M Sport package considered an "M" car?

[DanG]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Big brakes are of course a performance option.

In my view, 'M cars' should have a specific set of performance features:

- (semi) floating disc brakes
- LSD
- controversial one: S designated performance engine.

That last one is very controversial. Because the 1M, imho one of the greatest M cars, has an N54 engine.
Also, the difference between S and M/N/B engines gets smaller and smaller.
And M sport cars (m240i etc) are more and more available with proper LSD's (torque vectoring)
They also get better and better brakes, although they still don't have semi floating rotors I believe.

My N55 M2 is a real M car. The engine has upgrades that the M235i didn’t have. It is in the same class as the N54 1M.

[blackbird_f32]

No, they are not. But the older m cars get walked by most new m sport cars anyway.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by para38super

I would never remove them. I also own Challenger. Would I remove RT or SRT because I don't have the hellcat engine, definitely not. Dodge labels them depending on the specs. Nobody complains about a Durango having the badge. I guess Dodge guys are not as uptight about a badge.

Oh no, they are. I came from that world to this world. You should see the purse swinging that ensues when a scat pack owner asks if his car is an "SRT" since it says "powered by SRT" on the engine cover. LoL

[para38super]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Oh no, they are. I came from that world to this world. You should see the purse swinging that ensues when a scat pack owner asks if his car is an "SRT" since it says "powered by SRT" on the engine cover. LoL

Good call! I forgot about the scat pack! Those poor guys get it just as bad! I stand corrected... Lol

[RugbyBro]

Who cares what’s an M car or not - BMW clearly doesn’t, so we all shouldn’t either. If someone with a F32 wants to slap on a M badge or someone buys a M40i, then they can have at it - doesn’t bother me cause at the end of the day I bought my car for S55, DCT, and the unique chassis... not cause of a badge. In fact, the most offended person I ever ran into was the finance guy when I bought the car after trying to convince me that M cars are such unicorns and if I didn’t buy the extended warranty the car would ruin me financially with items like $5,000 brakes... to which I flat out told him “it’s JUST a car” and quoted the actual price of rotors/pads off FCP euro

[Jcoop901]

[dscabra]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Who cares what’s an M car or not - BMW clearly doesn’t, so we all shouldn’t either. If someone with a F32 wants to slap on a M badge or someone buys a M40i, then they can have at it - doesn’t bother me cause at the end of the day I bought my car for S55, DCT, and the unique chassis... not cause of a badge. In fact, the most offended person I ever ran into was the finance guy when I bought the car after trying to convince me that M cars are such unicorns and if I didn’t buy the extended warranty the car would ruin me financially with items like $5,000 brakes... to which I flat out told him “it’s JUST a car” and quoted the actual price of rotors/pads off FCP euro

Same experience when the dealership tried to sell me the maintenance package on my used G30. The look on they guy's face when I said I do my own maintenance was priceless. The pitch continued until I showed him this picture of the car I built in my shop and asked him if he felt that changing the oil on the BMW would be more difficult than building a car.



Or if servicing the //M brakes were any different than servicing these (aside from unplugging and plugging in new wear sensors):



At least on the BMW you don't need to assemble and safety wire the rotors, or maybe you do on a "real" //M? Parts is parts!

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Winter.M3

Kinda controversial but I couldn't find anyone else's input. I see 3 series with the M sport package with M badges, M stickered calipers, M color stripes, etc. In my opinion, it's excessive.

Now, would you consider this upbadging? I would say yes, but I'm not sure. What's your opinion?

However; I still think it's cool to an extent to do it to some BMWs, especially if you have some performance mods. So don't get me wrong there.

In the US market BMW has always had some package which included the "//M" logo but it was never used to denote a model that wasn't a true M-car. For example the E46ZHP was sold as having the performance package and M-logos appeared on the wheels and shifter. The bumper was called "M-Tech" in ROW. The vehicle was still only badged as a 330i.

The change in model naming is more the result of competitors like Audi (i.e. S, RS, etc) as well as more 3-series models. BMW recognized that there was demand for more M-variants. IMO the test market was the E46 M3 CSL (Euro only) & M3 Competition. The segment expanded upward with the addition of the GTS for the E90. So like Audi BMW also expanded the naming down market.

[Russ103]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

When you see someone in a new Ferrari I'm sure you're not thinking "wow that guy looks really cool". You're thinking that guy doesn't deserve it and he looks like a douche bag. The same thing that the guy with the civic thinks about you when you fly by in the "M".

That's what jealous miserable douche bags think.

[Glenn McF]

I have a 2019 540i M sport, my first BMW. I didn’t know what an M car was when I bought mine because I knew what I could afford and M cars didn’t fit that requirement, so I didn't bother with them. I now understand the difference and clearly they are different, I understand that my M Sport is not an M. I wish it was, but I won’t say it is. Having said that, I admit I did enjoy the moment when a know it all friend quietly pointed out the M sport badging to his wife and told her what an amazing thing it was that I had bought an M car!

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by timothy2001

Correct you are....still a poser.

So, if BMW issued an M340 with that badge you are a poser?
What do you suggest? Debadge the vehicle so you can be happy?

BMW should have designate a diferent letter for the sport packages vehicles. It is not the owner’s fault that BMW badged a sport package under M badge. Keep in mind though that these vehicles still have several components that make them different though.

Now, you expect someone to debadge the vehicle, change the door sills, wheels, steering wheel, calipers or even M seatbelts just so you can feel unique?
I don’t thing that milking the M badge was a good strategy as BMW could very well name this sporty niche differently; but I also believe that your statement is condescending.

BMW called it an M package and put the badge? Yes. Good! Carry on then...
A conosseur knows the difference.
In fact, probably this controversial front grill just puts this argument to rest as the vehicles are different now.

[timothy2001]

This thread:

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by snareman

I've owned both. My 435 with the M performance package definitely had some more sporty looks compared to the regular 4 series, but it certainly drove nothing like an M. Night and day difference. When I had it I never thought it was an M and owning several M's now I don't harbor any ill will towards BMW for putting it on there or for the people that have them. Certainly doesn't affect me if someone else is driving around with an M on their car, even if it is the elusive M528i (seen at the Marriott in Greenville when I did my PCD)

What pisses me off almost as much as the fake badging is the mismatching font between the M and numbered badging. It really bother my OCD, like if you're gonna fake it, at least try to fake it better.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by DanG

My N55 M2 is a real M car. The engine has upgrades that the M235i didn’t have. It is in the same class as the N54 1M.

Actually it's more afaik. The N55 as it sits in the M2 has actually different partnumbers for key components compared to the m235i N55 (turbo, intercooler: different partnumbers). I don't know exactly what is different, but they are different parts.

For the 1M, that engine (N54) was exactly the same as found in other models (z4 etc). And yet the 1M is one of the greatest M cars imho. Certainly in the era after the e46 M3 CSL.

But on another note, I think a M235i or G29 Z4 M40i are more M cars than a X5M.
Suggesting that a big high heavy SUV has motorsport pedigree is.....pretty far fetched.

[GORDON.M3]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Actually it's more afaik. The N55 as it sits in the M2 has actually different partnumbers for key components compared to the m235i N55 (turbo, intercooler: different partnumbers). I don't know exactly what is different, but they are different parts.

For the 1M, that engine (N54) was exactly the same as found in other models (z4 etc). And yet the 1M is one of the greatest M cars imho. Certainly in the era after the e46 M3 CSL.

But on another note, I think a M235i or G29 Z4 M40i are more M cars than a X5M.
Suggesting that a big high heavy SUV has motorsport pedigree is.....pretty far fetched.

And if I'm not mistaken the N55 in the M2 has more forged components than the regular N55 found in the M235i/n55 platform cars.

[Dagamus_NM]

I have had plenty of M sport cars. Never thought any were an M. But they do look and handle better than their non-sport counterparts.

The one thing I wish my M sport 550i had is a LSD. I wouldn't mind having the turbos off of the m5 either. I get that they need to save some things for the m5 but not having an LSD makes it hard to put the power down to the wheels.

[Tacoma]

How did we get to 5 pages of this? The first 3 replies saying No No No should've ended the thread on page 1. So let's try this again...

For cars, the only true M models start with the letter M followed by a number, like M2, M3, M4, M5, M8. That's it. Anything else that has more than 1 number after the M, like the M340i or M850i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.

For SUV's, the only true M models start with the model names themselves followed by a singular letter M, like X3 M, X4 M, X5 M, X6 M. That's it. Anything else that has one or more numbers after the M, like the X4 M40i or X6 M50i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

What pisses me off almost as much as the fake badging is the mismatching font

Haha this! I get more annoyed at the poor implementation of a badge more than the badge itself

[HighlandPete]

Reading some of the comments on here, it's time many forum members read a bit of the BMW heritage, and the use of the 'M'.

One of my colleagues was driving a factory built E12 "M535i" back in the early 1980's. We had to wait for the E28 5-series before we had the first M5.

Read how the first "M535i" came about....

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

How did we get to 5 pages of this? The first 3 replies saying No No No should've ended the thread on page 1. So let's try this again...

For cars, the only true M models start with the letter M followed by a number, like M2, M3, M4, M5, M8. That's it. Anything else that has more than 1 number after the M, like the M340i or M850i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.

For SUV's, the only true M models start with the model names themselves followed by a singular letter M, like X3 M, X4 M, X5 M, X6 M. That's it. Anything else that has one or more numbers after the M, like the X4 M40i or X6 M50i, are not true M models but just regular BMW's with some M parts.

How about E31 850CSI or E24 M635CSI ??? Not a real M car?

[jmg]

One of the most satisfying parts about driving an M car is rolling next to a fake badged car. I'd hate to feel cuckolded by the real deal while pretending to be something I'm not. I mean, even the risk of being humiliated like that should be enough to discourage fake-badgers.

They think they're Vin, but they're actually Jesse.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Winter.M3

Kinda controversial but I couldn't find anyone else's input. I see 3 series with the M sport package with M badges, M stickered calipers, M color stripes, etc. In my opinion, it's excessive.

Now, would you consider this upbadging? I would say yes, but I'm not sure. What's your opinion?

However; I still think it's cool to an extent to do it to some BMWs, especially if you have some performance mods. So don't get me wrong there.

Your real question is; what makes an M-car an M-Car?

The answer isn't an "S" code on the engine, as most would have you believe. It's simply a "performance model", not just some performance bits.

So it looks like this.

240 = standard road car.
M240 = standard road car with increased performance by virtue of higher performance M parts.
M2 = M-Car

A real M-Car turns out to be ANY collection of M bits that BMW decides makes it an M-Car, regardless of what anyone else says, since they invented it.