BMW Design Boss "its not our goal to please everyone"

[GenXer]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

“Change the iconic kidney grilles”
-Nobody

"Change the beloved Hofmeister kink too while you're at it."
- Nobody & their brother

[Germanauto]

This guy is just being a spin artist like any major news outlet or politician.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

If you love it, that is great, be excited and enjoy. I am extremely happy about the manual, but I really struggle with the front grille and the extreme business and sharp lines of the hood. I am willing to order it in a dark color and try to like it, but I just can not get used to the look.

I do not want to seem overly negative, but the G20, M2cs, M5cs....those cars look great to me. Their wider more modern looking grilles seem to have the exact look that scream modern BMW aesthetics to me.

+1. That is my problem -- orientation.

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

I think they are going to realize quickly that ugly does not sell. One of the largest dealers in the area - has 20 m440 s seating on the lot for a while . Other dealers tell me they can not move 4 series. I know its an Suv market now but m340 and m550 seem to be doing great. That LCI can not come quick enough

I had to go to my dealership for a coolant top off. While waiting I wandered the showroom floor. Not a 4 series in sight but there were lots of X series, 8 series, 5 series, 3 series and 2 series, just no 4 series.

There is a somewhat hidden backup showroom upstairs. Most people don't know about it and it is rarely visited. So I took the elevator up and lo and behold, there were two 4 series hidden up there.

My dealership is obviously very smart and hiding the 4 series from sight.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I personally loved this post, not only because I agree with your opinion, but also because of how hilarious it was. I will forever refer to them as Karen Dukec and Van Hooy Lewis and the News now.

The Karen Dukec & Van Looy Lewis and the News gang!

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Why not just leave the forums instead of telling everyone your opinion?

I hate Apple products over everything but could never imagine to complain on a Apple forum how much I hate it?

Plenty of other cars you can buy, for my part I can't wait to get the G80... And I own 3 E38... funny they mentioned the 7 Series in the interview...

It doesn't come in your mind that their might actually be a real problem with those design guys and that they are causing damage to the brand we all care for? You're not interested in the opinion and sentiment of fellow fans? What is the point of a forum then?

[zamboni]

Originally Posted by Scorp!on

I like the new the design but the statement: “You can see that on something as polarising like the kidneys on the 4 Series, 20 per cent of people are liking it. That fits to the type of customers we are targeting."

is just plain stupid. How in the world can this be interpreted as a postivie statement? How many drugs does this guy take?

tbh he looks pretty arrogant...don't like him.

Agreed and how can he got promoted to this position?

BMW will continue with its bold and divisive new car designs despite criticism often being “brutal”, said the company’s design chief Domagoj Dukec

I'm pretty sure Dukec design don't get signed off if Biermann still with BMW.Time to move on to other brands where the traditions still well preserve.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/3...pite-criticism

[snareman]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Why not just leave the forums instead of telling everyone your opinion?

I hate Apple products over everything but could never imagine to complain on a Apple forum how much I hate it?

Plenty of other cars you can buy, for my part I can't wait to get the G80... And I own 3 E38... funny they mentioned the 7 Series in the interview...

Maybe I missed something, but forums are all about people expressing their opinions. Otherwise it would just be a news site with maybe some how to's. If you want everyone with an opinion to get off here 90% of the forum would leave.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by snareman

Maybe I missed something, but forums are all about people expressing their opinions. Otherwise it would just be a news site with maybe some how to's. If you want everyone with an opinion to get off here 90% of the forum would leave.

You didn't miss anything. That's exactly what forms are for. I would say 100% of the posts here are based in some opinion. Low4life had his feelings hurt because he actually likes the F80 and doesn't want to admit that it looks like a rabbit having orgasm or that the design lines are completely non-congruent. He also probably doesn't want to admit that Karen Dukec is an arrogant and elitist prick.

But perhaps the biggest irony is that the most loyal BMW fans, aka Fanboys, are the ones that are criticizing BMW and their abhorrent design direction that literally throws all traditional BMW design cues in the trash. It's insecure buyers who seem to have something to prove or want to show off some "bold" design that are defending this crazy designer.

By the way, I do completely agree with Low4life about Apple products and their consumers. It's like a cult and if you ever insult an Apple product to an Apple owner, be careful. But that's fundamentally different than what we're dealing with here. We have BMW fanboys that are criticizing BMW because they've made a grave mistake in design language.

[Nahlem]

In the end the sales numbers will tell the tale of this, if it was a success or not, we can have our opinions on the car design as much as we want but if the sales go thru the roof then it was a success if it turns out to be bad not counting for the covid situation then they will have learned their lesson.

A lot of people express their opinions on the forums like they are experts on BMW when it comes to design and maybe you are who knows you might have professor degree or college degree in design language or an equal education in the field, then great but we are all a bit bias to our own tasting and like and this has been proven so many times over.

Let the sales numbers talk if you don't want it because you feel its to much of an ugly car for you to drive then ofc you shouldn't buy it that is just wasting good capital on stuff for the sake of wasting.

But if you do like it then go for it and no one can tell you that you are wrong for liking the car because it suits you no matter what the "experts" thinks.

In the end the car will be here for the next 7-8 years or less who knows and then they will change the design language again to something completely different. And then another group of customers will again hate the new design while a complete set of new customers will love it.

Or if we go by the forums this is the nail in the coffin for BMW and in 8 years BMW won't be here because of the big massive grills and everyone will have moved on to Alfa, Porsche, Mercedes, Audi (insert random car maker here who doesn't have the new BMW design language) Then i guess it is the end for BMW

[thebmw]

Yes, in the end, sales numbers are all these companies are interested in. But how well do you think sales will be when 80% of people hate the design (per BMW statements)! I think that is more than the percentage of people who hated the Pontiac Aztek (voted ugliest car in the world) when it came out. Even some dealers are hiding the 4 series from showroom floors. This has never been done before at BMW. Sales currently are very poor for the new 4. BMW blames this on COVID and that people are not interested in coupes (rubbish).

Regardless of sales, the new 4 and iX are confusing and discongruent design. All you need is an elementary school level of art. The themes are disjointed and look like a collage of clip-art. In addition, it does not take any advanced degrees to see how Karen Dukec is a narcissist based on his behaviors and comments (BTW, I do have advanced degrees on this topic).

If you are looking for someone who has advanced experience and credentials in design, let me introduce you to Frank Stephenson, the former head of BMW design and one of the most well respected designers in the world. He has been called "one of the most influential automotive designers of our time" by Motor Trend and designed the original X5, Ferrari F430 and FXX, Maserati MC12, McLaren MP4-12C, P1, 676LT, 570S, and 720S, has completely torn into BMW's new design language, starting with the new 4 series. It is very rare for a highly regarded designer to rip on his colleagues. It is only done when the design is so repulsive and repugnant that there is no way to sugar coat things. I.E., it is not politically correct to do what he did unless the offender (BMW) is being offensive.

He stated that "the huge grille is unrefined", the design is "difficult to understand", and the grill "doesn't go with the proportions of the rest of the coupe". These grills have been widely regarded as pig nostrils, which is not a good thing. In addition, he states that "it's weird that the positioning of the front license plate doesn't seem to have been considered when designing this car" and that "You can't forget about the registration plate".

He goes on to say that he regrets that BMW seems to have nearly eliminated the company's iconic Hofmeister kink and says there's "a lot happening" at the rear. Overall, he states that "BMW tossed the baby out with the bathwater."

Dukec will NEVER be regarded even remotely close to Frank. Dukec is a legend only in his own narcissistic, elitist mind.

[joooiiiiii]

I hated it when it came out. Went and saw it in person. Sat in it. Well, I love it now.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by joooiiiiii

I hated it when it came out. Went and saw it in person. Sat in it. Well, I love it now.

Yes.

[ted99]

I had owned 3 BMW's when the Bangle Butts came out. Next 4 cars were M-B. Back to BMW when the BB's went away, for the next 6 cars. Next ones won't be BMW if these grills are still around. I guess I don't understand "proper design". I just understand what I like.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by thebmw

You didn't miss anything. That's exactly what forms are for. I would say 100% of the posts here are based in some opinion. Low4life had his feelings hurt because he actually likes the F80 and doesn't want to admit that it looks like a rabbit having orgasm or that the design lines are completely non-congruent. He also probably doesn't want to admit that Karen Dukec is an arrogant and elitist prick.

But perhaps the biggest irony is that the most loyal BMW fans, aka Fanboys, are the ones that are criticizing BMW and their abhorrent design direction that literally throws all traditional BMW design cues in the trash. It's insecure buyers who seem to have something to prove or want to show off some "bold" design that are defending this crazy designer.

By the way, I do completely agree with Low4life about Apple products and their consumers. It's like a cult and if you ever insult an Apple product to an Apple owner, be careful. But that's fundamentally different than what we're dealing with here. We have BMW fanboys that are criticizing BMW because they've made a grave mistake in design language.

No, I do not like the F8X... that's why I sold my F82.

I own currently 6 BMW and just ready for something "new".

After driving BMW only for 24 years, I can tell you complains like this happens usally every 7-8 years with the new model...lol

Btw... The "ugly" E65/E66 was a top seller ... Also the I3 was extended because of the high demand ...

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

No, I do not like the F8X... that's why I sold my F82.

I own currently 6 BMW and just ready for something "new".

After driving BMW only for 24 years, I can tell you complains like this happens usally every 7-8 years with the new model...lol

Btw... The "ugly" E65/E66 was a top seller ... Also the I3 was extended because of the high demand ...

It's difficult to relate sales figures and design, certainly when the brand is exploring all new kinds of new market openings. BMW ships trainloads of 7 series to Moscow and Beijing these days. I only wonder what the sales figures could have been with a better design then?

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by KoenG

It's difficult to relate sales figures and design, certainly when the brand is exploring all new kinds of new market openings. BMW ships trainloads of 7 series to Moscow and Beijing these days. I only wonder what the sales figures could have been with a better design then?

Design can be polarizing or controversial, but a design cannot be "better or worse". Design is not a smartphone or a yoghurt.

[arashir]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Design can be polarizing or controversial, but a design cannot be "better or worse". Design is not a smartphone or a yoghurt.

Of course design can be better or worse. It's why it takes designers years to develop their talent, and why a design takes massive iteration to perfect. Just because there are some aspects of design that are purely subjective doesn't disqualify that, and just because the design territory requires a language and knowledge that the layperson doesn't have experience with doesn't mean there aren't rules.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Design can be polarizing or controversial, but a design cannot be "better or worse". Design is not a smartphone or a yoghurt.

This is generally not true unless you are Dukec. Good or successful design encompasses required aero performance, vehicle size, specific brand details, usable functions and features etc. Designers have many requirements to consider during design sppecified by other teams and regulations.

[RSXDC5]

Originally Posted by ItsABlueG82

I guess I'm in the 20% cause I love the new grill. Happy BMW did it...! Can't wait to get my M4 in March :-)

Real question for you. What specifically about the g8x front grill do you like?

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

This is generally not true unless you are Dukec. Good or successful design encompasses required aero performance, vehicle size, specific brand details, usable functions and features etc. Designers have many requirements to consider during design sppecified by other teams and regulations.

That is correct. I was perhaps too general in my statement. However, he is clearly talking about the new big grille, the car looks. I assume the big grille does not negatively affect the mentioned "aero performance, vehicle size, specific brand details, usable functions and features".

[NickyC]

Why are there still no serious performance reviews of the G80/G82? Those turds are going to start showing up next month on dealer lots right?