111 | |
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Once you look at the entire equasion it becomes just as complicated if not more complicated |
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01-16-2017, 12:55 PM | #112 |
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Which is why I said
"The big sticking point is as you already point out battery density, and of course charge speed. Until you can fit 500 miles worth of batteries into the space a fuel tank takes up, and charge that battery in less than 5 minutes the uptake simply won't be there." Never said batteries were "simple". Electric motors are undeniably simpler than combustion engines. Trying to agree with you here, but I guess the other thread has set you into combat mode |
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01-16-2017, 01:08 PM | #113 | |
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The weight of batteries exceeds that of fuel by a significant margin There's the issue of parity wrt taxation of "fuel" Lack of fueling stations, a billing model and power distribution/generation There are other issues as well |
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01-16-2017, 01:25 PM | #115 |
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There's no "We" when it comes to putting multiple men on the moon....and the US did it at massive cost to tax payers.
Possible and Practical are two different things....in fact they are usually mutually exclusive of one another Back to performance vehicles though So long as the infrastructure is lacking to achieve parity in functionality/range/etc with ICE's there will be a need for a combination of technologies (electric and ICE) and that simply results in a more complicated/expensive vehicle to produce and maintain |
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01-16-2017, 04:08 PM | #116 | |
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I'm also having a hard time to believe that you cannot charge at your destination overnight. What is that location that doesn't have electricity? Do they not have sewer either? Care to share address (approximate is fine) ? Last edited by AndreyATC; 01-16-2017 at 04:14 PM.. |
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01-16-2017, 04:26 PM | #117 |
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Charge stations are not everywhere, not by any stretch of the imagination
Once you're a little outside of the I95 corridor its challenging Out for a drive up 91 through Mass/Vt/NH and there's quite literally nothing between brattleboro and canada All of vermont is dicey...... https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds...e=concord%20nh As far as electric generations goes, unless you're willing to go to nuclear power generation a very large percentage of power to run that electric car comes from dino sources |
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01-16-2017, 04:43 PM | #118 | |
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There are Charpoint stations everywhere, Chademo, etc Fast charges popping up daily They are installed now in garages, hotels, parking lots, everywhere. In no time they will outnumber gas stations. I'm gas free household for 3yrs and trust me, i dont miss it! BTW, you forgot to press Supercharger button in your link https://www.tesla.com/findus#/bounds...e=concord%20nh That's why you dont see much Also, cool site: https://supercharge.info/ click on red icon and pick "circle on" to see the distance between them Vermont looks good to me P.S. Luck of information and miss-information is what kills it for EVs Some people are still in last century in terms of EV knowledge Last edited by AndreyATC; 01-16-2017 at 04:52 PM.. |
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01-16-2017, 04:57 PM | #119 | |
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It doesnt work for a lot of folks I dont think I would ever buy into the electric car model for a LOT of reasons Cost, complexity, difficulty in tshooting/repair Dependency on electricity to....I've been through too many extended outages due to weather/other....and there's no EV equivalent of a couple 5gal jugs of fuel Not to mention I'm just a petro head....I like CI/IC engines....its a viceral thing I have a buddy thats loves his tesla....but he made a comment about most EV folks he knows......they are a lot like apple fanatics To each their own.....variety.....you know the rest of the expression |
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01-16-2017, 05:49 PM | #120 | |
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While I do not see Nissan Leaf owners as Apple fanatics, but Tesla owners are very much so. |
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01-16-2017, 06:27 PM | #121 | |
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I get your point about the visceral nature of an internal combustion engine, but then again people still resist facebook/twitter/instagram as the modern platform for business development and marketing, in favor of TV ads and newspapers...so I guess some people are just stuck in the past. Gotta embrace the change and move with the times!
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01-16-2017, 06:58 PM | #122 | |
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There's nothing wrong with TV ads and newspaper ads, and until the day that NO ONE watches TV ever, or no one reads any sort of news articles ever, print advertising as a medium, and TV advertising as a medium, will not go away. TV/Radio/Newspaper/Magazine are passive advertising mediums that reach a much wider audience at a lower per impression cost. FB/Twitter (which is dying a slow death, by the way)/Instagram is an ACTIVE medium that cost WAY more per impression but has better conversion rate. Any marketing professional worth his or her salt that would ignore one or the other (passive or active) would not last long in this industry, period. Now. If you want to talk budget/technology/ROI, there are situations where one would favor one medium over others. A high-tech start-up with the majority of their clientele based in game dev for social media? If they're advertising on TV during Super Bowl weekend, or taking out an ad in Sports Illustrated Swim Suite edition, whoever is their marketing guy needs to be fired ASAP. An established, mainstream soft drink company that spends more than 80% of their advertising budget solely on FB/Instagram to convert marketshare? Same thing. Fire that marketing guy. Just because a "technology" is new doesn't mean it is THE solution for everyone. And you're talking with a converted electric vehicle guy (i've got 2 pure plug-in EVs in the garage right now). The infrastructure is at least 5 years away from mass adaptation here in the U.S., and maybe even further for a global solution. Until batteries are standardized, can be quickly swapped out in 5 minutes at local charging stations much like gas, it will NOT supplant ICE as the sole solution to performance transportation.
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01-17-2017, 03:56 AM | #123 | ||
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Also wasn't trying to change the topic of the thread. Really just making a (valid) comparison. ?
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01-17-2017, 06:05 AM | #124 | |
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2. Its park, pay, pump. Takes me 2 min. If charging is 10 min, charge stations would have to be 5 times larger to be as effective and just as numerous as gas stations. Huge amount of real estate someone needs to pay for. 3.electric motors start heating up after 3 or so good pulls and loose far more effectiveness that ice engines. I don't track but now your comment on tracking makes most people need a second car to track. Most people can't afford a crappy tesla to begin with, let alone a dedicated track car also, so tracking would become something only for the wealthy elite. 4 i got 400 mile range on my 335i all day before mods for over 200k. Less stops, less station stops. Up the number of spaces again on the fueling sites. 5 car looks are owner maintenance. Battery life however is not. Batteries need changing well before 200k. That's costly, poluting, and expensive. Add that cost in and they become even more expensive. 6. The ev batteries are a real environmental hazzard. Heavy metals, mining, etc. Oil production is a way smaller impact. ANWR needs a footprint in the artic the size of a football field to produce the oil for 80 yrs of US consumption. Smaller than a single nickel plant. The electricity needed to generate the power for evs comes from where? Fossil fuels. Its an inefficient way to make power. And if you want to go to the false socialist argument that there's climate change, well I'll leave that to the new administration to correct the record. 7. I drive 300 miles each way daily for work. There's no overnight charging. And even if i do an overnight stay at a hotel, i need to as the front desk for a plug, extension cord, worry about a kid unplugging me? Its hard enough even finding a parking spot. The laughs from the desk would be thunderous. 8. Almost forgot reliability. Consumer reports just named the tesla one of the most unreliable card on the market. Teala does have reliable tow vehicles for roadside assistance. F350 diesels. Which brings me to towing. I don't see any EVs towing. Guess we won't be allowed to anymore? Last edited by Fundguy1; 01-17-2017 at 06:24 AM.. |
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01-17-2017, 09:44 AM | #125 | |
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1. FL has 14, not 2 superchargers and that's more than enough to do any type of driving. https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/su.../United+States 2. You need zero real estate, charging stalls are part of the parking 3. On my 3rd Tesla and never overheated. I did waaay more than 3 pulls at the time. It was fun watching Power output on my app. And no, no degradation after each pull like in ICE when it gets heat soaked. You've heard it happened somewhere probably and now you think it's the case for all EV cars. EV motor is not affected by temperature, elevation and humidity as much as ICE. I thought you knew that 4. I'm surprised you get 400 per tank, i had less success with 335i. Though, its a small car with hwy-only miles, so that helps 5. Haha.. battery will perform at over 90% of it's capacity after 200K. it has 3000 cycles before it gets to 80% of its range, so After 750,000 miles you may think of replacing it. http://insideevs.com/200000-miles-te...y-degradation/ 6. Remember BP spill? Go around the world and see how clean oil production is. There are thousands of disaster cases you can find examples of. Keep ignoring... Electricity comes from different sources and some of them unfortunately not so clean. But, as grid becomes cleaner, it makes thousands cars automatically less polluting. Also, it requires less energy to power EV than ICE. I'm personally, charging with solar, so do other people. This is becoming more popular likely 7. Please provide your route, i find it HARD to believe you even need to charge over night. Your commute is almost within the range of the battery. Quick stop at supercharger is more than enough to meet your daily needs. 8. Reliability, yes it had it's fair amount of issues, but that happens to 1st model year to a lot of brands. You always seem to selectively pick unfavorable info in any EV section Almost like you're so biased that you cannot accept the fact that EVs are part of the car industry now. Tesla: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/24/why-c...ty-rating.html Others: http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...der-1.11016600 |
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01-17-2017, 10:22 AM | #126 |
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1 have not SEEN any. 14 vs 10000 gas stations or hundreds of e85 is an insignificant amount
2 where? As i said I've only seen twice, and they were private. I'm in 3 or 4 different major city parking lots all over the state daily. I go to large office buildings for work. I've seen zero for public use. 3 every report i see they iverheat. Maybe you aren't pulling repeatedly to higher speeds. 4 cruise i got 27mpg. 16 gallons that's 432 mile range. 5 prius need replacing by 200k and loose a good chunk by 100k. Idk how tesla is superior when effectively its identical tech and used much more than in a hybrid 6 i live in fl. Yes i remember. Bp was caused by illegal short cuts. Even then pretty much a non event. And i live here. Now with bp leak a historical event, more stringent policies are in place to stop that. Want to really worry? Communist countries are drilling for oil in the gulf. Do you trust them more? Are they going to stop? Or are they gonna take it and leave us none? 7 route changes daily. I cover the southern half of the state. And why should i base my route or my accommodations on charging ability? How inconvenient and how much extra time and mileage would that work out to? 8 at least we agree here it has issues. |
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01-17-2017, 10:43 AM | #127 | |
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When i'm on the trip the car tells me where i can stop on my route. it's part of navigation system. I can either skip or charge on the station 2. There are people who drive a lot more than you do. Superchargers are close enough not to worry about charging. 3. when you look at the same report from different sources you may end up feeling that way Even towing does not create a problem 5. Prius battery tech is junk Only Tesla has cooled/heated battery, which maintains good health of the pack. It also has the highest density of all. In short, you cannot compare Tesla battery to others 8. No, we didnt agree here, Model S in fairly reliable now (CR link above, my own experience as well), older models issues are gone. Model X is great as well, I'm pretty sure CR will update their records soon, just like they did for MS Last edited by AndreyATC; 01-17-2017 at 10:56 AM.. |
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01-17-2017, 10:47 AM | #128 |
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Looks like quite a few charging stations in FL. Not sure if there are as many gas stations
Hundreds within a few miles BTW, Any EV can charge from these. It is ChargePoint station In no time they'll have entire US covered |
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01-17-2017, 11:46 AM | #129 |
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They should just have an M, a hybrid and an electric version of each chassis. That way everyone gets what they want. I'd buy an M2 and also buy an electric 2 series. One for daily and the other one for fun. Others can just get the hybrid version. Going fully electric will probably cause some panic
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01-18-2017, 05:00 AM | #130 | |
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The pollution to produce your car is way bigger than producing a IC vehicle. Bad news for your health. I bet your house is close to a cell phone tower but you are happy for the strong signal. Keep believing your government "safe limits" mental reinforcement. And please, don't try your "educate yourself" nonsense. I have years in the field of electronics and EMF. |
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01-18-2017, 08:17 PM | #131 | ||
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I'm not going to judge your professional skills in EMF and etc. I do have a question though Are you still in the field? Do you know that not all EVs created equal? Please elaborate on pollution matter I just can't see Tesla's would be so horrible for environment, especially when everyone around burns tons of gasoline. I mean, you need to burn gas to produce gas. Then you need to burn gas to deliver gas. Then you burn gas to get from point a to b. As for the EMF, what do you think about this article? You think your car is any safer? http://www.createhealthyhomes.com/car_EMFs.php Here is another one from CR http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...WantsFull=true So, Tesla generates 1 mG, while Chevy Cobalt 30 mG. And this with safety standard of 2000 P.S. My house is far from the cell tower and I'd like to keep it that way. I also have minimal wi-fi at the house. Everything is hardwired, except phones and tablets. No cordless phones |
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