Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[M5Rick]

What's happening at BMW as far as EV's are concerned is not good.

[Murf the Surf]

This Tesla crash and fire happened about a week ago, I thought about posting the story of yet another vehicle fire that was very challenging to extinguish but I thought I'd put it on the back burner. Then this story comes out that the deceased was unable to get out of the vehicle as reported due to the electronic locks/doors. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/she...a9a9927d5.html

[Murf the Surf]

I'm just listening to to talk radio and this comes on for discussion:

"State Farm, the largest auto and home insurance company in the U.S., has removed all electric vehicle (EV) chargers from its parking garages, citing concerns over fire risks. The decision, announced in late October and effective almost immediately after that, affects chargers at the company’s head office in Bloomington, Illinois; and at its hub locations across the country."

https://driving.ca/auto-news/driver-...20fire%20risks.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

This Tesla crash and fire happened about a week ago, I thought about posting the story of yet another vehicle fire that was very challenging to extinguish but I thought I'd put it on the back burner. Then this story comes out that the deceased was unable to get out of the vehicle as reported due to the electronic locks/doors. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/she...a9a9927d5.html

This is the most concerning thing for me about ev ownership. A systems failure due to damage or fire that disables my ability to escape. They need to create a system that shatters the glass or something in a significant enough accident. As long as my car is sitting upright I could at least pop the roof panels off.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

This is the most concerning thing for me about ev ownership. A systems failure due to damage or fire that disables my ability to escape. They need to create a system that shatters the glass or something in a significant enough accident. As long as my car is sitting upright I could at least pop the roof panels off.

You could just pull the manual release right there on the left near where you control the windows.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by gblansten

You could just pull the manual release right there on the left near where you control the windows.

Yes mine has mechanical normal doors as far as I know. It's not full on electronic actuators.

[gblansten]

I know that many of you would choose a fiery death in a Tesla. But, here is the admittedly brutal and difficult manual release video that would save some of you.

[gblansten]

Rear manual release is a pull in the storage well on each side.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

You could just pull the manual release right there on the left near where you control the windows.

I don't believe the victim was the owner of the car and possibly didn't know about this.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I don't believe the victim was the owner of the car and possibly didn't know about this.

I'm just saying it is easy to pull the manual release.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

What's happening at BMW as far as EV's are concerned is not good.

The video was BMW centric which makes sense for this forum but it's pretty clear that the tides are shifting and not favourably for the EV market or manufacturers.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I'm just saying it is easy to pull the manual release.

Apparently not easy enough for the young lady who died.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I'm just saying it is easy to pull the manual release.

Seriously, you expect someone in the rear seat after a crash and the cabin is beginning to fill with toxic smoke, in a panic, to reach the Rubic's Cube manual door release? Lol. Sorry, but that is an utterly stupid and non-fail-safe design. Why can't EVs just have normal, cable operated, door pulls, both interior and exterior?

The front door release is not much better for a panic stricken driver or passenger. Both designs are completely stupid.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Apparently not easy enough for the young lady who died.

^ THIS ^

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Seriously, you expect someone in the rear seat after a crash and the cabin is beginning to fill with toxic smoke, in a panic, to reach the Rubic's Cube manual door release? Lol. Sorry, but that is an utterly stupid and non-fail-safe design. Why can't EVs just have normal, cable operated, door pulls, both interior and exterior?

The front door release is not much better for a panic stricken driver or passenger. Both designs are completely stupid.

We each have our anxiety/fear budget. I'm going to have to defer to you to cover this fear for the both of us.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

We each have our anxiety/fear budget. I'm going to have to defer to you to cover this fear for the both of us.

Again, I think the fact that the young woman died in a terrible way speaks to the fears a great many would suffer. The electronic door mechanism just seems like an unnecessary complication to solve a problem that doesn't exist. In the event of an emergency muscle memory is the default, having to search for a hidden or secondary release makes no sense.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

We each have our anxiety/fear budget. I'm going to have to defer to you to cover this fear for the both of us.

I don't have a fear about it, I just think it is a bad design and has a built-in failure point that is not necessary and difficult to engineer out of. On the Mach E forum, one member told the story of his wife experiencing a panic situation where their kids almost baked to death in their Mach E this past July. The kids were 3 minutes away from heat exhaustion. The Mach E is prone to the 12V battery failing without any warning. In her case she parked at a big box store, got out of the drivers seat closed the door and went to open the rear passenger doors to fetch her two young children from their car seats. The 12V battery failed at that moment and the car locked itself. Long story short the fire department came and broke the front passenger window to get access to the car and rescue the kids. The fireman said the kids were three minutes away from heat stroke.

All because Tesla decided that cool EV cars need electrically assisted flat-surface door handles. Ford one-ups Tesla with its Mach E and has just a push button door handle. Idiot design. It's one of the reasons I did not buy a Mach E when I looked at them in September last year. When I asked the sales lady how one gets in the car if the battery fails, she had no answer. She went inside to learn and provided the answer. Much the same as Tesla, 12V needs to be applied to leads hidden in the front bumper to unlock the frunk to gain access to the 12V battery via removal of a few trim covers inside the frunk. Then jump the 12V battery terminals, which powers the electrically opened doors. Utterly ridiculous. Clown engineering.

Some things just don't need to be improved upon. Cable operated door handles are one such thing.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Again, I think the fact that the young woman died in a terrible way speaks to the fears a great many would suffer. The electronic door mechanism just seems like an unnecessary complication to solve a problem that doesn't exist. In the event of an emergency muscle memory is the default, having to search for a hidden or secondary release makes no sense.

And why this is not obvious to any professional automotive engineer is bewildering.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

6 mile commute each way, I would just get a plug in hybrid. And by get, I mean lease one for like chump change.
I picked up a new Wrangler 4Xe, 27 miles of electric range means i'm filling up like once a month. My first gas tank, i'm trying to get 1,000 miles. There's a guy with a G80 and the 4Xe and the most miles he's gotten out of one tank of gas is 1200. Plus it's on 33s and a blast to drive. For $350 a month, why the hell not?

I leased a Hummer 3x SUV for a crazy deal. It's awesome. It was an odd concept that low mph stop and go is where EVs get max range and even exceed stated range figured. Completely opposite of ice. I don't even know the mpg of the my M2. Ive never wanted to know the truth

Wife has a x5e and she fills up every couple of months.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

^ THIS ^

What this now leads to is what all the other makes of EV's use as an emergency exit should the main electronic one fail in a catastrophe.

[dreamingat30fps]

People die in terrible ways all the time. If you live in fear of all of them, regardless of the actual chances of dying from that, then that’s your choice.

Didn’t some famous person recently die from falling off a balcony. Do I now have to live in fear of balconies? What about that hockey player that got his throat sliced? Guess ice skating is out also.

Electronic door latches are not limited to EVs. My C7 had electronic doors and as far as I know the manual override was in the freaking hatch. Talk about a death trap.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

People die in terrible ways all the time. If you live in fear of all of them, regardless of the actual chances of dying from that, then that’s your choice.

Didn’t some famous person recently die from falling off a balcony. Do I now have to live in fear of balconies? What about that hockey player that got his throat sliced? Guess ice skating is out also.

Electronic door latches are not limited to EVs. My C7 had electronic doors and as far as I know the manual override was in the freaking hatch. Talk about a death trap.

I think the point is why make things overly complicated especially when the back up to be used in an emergency isn't readily available. Like I said before, muscle memory becomes the default in panic or stress situations. Is an electronic door look necessary when a long accepted cable release works just fine. Common sense dictates that in an emergency you don't want people to have to refer to the owners manual to find the over ride. Yes yes, I'm sure you are all very calm under pressure but it's pretty clear from basic life experiences that not everyone remains calm when the shit is hitting the fan.