Highland park IL 4th of July parade shooting

[Germanauto]

Seems there's really no solution for this. I'm not pro-gun or anti-gun, I see both sides of the fence. I just think the easy access to guns + societal mental health degradation the past 25-30 yrs is going to ensure mass shootings continue on.

As I've gotten older and entered my professional career, it's really become evident to me that American society is a very sick and unhappy place. Social isolation, high cost of living, high debt burden, lack of stable households, normalization of violence in media, divisive news media/partisan politics, social media have all led to this.

I'm proud to be American and cherish all the good aspects of our society. And from a career perspective, this is where I'd earn the most and pay the least in taxes. But I do spend a lot of time in Canada and Europe, and think we could learn something from those societies culturally.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

…..and you wouldn't be wrong. Every behavioral issue is now given an alphabet diagnosis and prescribed some sort of medication to combat the issue. I have lost track of the acronyms and the long list of drugs prescribed (…e.g….Xanax, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Celexa, Haldol, etc.). Literally every teenager I run into is on some prescribed anti-depressant, anti-anxiety or psych medication.

So in all these mass shootings with the assault weapons, which medications are, or are not, responsible? You hit the general talking points of the alt right news outlets. Can you get into specifics?

[floridaorange]

The internet opened up pandora's box. The majority of society simply lack the necessary critical thinking skills required to use social media and the internet. Humans are more complex than the most complex car motor or swiss watch... if humans are off balance things can get messy quick. Balancing work, mental health, spiritual life, social life, sexuality and and their physical health (since food has become weaponized by no longer being natural) is tough in an ever increasingly sophisticated society. Meanwhile, there are some young lads that have bad parents & get to see the lives of their peers who have good parents, sprinkle mental health issues on top and add pornography and highly realistic first man shooter game play coupled with social interaction with other lost souls, remove the church completely and here we are.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

So in all these mass shootings with the assault weapons, which medications are, or are not, responsible? You hit the general talking points of the alt right news outlets. Can you get into specifics?

It is not simply an alt-right talking point (….at least not one without merit). It's an observation that anybody who is objective and paying attention will notice. I'm not sure how old you are, but I imagine you could list a number of people in your life (…e.g….friends, family and acquaintances) who are labeled ADHD, ADD, ODD, etc. and on some prescribed medication to address what has been deemed an issue.

I haven't kept a running tally following each incident, but if we look at Ramos, he was a cutter on anti-depressants. Which drug(s) he was prescribed or which drugs he had access to in an attempt to address his instability is anybody's guess.

[OkieSnuffBox]

I'll try to catch up later, currently working on all the emails and slack stuff.

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

His Dad....? But he's innocent, just ask him:

"The father of the alleged Highland Park parade shooter has told ABC News that he is not culpable in the Independence Day attack, in spite of having signed a consent form for his son to apply for gun ownership.

“I had no -- not an inkling, warning -- that this was going to happen,” Bobby Crimo Jr. told ABC News about the Fourth of July attack his son, Robert “Bobby” Crimo III, allegedly carried out in Highland Park, Illinois. “I am just shocked.”

Crimo claims both he and his wife asked their son just days before if he had any plans for the holiday. “He said ‘no.’ That was it,” Crimo recalled."

What a fucking douchebag - typical clueless parent who denies any responsibility or culpability. Here's where society is going wrong folks, right here.

Oh, there's a bit more to this article:

"Crimo says he never saw his son as a danger to anyone, but authorities recently disclosed at least one past instance in which his son allegedly threatened violence. In 2019, police in Highland Park confiscated 16 knives, a dagger and a sword from the suspect’s home after a family member called claiming he “was going to kill everyone.”"


But neither parent chose to press charges. Arrest them both too, I say.

You're half-right here, definitely a douchebag, but not clueless. He just doesn't want any blame assigned to him.

What's the term used when a spouse is doing something illegal, but they can claim they didn't know the person was leading a double-life.

Plausible deniability. But let's be real, if your spouse was Henry Hill, you'd know something untoward was going on.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

If you can obtain a CCW where you live, I would advise you to do it. It is better to have a firearm and not need it than the converse. I don't even walk to the mailbox without a pistol with me. I deal with the craziness so much on a weekly basis that I would be doing myself a huge disservice by failing to prepare. I do not want to get caught with my pants down………so to speak.

This is a bonkers assessment to me. I know you're an LEO (my brother did undercover work, my mother worked for the district attorney here, so I'm not ignorant to risks), but I grew up working in neighborhoods many people are afraid to drive through. As a High School kid, had a knife pulled on me, I still don't feel the need to carry a gun.

I suspect many people confuse possibility with probability. Just because something can happen, doesn't mean it's likely to happen.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'll try to catch up later, currently working on all the emails and slack stuff.

You're half-right here, definitely a douchebag, but not clueless. He just doesn't want any blame assigned to him.

What's the term used when a spouse is doing something illegal, but they can claim they didn't know the person was leading a double-life.

Plausible deniability. But let's be real, if your spouse was Henry Hill, you'd know something untoward was going on.

This is a bonkers assessment to me. I know you're an LEO (my brother did undercover work, my mother worked for the district attorney here, so I'm not ignorant to risks), but I grew up working in neighborhoods many people are afraid to drive through. As a High School kid, had a knife pulled on me, I still don't feel the need to carry a gun.

I suspect many people confuse possibility with probability. Just because something can happen, doesn't mean it's likely to happen.

Thankfully you're not forced to carry if you don't desire to. To each their own.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Thankfully you're not forced to carry if you don't desire to. To each their own.

Very true, what is or isn't in the house. I won't tell anyone, but you'll meet our 85lb pit bull first.

I have no problems with people having weapons, it's more the mindset. There are a lot of people that are very scared about any and everything, I don't think that's a good mindset.

We know how ridiculously easy it to get a CCL, and now many states allow open carry. We also know how much training LEO's do and how often they miss, I think it's reasonable to want people to have more training before being allowed to carry.

I'll leave it at that, since I don't want the thread to get Zucc'd

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Very true, what is or isn't in the house. I won't tell anyone, but you'll meet our 85lb pit bull first.

I have no problems with people having weapons, it's more the mindset. There are a lot of people that are very scared about any and everything, I don't think that's a good mindset.

We know how ridiculously easy it to get a CCL, and now many states allow open carry. We also know how much training LEO's do and how often they miss, I think it's reasonable to want people to have more training before being allowed to carry.

I'll leave it at that, since I don't want the thread to get Zucc'd

I agree with you. Being worried about every second of the day and refusing to enjoy your life is a very unhealthy mindset indeed, but I also believe you (..speaking generally) are your first line of defense. Not law enforcement. Not anybody else. If you can't protect yourself, the chances are not statistically in your favor should you encounter somebody intent on harming you.

It is not "ridiculously easy" to obtain a CCW everywhere. Surely not in places like California and New York.

As far as training, the onus is on the individual, LEO or otherwise (…and unless the LEO is a "gun person", they aren't shooting much beyond the required qualification(s), hence why you see examples of poor shooters). Some arbitrary pre-CCW training guideline (…beyond what is already required; the requirement likely varies from state to state) is a great talking point, but in the practical it is useless. Shooting is a perishable skill. If you train, you will remain efficient. If you do not, well……….

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I agree with you. Being worried about every second of the day and refusing to enjoy your life is a very unhealthy mindset indeed, but I also believe you (..speaking generally) are your first line of defense. Not law enforcement. Not anybody else. If you can't protect yourself, the chances are not statistically in your favor should you encounter somebody intent on harming you.

It is not "ridiculously easy" to obtain a CCW everywhere. Surely not in places like California and New York.

As far as training, the onus is on the individual, LEO or otherwise (…and unless the LEO is a "gun person", they aren't shooting much beyond the required qualification(s), hence why you see examples of poor shooters). Some arbitrary pre-CCW training guideline (…beyond what is already required; the requirement likely varies from state to state) is a great talking point, but in the practical it is useless. Shooting is a perishable skill. If you train, you will remain efficient. If you do not, well……….

Is t this the difference between your handgun argument and the AR? I mean, a few of these fucking assholes who shot these kids up, bought the gun a day or 2 before. I highly doubt they did ANY training prior to mass murdering school kids. If they bought a hand gun 2 days before, I feel the loss of kids would be greatly less. How hard can it be to have an AR with 30 round mags and just start spraying everywhere? I own a shotgun for home. That's it. I see points from both sides of this argument. I just can't understand how someone can just walk in and buy this kind of weapon? I get it with everyone's right and this and that. I just think with what's going on, some kind of short waiting period and some type of other background check is not asking to much. There is no easy answer to this issue unfortunately

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Is t this the difference between your handgun argument and the AR? I mean, a few of these fucking assholes who shot these kids up, bought the gun a day or 2 before. I highly doubt they did ANY training prior to mass murdering school kids. If they bought a hand gun 2 days before, I feel the loss of kids would be greatly less. How hard can it be to have an AR with 30 round mags and just start spraying everywhere? I own a shotgun for home. That's it. I see points from both sides of this argument. I just can't understand how someone can just walk in and buy this kind of weapon? I get it with everyone's right and this and that. I just think with what's going on, some kind of short waiting period and some type of other background check is not asking to much. There is no easy answer to this issue unfortunately

There is already a 10-day waiting period in California as well as a background check (…which is absolutely reasonable). I am not sure about the waiting period requirements in every other state, but the DOJ background check is nationwide.

The problem is that mental health records are not cross-referenced and not all mental health issues are documented. If the person has never been clinically diagnosed, there will be no official record(s).

P.S. Magazine size isn't the issue. You can utilize a 30-round mag or even a high capacity drum in a handgun. The Glock is widely popular, easily modified, and there are plenty of peripheral/accessory options (…some that even convert a Glock into a rifle-style weapon in terms of ergonomics). It is not uncommon to come across semi-automatic Glocks converted to full automatic firing.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There is already a 10-day waiting period in California as well as a background check (…which is absolutely reasonable). I am not sure about the waiting period requirements in every other state, but the DOJ background check is nationwide.

The problem is that mental health records are not cross-referenced and not all mental health issues are documented. If the person has never been clinically diagnosed, there will be no official record(s).

P.S. Magazine size isn't the issue. You can utilize a 30-round mag or even a high capacity drum in a handgun. The Glock is widely popular, easily modified, and there are plenty of peripheral/accessory options (…some that even convert a Glock into a rifle-style weapon in terms of ergonomics).

Guess we need the Akron cops to protect schools. Maybe they would have gone in and shot that dude 60 times instead of hanging out in the hallways🤷🏽*♂️

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

Guess we need the Akron cops to protect schools. Maybe they would have gone in and shot that dude 60 times instead of hanging out in the hallways🤷🏽*♂️

You do realize that it is not an abnormal occurrence for 60+ rounds to be expended when 4-5 officers shoot at the same threat, right? My duty weapon has 18 rounds when hot, so if me and four of my partners were to shoot at a suspect, there would be nearly 100 rounds expended (…and maybe 10-15 of those rounds would actually hit the suspect, if we're lucky). This isn't the movies where you shoot twice and the suspect keels over. I've seen suspects survive 8-rounds plus a bite from the dog. They are like roaches.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You do realize that it is not an abnormal occurrence for 60+ rounds to be fired when 4-5 officers shoot, right? My duty weapon has 18 rounds when hot, so if me and four of my partners were to shoot at a suspect, there would be nearly 100 rounds expended (…and maybe 10-15 of those rounds would actually hit the suspect, if we're lucky). This isn't the movies where you shoot twice and the suspect keels over. I've seen suspects survive 8-rounds plus a bite from the dog. They are like roaches.

My comment was more about the bitch ass cops that did nothing for the kids. Not the 60 rounds they put into a guys back. Just saying

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

My comment was more about the bitch ass cops that did nothing for the kids. Not the 60 rounds they put into a guys back. Just saying

We already know that while the officers were in the hallway, there was no shooting taking place (….he had already killed the children) AND they didn't know there were children in the room with the suspect. There was no radio communication in the hallway.

That said, the situation was horrible and a lot of balls were dropped by many different people, law enforcement and civilian.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by sedan_clan

we already know that while the officers were in the hallway, there was no shooting taking place (….he had already killed the children) and they didn't know there were children in the room with the suspect.

👍🏼

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

👍🏼

Are you absolutely sure earlier intervention wouldn't have saved some children, the ones already wounded? The classroom door was not locked……..

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Are you absolutely sure earlier intervention wouldn't have saved some children, the ones already wounded? The classroom door was not locked……..

One cannot be "absolutely certain," of anything in that circumstance, but a child injured by rifle rounds 40+ minutes prior doesn't really bode well for their survival. A full adult is unlikely to survive rifle rounds, let alone a child.

[Theruleslawyer]

I went and bought an 'assault rifle' in anticipation of another round of ineffective laws that just hurt law abiding gun owners in Illinois. All I can say is thank god for home-rule units.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

One cannot be "absolutely certain," of anything in that circumstance, but a child injured by rifle rounds 40+ minutes prior doesn't really bode well for their survival. A full adult is unlikely to survive rifle rounds, let alone a child.

Especially if they're injured by a firearm that fires at a velocity of over 3000 feet for second?

[Sedan_Clan]

Nearly 300 kids were killed by handgun rounds in Chicago in 2021. I haven't even bothered to look at 2022's statistics yet. Let's focus on the person(s) committing the heinous act(s) rather than politicizing the weapon.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/09/u...eaj/index.html

[tcphoto]

It is amazing to me why people feel the need for these military type weapons, I didn't buy my first pistol till I felt a threat in my last house. Three years later, I own two pistols and if I cannot neutralize a threat with them then there's little hope. I see no reason for owning an AR type rifle as a civilian, are they afraid the Russians or other foreign entity will come to their door?

These mass shootings including the young man in Wisconsin are perpetrated by young men, the Highland Park shooter had multiple red flags and his father approved of the rifle purchase. I think the root of the problem for these shootings lies with the parents, where were they when their child made a turn for the worst? Perhaps we should televise an execution of the convicted so it might deter someone from committing the same crime.

[tcphoto]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Nearly 300 kids were killed by handgun rounds in Chicago in 2021. I haven't even bothered to look at 2022's statistics yet. Let's focus on the person(s) committing the heinous act(s) rather than politicizing the weapon.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/09/u...eaj/index.html

Irresponsible gun owners, children will always be curious so you have to lock them up, put it out of reach or don't own them at all. My pistols are locked and hidden away, only I can get to them in case of an emergency.