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12-15-2014, 02:11 PM | #89 | |
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12-15-2014, 02:13 PM | #91 | |
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The lower roofline attracts younger buyers who do not yet need the space of the M4. The people saying that this is Toyota/BMW are forgetting the fact that this Roofline drop is CLEARLY well executed. Look at the fitment, it's flawless. You don't alter and re-sculpt body panels to test for a toyota/bmw joint car. The sculpting has clearly been stylized. This is for a production model. This is actually getting ridiculous how people keep insisting that it cannot be an M2 test. Carbon fiber roof. Double Bubble roof. Carbon fiber hood. Lowered Roof line. Recaro seats. It's development testing for the M2. No question about it. |
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12-15-2014, 02:16 PM | #93 | |
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As for the cost of one-off body panels . . . that's inconsequential. Automakers do it all the time for concept cars and show cars. This one car probably cost 7 figures to make, so using a carbon fiber roof or hood to get the CoG right is no big deal. It's a Chassis Mule for the BMW/Toyota joint venture or another unknown sports car.
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12-15-2014, 02:19 PM | #97 | |
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To me, it's clear as day, and I understand what others are saying, but to put it bluntly I think they're completely wrong. A company does not re-design a car's roofline like that for nothing. IT IS NOT A COINCIDENCE that the lower roofline is being tested with 4 (YES, FOUR) separate design choices that everyone was speculating about the M2. Carbon Fiber roof. Double Bubble roof. Recaro Sport seats. Carbon Fiber hood. And now we see a suspicious M235i testing with these things equipped, and everyone is screaming Toyota/BMW sports car! Ridiculous. From an engineers perspective. That car, with that well exectuted roof line, is NOT a test mule for a different car. Everything flows specifically with the 2 series body. This is for the M2. Carbon fiber parts all over a suspicious 2 series and here we are, listening to people yell about how it's not an M2 because of the lowered roof line. Ugh. Enough ranting for the day. |
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12-15-2014, 02:19 PM | #98 | |
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12-15-2014, 02:22 PM | #99 |
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Holy crap, a CF roof! It's happening after all.
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12-15-2014, 02:27 PM | #100 | |
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2. It's too late in the development cycle for these changes to be made to the M2. The final prototypes have been on the road for months now with the production body work. The car launches next fall, that means the car will basically be production ready by spring at the latest. If this were the M2, we would have seen this car a year ago, and the other prototypes would already have this body work. 3. It's also much shorter than an M235i. This, along with the chopped roof, would basically force a completely new vehicle in order to fit passengers properly. 4. It doesn't have wide fenders or other M body work. If they were going to do all the body work for the roof and wheelbase, they would have included all the M body work. 5. Race car, CSL, GTS versions would not be developed using the stock M235i body work at this point. They would either be using the same M2 mules as the other ones we've seen or they would wait for the production car to launch and modify one of those. 6. Early chassis mules almost always have aftermarket Recaro seats along with a cage and harnesses for safety reasons. Several early M3/M4 prototypes had them as well. I work in the auto industry. I'm telling you there is no chance that this is an M2 mule.
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12-15-2014, 02:29 PM | #101 |
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It is possible that the curvature/size of the roof panel (as well as the hood) is compatible with the current 2-series, despite the test mule's lower roof line. However, I can't tell definitively from the photos whether or not this is true.
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12-15-2014, 02:35 PM | #102 | |
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I'm willing to bet that this is NOT the M2. Makes 0 sense to modify the wheel base and roof line of the car for an M2 that might account for 1/5 of the sales of the 2 series (consider that Europe gets diesel cars). Not to mention we've already seen 3 prototypes (the black, white and then most recently the red one) that showed wider arches to accommodate M3/4 running gear. So all of a sudden, they went backwards and to an M235i style components? Makes no sense. Not to mention, on the red car they've more or less shown the front end of the car (bumper), and now all of a sudden they've gone back? Think about BMW's Roadster, going all the way back to the 60s. Shorter rear end, longish front end. If you look from the character line down, you can almost see roadster proportions if you ignore the rear bumper skin. Lastly: The 2er has already limited rear legroom. BMW is not going to shorten the wheelbase even more to make it essentially a 2 seater (again showing that this is a completely different project). My 2 cents. Having said that, this kind of gives me hope that the M2 will get CF roof and hood. I'm really hopefully it does. P.S. There are plenty of instances of manufacturers testing brand new platform on a current gen body FYI. Not that unheard of.
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12-15-2014, 02:36 PM | #103 |
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Can this be a new 2/M2 while the current one with long wheelbase for 2GC?
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12-15-2014, 02:43 PM | #105 |
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Welcome back to the BMW Z3.
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12-15-2014, 02:44 PM | #106 |
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THANK YOU.
Enough with this ridiculous M2 arguing.
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12-15-2014, 02:47 PM | #107 | ||
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You may be an engineer, and I am as well, but just because the car has some awesome panel gaps does not mean it's production ready. Look at any history of new models. Any time a new platform is launched, virtually 100% of the time it shows up as a mule that looks like a mutant version of a current production car. Then, once it's closer to production, and they actually have started making the true production body in white, then it gets camouflage. Usually the "mule" version is a few years out, maybe 3, certainly not a model that's coming out next year. The production times for the tooling, etc., are just too long for that. It's a mule for something completely different. |
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12-15-2014, 02:50 PM | #109 |
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It does show you that an M2 with CFRP roof is completely feasible.
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12-15-2014, 02:54 PM | #110 |
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This is a good mystery. We've already seen numerous M2 mules. It doesn't make sense to me that they would be that far into developing the M2 then make a huge change like this. The proportions appear the same in the front and back ends, it's the 6 or so inches chopped from between the back end of the door and the front of the rear wheel that have changed...along with the significantly dropped roofline.
To me those changes suggest a roadster. We lose the rear seat, and we have a much shorter windshield/lower roof. This fits the character of the next Z. But still, why they would pair that development with a non convertible body is odd. Maybe BMW is happy enough with the 2 series chassis that they are using that as the basis for the next Z? Maybe the roof and hood are not the only parts with CFRP? Maybe the chassis is CFRP as well. In that case we have a much lighter next gen Z...just what all of us have been asking for. Bottom line, if I was a betting man my money would go with the next Z. |
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