Horner in trouble at Red Bull

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Some rumour that the announcement of Newey leaving could be today and he could be going quite quickly, separate rumour that he is going to Ferrari is less clear.

In 1996 when Williams won the championship in a Newey designed car...Newey asked for some shares in Williams (and a promotion) as a reward for his efforts.
Patrict and Frank refused. That and their treatment of Hill convinced Newey to leave for McLaren.

Imagine instead they had given Newey shares in Williams and he had stayed with them...the F1 landscape would be quite different today.

I think a move to Ferrari makes most sense for Newey. If nothing else..Bringing success to Ferrari elevates you to near god like status in Italy.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Also May 17-19. If Verstappen participates with his Team Redline, it'll be double shifts again for him: competing in the real world of F1 + competing in the virtual world of sim racing at top level.

Operating at top level in parallel dimensions: no other F1 driver can hold a candle against him in combining such a double life, being successful in both worlds. Nuts.

yeah i hope so, me and my friends who are up in the iratings usually compete in the 24hr of nur on iRacing each year.. so I'm looking forward to it again for my 3rd time!

[MontyB1]

Sky Sports have said no announcement today on Newey, seems like it isn’t far away though.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Sky Sports have said no announcement today on Newey today.

It's told to be postponed to next Thursday (May 2) because of Senna's remembrance day (1994-2024).

Rumors that Newey will be free after this season.

"Newey lawyers negotiating early exit from Red Bull"
BBC Sport - Andrew Benson - Apr 30, 2024
https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/c84z8qklqvzo

Leading designer Adrian Newey is negotiating an exit from Red Bull that would leave him free to join another team in early 2025, BBC Sport has learned.
The early departure of the man regarded as F1's greatest ever designer from the world champions is to be announced within days following negotiations over his contract.
A spokesperson for Red Bull said: “We don’t have any comment at this time.”
Newey’s next team is not yet decided but Ferrari are hot favourites to sign him.
The 65-year-old’s contract as Red Bull’s chief technical officer runs to the end of 2025 and is said to include a 12-month “non-compete clause” that theoretically should have precluded him starting work for another team until 2027.
But his lawyers are securing an early exit and he will be free to start work from next year, high-level sources close to Red Bull and Newey have said.
The early exit from his Red Bull contract allows Newey to be in place at any team for which he signs in time to start work on their 2026 car - a crucial step.
F1 is introducing new engine and chassis regulations in 2026 and Newey has become famous for his ability to spot the secrets of new rules and steal a march on his rivals as a result.
This happened in 1998 when he was at McLaren and in 2009 and 2022 at Red Bull.
Ferrari, who have at least twice previously failed to secure Newey’s signature after negotiations, are known to be pursuing him.
Aston Martin have offered him a contract.
McLaren Racing chief executive officer Zak Brown said: “Adrian is a good friend and clearly the most successful designer of all time.
“However, we have a plan in place at McLaren and I am extremely happy with our technical leadership team and the progress we’re making to get back to the front of the grid.”
Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has indicated he is not interested in pursuing Newey.
He said at an event in New York on Monday: “Adrian Newey is an iconic engineer in F1 with a great track record and again also there are so many people talking about what he eventually might do and whether he leaves Red Bull or not.
“I’m just looking at it like a fan and watching that space.”

When will the announcement be?
Red Bull’s confirmation that Newey is to leave is not expected to come until Thursday at the earliest.
This is out of respect for the memory of Ayrton Senna - Wednesday, 1 May is the 30th anniversary of the legendary three-time champion’s death at the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix in a Williams car designed by Newey.
Newey, who along with former Williams technical director Patrick Head was cleared of Senna’s manslaughter after lengthy legal proceedings in Italy, has regularly spoken about his sadness at the Brazilian’s loss.
Newey has been unsettled at Red Bull by the fallout from allegations by a female employee that team principal Christian Horner was guilty of sexual harassment and controlling, coercive behaviour.
Horner has always denied the charges and was cleared by an internal Red Bull investigation in February. A second investigation is under way after the complainant appealed.
The allegations unearthed a power struggle at Red Bull between Horner and motorsport director Helmut Marko, and between the Thai controlling shareholder Chalerm Yoovidhya and minority shareholders Red Bull GmbH in Austria.
There has also been growing tension in recent times between Horner and Newey over the designer’s importance to the team.
Horner has seemed to diminish Newey’s input in some interviews, and emphasise the role of the rest of the design group under technical director Pierre Wache. Newey, who eschews the public eye, has privately pushed back against this inside the team.

What effect will this have?
Newey’s departure will be regarded as a seismic blow to Red Bull, given their domination of the sport since 2022, and will raise further questions about the future of world champion Max Verstappen.
The Dutchman is known to have been unsettled by the fallout from the Horner saga and has repeatedly ducked the question when asked to give his team boss his full backing.
But Verstappen, who is under contract to Red Bull until the end of 2028, has expressed his desire for the senior team to stay in place.
As a result, Newey’s departure will increase optimism at Mercedes that they will be able to tempt Verstappen away.
Mercedes are pursuing the 26-year-old and hope to secure his signature for the 2025 or, more likely, 2026 season.
The Horner controversy may yet have further ramifications within Red Bull. Insiders say other senior figures in the team are also considering leaving as a consequence.

[Arcades]

A few teams in the past has undervalued Newey’s importance to a team and they came to heavily regret the decision years later.

We will see how this plays out but like everything, no one (or one team) stays at the top forever. As Mercedes has very recently learned and Red Bull also learned far in the past. Red Bull’s undoing could very well be their own doing at this point and plenty of other fans will be happy about it.

Max can go wherever he wants if he chooses. Red Bull on the other hand needs to be taken down a peg, Horner especially.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Max can go wherever he wants if he chooses. Red Bull on the other hand needs to be taken down a peg, Horner especially.

The case of integrity versus Hubris Horner...

"Adrian Newey's Red Bull F1 departure imminent"
Adrian Newey’s departure from Red Bull is expected to be imminent, with sources suggesting an announcement could come ahead of Formula 1’s Miami Grand Prix.
Motorsport.com - Christian Nimmervoll - Apr 30, 2024
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...nent/10605070/
(...)
It is understood that Newey has communicated the reasons for his decision in an internal letter.
A decisive factor is said to have been his broken relationship with team boss Christian Horner in the wake of the power struggle that took place earlier in the year following the allegations made against him by a female employee.
This came after previous tensions, including an interview published at the end of last year where Horner said Newey's role had changed and that "the technical team under him, led by Pierre Wache, is doing a wonderful job so they are not dependent on Adrian."
Horner also said that football club Manchester United did not go under when star striker Eric Cantona left the team.
That interview did not go down well with Newey and was apparently perceived by him as Horner wanting to make himself important and minimise the contribution of others to the team's success.
Newey's wife Amanda even shared the interview on Twitter and commented: "What a load of hogwash."
(...)"

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The case of integrity versus Hubris Horner...

"Adrian Newey's Red Bull F1 departure imminent"
Adrian Newey’s departure from Red Bull is expected to be imminent, with sources suggesting an announcement could come ahead of Formula 1’s Miami Grand Prix.
Motorsport.com - Christian Nimmervoll - Apr 30, 2024
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...nent/10605070/
(...)
It is understood that Newey has communicated the reasons for his decision in an internal letter.
A decisive factor is said to have been his broken relationship with team boss Christian Horner in the wake of the power struggle that took place earlier in the year following the allegations made against him by a female employee.
This came after previous tensions, including an interview published at the end of last year where Horner said Newey's role had changed and that "the technical team under him, led by Pierre Wache, is doing a wonderful job so they are not dependent on Adrian."
Horner also said that football club Manchester United did not go under when star striker Eric Cantona left the team.
That interview did not go down well with Newey and was apparently perceived by him as Horner wanting to make himself important and minimise the contribution of others to the team's success.
Newey's wife Amanda even shared the interview on Twitter and commented: "What a load of hogwash."
(...)"

[M5Rick]

Looks like AN not needed anymore then, if he is leaving that is, and like any other employee who reaches the age of retirement was offered a retirement package and thank you for his many years of service.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Arcades

A few teams in the past has undervalued Newey’s importance to a team and they came to heavily regret the decision years later.

We will see how this plays out but like everything, no one (or one team) stays at the top forever. As Mercedes has very recently learned and Red Bull also learned far in the past. Red Bull’s undoing could very well be their own doing at this point and plenty of other fans will be happy about it.

Max can go wherever he wants if he chooses. Red Bull on the other hand needs to be taken down a peg, Horner especially.

If you read Newey's book, he's quite the narcissist. I'm not saying he doesn't have the credentials or the right to be but I wouldn't rush to say that this is entirely Horner. I remember reading something about Newey getting butthurt when Horner praised Pierre Wache.

[murderspice]

So MAX and HAM at Ferrari? Or is Newey trying to get HAM his 8th?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by murderspice

So MAX and HAM at Ferrari? Or is Newey trying to get HAM his 8th?

I think Newey knows if he goes Ferrari then his designs will ultimately result in Leclerc winning a championship, not Hamilton. I'm not so sure he cares which one of them does it, as long as his car is winning.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by NYG

If you read Newey's book, he's quite the narcissist. I'm not saying he doesn't have the credentials or the right to be but I wouldn't rush to say that this is entirely Horner. I remember reading something about Newey getting butthurt when Horner praised Pierre Wache.

I heard Wache took it completely over from Newey . The RB20 comes for 75% from Wache's side .
Wache is good , really good in the ground effect car. But he learned it from Newey ..

And this just came out ...SENNA !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by NYG

If you read Newey's book, he's quite the narcissist. I'm not saying he doesn't have the credentials or the right to be but I wouldn't rush to say that this is entirely Horner. I remember reading something about Newey getting butthurt when Horner praised Pierre Wache.

Horner's power, Ford PU buck deal and Wache taking over from AN signals the winds of change and in a nutshell MAX will be getting an earful from Jos, again lol ''it's my choice dad'

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I heard Wache took it completely over from Newey . The RB20 comes for 75% from Wache's side .
Wache is good , really good in the ground effect car. But he learned it from Newey ..

And this just came out ...SENNA !

30 years on after San Marino, I just knew the film had to be coming

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

30 years on after San Marino, I just knew the film had to be coming

The gen. information :
Gabriel Leone as Senna .
It's a fictional 'miniseries based on the life of Ayrton Senna da Silva, the Brazilian racing legend who won the Formula 1 World Drivers' Championship 3 times .
Senna will debut on Netflix later in 2024.
Episodes ?

Positive . Senna comes in 6 episodes .

[murderspice]

Fictional seems weird.

[Artemis]

Feb 2024: "The independent investigation into the allegations made against Mr Horner is complete, and Red Bull can confirm that the grievance has been dismissed."

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Feb 2024: "The independent investigation into the allegations made against Mr Horner is complete, and Red Bull can confirm that the grievance has been dismissed."

So what can be understood in plain terms is that AN has been reported to have given notice to leave RBR not because of the allegations against Horner by a woman employee but of the 'dissing' of Newey from Horner in a speech by him at Milton Keynes giving more credit to Wache for the overall success of the RB cars.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The gen. information :
Gabriel Leone as Senna .
It's a fictional 'miniseries based on the life of Ayrton Senna da Silva, the Brazilian racing legend who won the Formula 1 World Drivers' Championship 3 times .
Senna will debut on Netflix later in 2024.
Episodes ?

Positive . Senna comes in 6 episodes .

Next film or series in waiting is the MAX vs LEW one probably be made when LEW retires.

[MontyB1]

[MontyB1]

And Adrian is gone.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/27303...-the-team.html

Official Statement from Oracle Red Bull Racing
"The Team announces that Chief Technical Officer Adrian Newey will leave the Red Bull Technology Group in the first quarter of 2025.
The engineering supremo will step back from Formula 1 design duties to focus on final development and delivery of Red Bull's first hypercar, the hugely anticipated RB17.
He will remain involved in and committed to this exciting project until its completion. We'd like to thank Adrian for our achievements in the time that we have worked together so far. He has been instrumental for us in achieving a remarkable seven Formula One Drivers' and six Constructors' Championship titles - totalling 118 victories and 101 poles including the STR 2007 pole and victory."

[MontyB1]

Adrian Neweys statement on leaving Red Bull from Redbullracing.com

"Ever since I was a young boy, I wanted to be a designer of fast cars. My dream was to be an engineer in Formula One, and I've been lucky enough to make that dream a reality.
For almost two decades it has been my great honour to have played a key role in Red Bull Racing's progress from upstart newcomer to multiple title-winning Team.

However, I feel now is an opportune moment to hand that baton over to others and to seek new challenges for myself. In the interim, the final stages of development of RB17 are upon us, so for the remainder of my time with the Team my focus will lie there.

I would like to thank the many amazing people I have worked with at Red Bull in our journey over the last 18 years for their talent, dedication and hard work. It has been a real privilege, and I am confident that the engineering Team are well prepared for the work going into the final evolution of the car under the four-year period of this regulation set.

On a personal note, I would also like to thank the shareholders, the late Dietrich Mateschitz, Mark Mateschitz and Chalerm Yoovidhya for their unwavering support during my time at Red Bull, and Christian, who has not only been my business partner but also a friend of our respective families. Also, thanks to Oliver Mintzlaff for his stewardship and Eddie Jordan, my close friend and manager."