Watch Gurus: Rolex Vs Panerai

[stooker]

I'm happy with my 320, and was excited when Panerai started making in-house movements. Not liking where they've headed since. My only possible future PAM, if I ever were to get one, is the Radiomir base (PAM 210). I'd love to have one each of a luminor and radiomir.

[hooligan_G01]

Originally Posted by stooker

I'm happy with my 320, and was excited when Panerai started making in-house movements. Not liking where they've headed since. My only possible future PAM, if I ever were to get one, is the Radiomir base (PAM 210). I'd love to have one each of a luminor and radiomir.

I had an I series 210 and I never should have sold it.

[aus]

Example of a problem with owning a Rolex...
My brother in law has one and a guy tells him, "Nice watch! Is it an Invicta??"

.

[8_is_enough]

Originally Posted by aus

Example of a problem with owning a Rolex...
My brother in law has one and a guy tells him, "Nice watch! Is it an Invicta??"

.

Hahaha. My coworker said "Cool Shinola!" when she saw my Panerai

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by aus

Example of a problem with owning a Rolex...
My brother in law has one and a guy tells him, "Nice watch! Is it an Invicta??"

.

That's only a problem if you care about watches as a status symbol.

[vsix]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

That's only a problem if you care about watches as a status symbol.

A watch is only one ( of billion other ways ) to represent your status. Thats the way it is.
A Rolex is a Rolex and will always be.
As an true watch enthusiast, I also love the mentioned Invicta or Steinhardt but these watches never ever can‘t reflect what a Rolex is or carries in its heritage.
I assume the Invicta comment came out of pure, in its roots rotten jealousy.
If so -> Good job, keep them bitchEz crying and them grinding people motivating

I remember the day I bought my M4.
Totally fascinated and in love I drove to an nearby river, to make pictures and a walkaround vid.

So I started filming and all of a sudden, someone ( dudes voice ) clearing his voice for attention, followed by this here:
„What is this for a ugly looking cheap car?“
I ignored it...
Then the person tried it again
„What is this for an ugly looking piece of shit car?“
I ignored the second attempt and kept on filming...
Then all of a sudden a females voice got into the yelling and went like:
„What an old and outdated UUUGLY looking pile of shit you are filming and oh by the way we will call now the police because it is prohibited to drive your car up to this point.“
So enough was enough I turned around to give them haters fire.
At the minute I turned around I spotted an 75-80 year old couple, their eyes where burning from jealousy seeing a younger dude trying to relax and film in all quietness his new purchased car.

What do I want to say with that: Jealousy is a bitCh but when you instead of hating, stay hungry and see everything as „for you“ instead of „against you“ your life will be much more on the positive side. A Rolex, a BMW M3 E92, a Lambo, a Bugatti, a Mercedes are status symbos but at the same time one of the earths greatest motivators! For te owners themselfes as well as for the people „only „ just looking at it.
Keeps the owner working hard to stay on that status level and at the same time keeps the masses entertained and motivated.

The 75-80 couple didn‘t got it even in their final days and that certain hater dude, knew 100% a Rolex watch was worn that particular, mentioned day and not an Invicta.

[Graves]

Sometimes I feel like I really don't fit in with this forum, lmao. Took me 17 years, 4 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan just to get an M3. Y'all over here balling out of control with M3s, Porsches, and $10k dollar watches. I thought my TAG watch was decent, guess I need to up my game.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Graves

Sometimes I feel like I really don't fit in with this forum, lmao. Took me 17 years, 4 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan just to get an M3. Y'all over here balling out of control with M3s, Porsches, and $10k dollar watches. I thought my TAG watch was decent, guess I need to up my game.

Nah. Don’t let it influence you. I’m perfectly happy with my Omega Seamaster and feel no needs to get a Rolex. Could also afford an M3 but I’m fine with driving my 17 old beater car (recently got rid of my BMW) and taking my time. I like simple elegance and feel that a Rolex is a bit too flashy for me; and the M3 isn’t what it’s supposed to be.

[GuidoK]

I only wear seiko's....
Not only because I dont see myself paying 5k or more for a watch (I dont really regard it as jewelry although they can be beautiful, to me its for a large part an instrument that does something a certain way), but also because I like a number of aspects on them: there's hardly any bullshit, you pay $50, then you get a watch where $50,- went into development, production etc, you pay $500, then you get a watch where $500 went into devolopment, production etc. Lots of choice, always an inhouse movement for a superlow pricepoint that is still very reliable and relative precise, and a brand that probably made more breakthroughs in horology than any other brand.
Not that I think rolex hasnt got a good value (imho its one of only a few higher brands that gives good value) but there are a lot of brands that sell $5k+ watches where you probably pay more for their advertizing and plugging amongst stars than the watch itself...

[stooker]

Originally Posted by Graves

Sometimes I feel like I really don't fit in with this forum, lmao. Took me 17 years, 4 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan just to get an M3. Y'all over here balling out of control with M3s, Porsches, and $10k dollar watches. I thought my TAG watch was decent, guess I need to up my game.

Yeah, similar feelings here. Although while I’m mil as well, I was DINK for many years and acquired a lot of toys before we settled down to have kids. This site is a horrible place to try to keep up with the Joneses, I’ll just be content with what I have.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by vsix

A watch is only one ( of billion other ways ) to represent your status. Thats the way it is.
A Rolex is a Rolex and will always be.
As an true watch enthusiast, I also love the mentioned Invicta or Steinhardt but these watches never ever can‘t reflect what a Rolex is or carries in its heritage.
I assume the Invicta comment came out of pure, in its roots rotten jealousy.
If so -> Good job, keep them bitchEz crying and them grinding people motivating

I remember the day I bought my M4.
Totally fascinated and in love I drove to an nearby river, to make pictures and a walkaround vid.

So I started filming and all of a sudden, someone ( dudes voice ) clearing his voice for attention, followed by this here:
„What is this for a ugly looking cheap car?“
I ignored it...
Then the person tried it again
„What is this for an ugly looking piece of shit car?“
I ignored the second attempt and kept on filming...
Then all of a sudden a females voice got into the yelling and went like:
„What an old and outdated UUUGLY looking pile of shit you are filming and oh by the way we will call now the police because it is prohibited to drive your car up to this point.“
So enough was enough I turned around to give them haters fire.
At the minute I turned around I spotted an 75-80 year old couple, their eyes where burning from jealousy seeing a younger dude trying to relax and film in all quietness his new purchased car.

What do I want to say with that: Jealousy is a bitCh but when you instead of hating, stay hungry and see everything as „for you“ instead of „against you“ your life will be much more on the positive side. A Rolex, a BMW M3 E92, a Lambo, a Bugatti, a Mercedes are status symbos but at the same time one of the earths greatest motivators! For te owners themselfes as well as for the people „only „ just looking at it.
Keeps the owner working hard to stay on that status level and at the same time keeps the masses entertained and motivated.

The 75-80 couple didn‘t got it even in their final days and that certain hater dude, knew 100% a Rolex watch was worn that particular, mentioned day and not an Invicta.

The reason I don't think of material possessions (cars, watches) as status symbols is because to my knowledge there's only a weak correlation between the price of a car or the price of a watch that one wears and one's financial status.

One example: Only 6% of Rolex owners have a total net worth of $1 million or more. A net worth of $1 million puts you in the top 10% of wealth in the U.S.

That means 94% of people who wear Rolexes are not in the top 10% of wealth.

Another example: The median income of luxury car owners is around $100,000 per year (top 15%). This statistic changes for different cars. The median income of Porsche 911 owners is $380,000/year (top 1.5%). For Lexus RX450 owners it's about $300,000/year (top 2%).

For BMW 3 series owners it's about $175,000/year (top 10%), but here's another interesting statistic - Among pentamillionaires (those with a net worth in excess of $5M which puts them in the top 3% of wealth), the most commonly driven cars are the BMW 3 series and the Mercedes E class.

That means if you drive a BMW 3 series, you're likely to be in the vicinity of $150,000-$250,000/year in annual income. But, if you're a pentamillionaire, there's a good chance you drive a 3 series or E class. It's a converse square/rectangle relationship.


Let's say you have two people:

Person A weras a Rolex (priced at $20,000)
Income: $200,000/year
Net worth: $1.5M
Age: 55

Person B wears an Invicta (priced at $300)
Income: $500,000/year
Net worth: $7M
Age: 55

Person A's Rolex is not a status symbol to Person B, but neither Person A nor Person B will ever know that unless they divulge their finances. Person B has more than 4 times as much money accumulated than Person A.

Of course you could have the reverse situation, but the point is there's no way to tell. Nothing about wearing a Rolex ensures that you have an extraordinarily high income or net worth, and isn't that what status symbols are ultimately trying to gauge? "That person wears a Rolex. I envy him, he must have worked hard. He must be successful. He must make more money than me. He must have more money than me." The latter two points are not necessarily correct, though.


Edit: Some more information about Rolex owners -

"Some 7.2% of Rolex owners are company directors, with managing directors close behind. Over 20% of owners have either manager or director in their job title.

But there was some surprises. 3.5% of owners were housewives, over 465 (1.3%) were police officers, and 175 (0.5%) were receptionists. Hairdressers, dog groomers, classical musicians, and even dinner ladies also featured on the list."

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-o...-the-uk-2017-2

[Graves]

I simply was just stating that given my childhood and current profession I never thought it possible to be able to afford an $80k dollar car. Albeit, I probably could have purchased it sooner; however, I am not the type to live beyond my means and it didn't quite fit the mold until now. So I see some of y'all and a Rolex and an M3 is pocket change. To me that's years of saving and a lot of money out of my family's mouth. Definitely not hating. This is what makes America great. We all are different and can do different things. Now...how do I get a Rolex. :

[NemesisX]

Here's a post from some guy who on a watch forum who owns 3 Rolex watches -

"I was making $80k when i bought my 3 rolexes all less than a years time. First one paid in full, 2nd took two months to pay, and last one took 3 months to pay off."

Would I do that? Probably not, but more power to him! He clearly enjoys and values Rolex watches enough to finance them. I don't think a person like that bought a Rolex to act as a status symbol.

It's interesting to consider that 6% of Rolex owners have a net worth >$1M but 10% of the general population (in the U.S.) has such a net worth. In other words, you're less likely to be a millionaire if you wear a Rolex compared to if you picked a random person off the street. I can speculate as to why that may be the case, but I'm just guessing here. Part of it may have to do with the idea that Rolex watches are - to some people - status symbols and they want to be perceived as being more financially well off than they are.

Someone making $100k/year may wear a Rolex because he wants those around him to believe that he makes $400k/year or $500k/year or $1M/year. I'd like to think that most people don't do this, though, because it just strikes me as tacky and deceptive, you know?

In fact if you ask me personally, I'd feel so embarrassed if someone thought I made more than I did that I wouldn't even think of wearing a Rolex until my net worth was in the $10M range which, by all accounts, will never happen for me. And that's why I don't ever see myself wearing a Rolex. I'd feel tool-ish wearing one making a fraction of what other people think I make just by virtue of wearing a Rolex. Not just a Rolex, but generally any watch that costs > $5K or so. The most expensive watch I own is a $200 Seiko (for the record). This is especially unfortunate because as much as I personally don't like viewing watches as status symbols, I know many people do. That's partly why I brought up the discussion to see what you all thought. There are certain Rolex watches that are aesthetically very pleasing to me but that I would never dream of purchasing for fear of looking like I'm "all show and no go."

Part of it may have to do with the fact that most millionaires have between $1M and $10M in net worth, many of these people consider themselves upper middle class, and many of these people practice stealth wealth and don't wear watches that cost >$300.

That leaves a very small percentage of millionaires (those with net worths >$10M) to buy Rolex watches. The bulk of Rolex owners probably belong to the mass affluent with net worths <$1M or around $1M to $2M. That's my theory, anyway (with some selected facts/stats sprinkled in to support it).

[stooker]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Here's a post from some guy who on a watch forum who owns 3 Rolex watches -

"I was making $80k when i bought my 3 rolexes all less than a years time. First one paid in full, 2nd took two months to pay, and last one took 3 months to pay off."

Would I do that? Probably not, but more power to him! He clearly enjoys and values Rolex watches enough to finance them. I don't think a person like that bought a Rolex to act as a status symbol.

It's interesting to consider that 6% of Rolex owners have a net worth >$1M but 10% of the general population (in the U.S.) has such a net worth. In other words, you're less likely to be a millionaire if you wear a Rolex compared to if you picked a random person off the street. I can speculate as to why that may be the case, but I'm just guessing here. Part of it may have to do with the idea that Rolex watches are - to some people - status symbols and they want to be perceived as being more financially well off than they are.

Someone making $100k/year may wear a Rolex because he wants those around him to believe that he makes $400k/year or $500k/year or $1M/year. I'd like to think that most people don't do this, though, because it just strikes me as tacky and deceptive, you know?

In fact if you ask me personally, I'd feel so embarrassed if someone thought I made more than I did that I wouldn't even think of wearing a Rolex until my net worth was in the $10M range which, by all accounts, will never happen for me. And that's why I don't ever see myself wearing a Rolex. I'd feel tool-ish wearing one making a fraction of what other people think I make just by virtue of wearing a Rolex. Not just a Rolex, but generally any watch that costs > $5K or so. The most expensive watch I own is a $200 Seiko (for the record). This is especially unfortunate because as much as I personally don't like viewing watches as status symbols, I know many people do. That's partly why I brought up the discussion to see what you all thought. There are certain Rolex watches that are aesthetically very pleasing to me but that I would never dream of purchasing for fear of looking like I'm "all show and no go."

Part of it may have to do with the fact that most millionaires have between $1M and $10M in net worth, many of these people consider themselves upper middle class, and many of these people practice stealth wealth and don't wear watches that cost >$300.

That leaves a very small percentage of millionaires (those with net worths >$10M) to buy Rolex watches. The bulk of Rolex owners probably belong to the mass affluent with net worths <$1M or around $1M to $2M. That's my theory, anyway (with some selected facts/stats sprinkled in to support it).

Dude, you don’t need to be a multi-millionaire to buy a Rolex.

Also, some people just don’t care about watches, even wealthy people.

(a) you’re putting Rolex too high up on a pedestal, and (b) you obsess too much about what other people think and perceive about you. If you like a Rolex (or other high end watch) and can afford it, just go and buy it. . Life is too damn short.

[Maynard]

Rolex has the unusual distinction of being THE high-end watch status symbol (for those who don't know watches), and also a huge name in aviation/police/military circles, so no doubt it has weird and non-linear predictors. These are iconic niches, so if Rolex folded, somebody else would take their place - The poseurs of the world NEED a flashy show-off bit of jewelry to tell the world they make more than they really do (and I'm always going to want a watch that JB could kill somebody with ). I'm guessing that if you were to get similar figures on other watches costing >$5-10,000, things would look a little more predictable. I could be wrong - I'll ask my hairdresser (and what the hell are 'dinner-ladies'?).

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Rolex has the unusual distinction of being THE high-end watch status symbol (for those who don't know watches)

Absolutely true.
No brand or watch is so much imitated as the rolex subbie.
There are brands that virtually exist around creating rolex homages, and rolex probably also is the most (illegal) copied brand.
They do this because it sells. For every AP royal oak homage or Patek homage you can probably find 100 subbie homages
Maybe TAG comes in second (or omega), but Rolex is on another level imho.

Rolex is also by far the most profitable (and biggest in terms of volume) independent luxury/swiss watch brand.

[stooker]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Rolex has the unusual distinction of being THE high-end watch status symbol (for those who don't know watches), and also a huge name in aviation/police/military circles, so no doubt it has weird and non-linear predictors. These are iconic niches, so if Rolex folded, somebody else would take their place - The poseurs of the world NEED a flashy show-off bit of jewelry to tell the world they make more than they really do (and I'm always going to want a watch that JB could kill somebody with ). I'm guessing that if you were to get similar figures on other watches costing >$5-10,000, things would look a little more predictable. I could be wrong - I'll ask my hairdresser (and what the hell are 'dinner-ladies'?).

But all that aside, Rolex still makes a respectable watch. I'm not a Rolex fan, but as an enthusiast I accept that they make great timepieces and have earned their place in the market for a reason, all while competing against the Swatch Group. So it's hard to judge someone wearing a Rolex if they are a poser or not...

Other markets have brands that are more easily identifiable as poser brands, where their products aren't the greatest but they have a perception of being very high end due to aggressive marketing. I think Mont Blanc falls in that category for pens...

Or furthermore, a no-kidding high end company makes "affordable" models that the masses gobble up to be able to say the own something from that brand, but they are very watered down products.

[Maynard]

Don't mean to come off as anti-Rolex; I actually have great admiration for the brand, and I recognize that there are so many routes to this brand that you can't judge those who wear them (OK, fair disclaimer - when there are diamonds on it, I probably do get a little judgy). I was more commenting on what an unusual 'market position' these hold and how they are a unique icon to so many, from such diverse backgrounds.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Rolex has the unusual distinction of being THE high-end watch status symbol (for those who don't know watches), and also a huge name in aviation/police/military circles, so no doubt it has weird and non-linear predictors. These are iconic niches, so if Rolex folded, somebody else would take their place - The poseurs of the world NEED a flashy show-off bit of jewelry to tell the world they make more than they really do (and I'm always going to want a watch that JB could kill somebody with ). I'm guessing that if you were to get similar figures on other watches costing >$5-10,000, things would look a little more predictable. I could be wrong - I'll ask my hairdresser (and what the hell are 'dinner-ladies'?).

Very good point. I'd bet things would be different if you looked at Patek Philippe owner (as an example) demographics or otherwise.

Originally Posted by stooker

Dude, you don’t need to be a multi-millionaire to buy a Rolex.

Also, some people just don’t care about watches, even wealthy people.

(a) you’re putting Rolex too high up on a pedestal, and (b) you obsess too much about what other people think and perceive about you. If you like a Rolex (or other high end watch) and can afford it, just go and buy it. . Life is too damn short.

Of course. No one here (myself included) is claiming that you need millions of dollars to afford a Rolex.

[stooker]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Of course. No one here (myself included) is claiming that you need millions of dollars to afford a Rolex.

I didn’t say afford in a monetary sense. I said own, as in to have and wear one. You imply that anyone not a multimillionaire with a Rolex is, or can be perceived as, trying to inflate their wealth. Hence why you wouldn’t dare getting one unless your net worth is around $10M (that is an absurd notion BTW). This led me to my comment that you don’t need to be a millionaire to own (not afford) a Rolex. It’s not a prerequisite to ensure you’re not mistaken as a poser.

Again, if the fear of being judged as misrepresenting your wealth is what’s holding you back from owning a Rolex or other high end watch, you’re missing out.

[Bt12]

Love the panerai dome crystal!... love the Rolex jubilee band.... I need to go buy a g shock for the shady places I go . For work lol

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Bt12

Love the panerai dome crystal!... love the Rolex jubilee band.... I need to go buy a g shock for the shady places I go . For work lol

Have a G-Shock - would recommend. It is actually a great watch for the price point.