Active shooter, San Bernardino CA. Multiple fatalities.

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by Lups

I'm willing to bet 5 dollars (cad) that in a year all those Muslims will kill less people in Canada than toddlers will shoot here in the USA.

Would you take that bet on France as well?

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by C5driver

And the US has no gun control laws? What about France?

These are rhetorical questions, BTW. I'm not engaging anyone in an argument that, unfortunately, we seem to be having over and over.




And if this is your only metric for standard of living, so be it. We have choices in this world and I choose to live in the US.

France... what about Mexico?

I was watching a documentary type show a few weeks ago and each hour long episode was about mass shootings and how governments deal with those issues. Not one episode was about a US based mass shooting. I'm amazed at how little our media reports on gun violence in other countries when nearly ALL US gun violence is reported the world over. This show highlighted a lot of crap that we never get wind of... we're talking 10 Pakistani nationals laying down a 3 day long siege in India where about 165 people were killed and over 300 were wounded. Or were a theater in Russia was taken hostage with guns and bombs and over 100 people were killed. All of this is post 9/11 as well and we don't get a peep of this crap over US media.

I think there is a huge disparity between the average American's mind set and the mind set of just about any other world citizen. We're just different, our culture is different. And very few Americans or other world citizens will ever experience the difference. Because like it was mentioned, we all stick to what we know and are comfortable with.

I've had a house guest for the last month and she's lived in Cali, Texas, Ga, Hawaii, Australia, Germany, Belgium, Spain, China and currently lives in New Zealand. She travels the world over about 4 months of each year. She tells me that just about every time she travels outside of the US she gets security warnings to be cautious and leery of strange occurrences. She never gets a security warning when traveling to different places in the US. She said that she feels as secure in New Zealand as she does in the US, but far less safe in all other places she's lived and currently travels through. She also says that no matter what country she's in, their media reports on just about any violence in the US that is reported in the US on a national level.

I'm also beginning to realize that there are individuals, groups of people, even entire countries of people who would NOT rather have the right to selfdefense with a gun or otherwise. There are millions of people in this world who for generations have been under their government's thumb. And because of this they are used to depending on them for safety. When their government gets crazy, they simply comply or beg for mercy. When a force like ISIS rolls in, they simply beg for mercy and accept their fate. This is so foreign for the majority of US citizens it's difficult to even comprehend. But that's reality for many of our foreign brothers and sisters. It's really sad, especially since that particular mind set seems to draw in power hungry leaders, groups, etc... and does nothing for their individual right to live, fight to live or even fight to just survive.

So i'm beginning to understand that some of the wounded or departed in France, India, and even some in the US would prefer their government keep them safe. Thankfully, in the US that is a choice you actually get to make. In many other places, you have no choice. I am very thankful that i know that my safety is my responsibility. Because whether or not my government and local law enforcement consider it their responsibility, they can not be everywhere all the time. They CAN NOT protect everyone. Therefore, I will choose to take the steps necessary to be able to protect myself and i will arm myself with tools that will give me at least a fighting chance to survive a mass shooting or terrorist attack. No matter how infinitesimally small the odds are that i'll be involved in either.

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Yup they recorded this shit.

At least they got some good evidence.....hopefully this doesn't get turned into jihadi propaganda.....these people love that sh!?

[Axius]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

They are letting in people from a conflict zone with virtually no real screening process. Yeah of course ISIS is not taking advantage of that.

I don't know that Canada would be a target for ISIS. Not because of the fact that it's an easy target, but I don't know what they would get out of stirring shit up in Canada.


They're already fucking with the key players in the world, so I guess they could always feel the need to add more. Guess it kind of depends on what they preach to these people who join and what their actual end target is.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

At least they got some good evidence.....hopefully this doesn't get turned into jihadi propaganda.....these people love that sh!?

I said earlier they might have uploaded that shit already and ISIS is making their next feature film.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

Would you take that bet on France as well?

Probably.

I'd also bet that terrorists will kill this year globally less folks than the normal folks will here in the states.

[UncleWede]

I'm still having some issues with the premeditated Jihadist angle.

They dropped the baby off at grandma's house like they always do.

I have never tried myself, so can't say. But just how long does it take to make 3 pipe bombs incorrectly? None of the three blew up until the bomb squad detonated them in a controlled fashion.

If the guns were bought 4 years ago, it really doesn't take that much to convert to full auto. I imagine there are more than a few regulars here in OT who have the knowledge, skill, parts, and probably guns to do the same, ASSuming they haven't already. No need to raise your hands, you know I know who you are.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I'm still having some issues with the premeditated Jihadist angle.

They dropped the baby off at grandma's house like they always do.

I have never tried myself, so can't say. But just how long does it take to make 3 pipe bombs incorrectly? None of the three blew up until the bomb squad detonated them in a controlled fashion.

If the guns were bought 4 years ago, it really doesn't take that much to convert to full auto. I imagine there are more than a few regulars here in OT who have the knowledge, skill, parts, and probably guns to do the same, ASSuming they haven't already. No need to raise your hands, you know I know who you are.

Glad to raise my hand. But then i abide by our current gun laws and i also pay attention to that one pesky law that says murder is illegal.

If i'm honest, i wouldn't murder anyone if it were legal. Maybe that has something to do with it......

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by Lups

Probably.

I'd also bet that terrorists will kill this year globally less folks than the normal folks will here in the states.

That's a pretty easy bet.

[imserious]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I said earlier they might have uploaded that shit already and ISIS is making their next feature film.

That's probably what they were doing back at home.

If this is confirmed terrorism, which seems likely given at least the pre-meditated bombs and body cameras, this is considered the FBI's worst case scenario.

US born Muslims that are radicalized and decide to execute jihad independently. This kind of organic terrorism is most difficult to combat because it is not really organized, no command and control structure to attack.

The fact that this guy was US born, just had a baby, had no Facebook or Twitter trail, was not on the FBI watch list... how many of these guys could there be?

It is easy to defeat a government, harder to defeat an ideology. To put it broadly we need to deal with Islam. Either Muslims need to join the fight visibly and lead a counter-jihad movement (some believe Islam is about peace right?) or we need to consider less PC options for their non-tolerant religion.

I was really happy to see the Islamic leaders and the family speak up yesterday. We need MORE of that. It can't be ISIS against the white devil. It must be ISIS against true Islam. We need to change the dialogue.

[Axius]

Originally Posted by Lups

Probably.

I'd also bet that terrorists will kill this year globally less folks than the normal folks will here in the states.

This year as in 2015 or 2016? Normal folks like what, car crashes, manslaughter cases, murders or just normal folk malicious murder?


I mean, just the other week they killed off something like 100 of their own members, so we have to take into account all their own people they kill, people trying to leave the state, as well as the attacks in other countries.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Lups

Probably.

I'd also bet that terrorists will kill this year globally less folks than the normal folks will here in the states.

Dumbest shit I heard all day.. Of course there will be more violent deaths across the 50 states from violence that has nothing to do with Islam. I mean that's just pure statistics. Over 2000 people died on 911 due to the Jihadist attack. Shit 2000 deaths, that like what Chicago calls spring cleaning and they even banned guns in the city.

[UncleWede]

Can we at least leave the gang murders in Chicago out of the count?

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by Lups

Probably.

Well I hope your half-hearted "probably" turns out to be true, but I have my doubts given the current environment.

Originally Posted by Lups

I'd also bet that terrorists will kill this year globally less folks than the normal folks will here in the states.

Well between Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Qaeda, and several other groups, you've already lost that bet.

It's also truly a wonder how, if America is such a dangerous place as you seem to be implying, why people and immigrants are still trying to come here by the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, every year. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with all the violence and instability that exists in much of the world....

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Dumbest shit I heard all day.. Of course there will be more violent deaths across the 50 states from violence that has nothing to do with Islam. I mean that's just pure statistics. Over 2000 people died on 911 due to the Jihadist attack. Shit 2000 deaths, that like what Chicago calls spring cleaning and they even banned guns in the city.

Well, then we better be really scared of the Muslims who move to Canada, a country that will give them a fresh start, education and healthcare. It really sounds like they will be the ones to end me.

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Dumbest shit I heard all day.. Of course there will be more violent deaths across the 50 states from violence that has nothing to do with Islam. I mean that's just pure statistics. Over 2000 people died on 911 due to the Jihadist attack. Shit 2000 deaths, that like what Chicago calls spring cleaning and they even banned guns in the city.

I never thought Chicago was so bloody!

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I'm still having some issues with the premeditated Jihadist angle.

They dropped the baby off at grandma's house like they always do.

I have never tried myself, so can't say. But just how long does it take to make 3 pipe bombs incorrectly? None of the three blew up until the bomb squad detonated them in a controlled fashion.

If the guns were bought 4 years ago, it really doesn't take that much to convert to full auto. I imagine there are more than a few regulars here in OT who have the knowledge, skill, parts, and probably guns to do the same, ASSuming they haven't already. No need to raise your hands, you know I know who you are.

I can understand your point but there are some issues here. They had pipe bombs and tactical gear. I can understand storming out and then coming back with a rifle and blasting the joint but they put on gear, grabbed the pipe bombs, and put on GoPros. Why the GoPros unless they wanted to document the event..

[V1.47fan]

[Axius]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

I never thought Chicago was so bloody!

St. Louis is even worse, they just took over Detroit at 50 per 100k people, where Detroit is at 44 per 100k people.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

I never thought Chicago was so bloody!

I'm exaggerating.. Slightly

Here is the year to date for Chicago


Year To Date
Shot & Killed: 412
Shot & Wounded: 2352
Total Shot: 2764
Total Homicides: 466

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Lups

Well, then we better be really scared of the Muslims who move to Canada, a country that will give them a fresh start, education and healthcare. It really sounds like they will be the ones to end me.

I'm looking from the US perspective. We have plenty of homeless (especially Vets) who can use a hand up but Obama would rather import more mouths to feed then to help his own people.

Now let's look at France. The Muslims terrorist there where all European born. So they had free healthcare and all that good stuff yet they still decided to go for the "40 virgins" options. A dog will not bite the hand that feeds him but a human will rip your fucking head off if it fits his narrative, no matter how well you provide for him.

Also why is it that none of the rich Arab countries are willing to take their own brothers and sisters in? Makes you think...

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

France... what about Mexico?

Yeah, I said that.

The other stuff you posted is just a fundamental difference between sides and no amount of bandwidth will change either side.