New BMW M boss talks AWD and potential models

[RingMeister01]

You know part of the BMW appeal as a young guy was "if the two cars are equal on paper, the Bimmer always wins."

Pay attention AG

[KGB_123_99]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Maybe just focus on making your cars lighter instead? Then you wouldn't have to keep upping the HP and add AWD to keep up with the bloat. Not sure why there is this huge focus on making each car more powerful instead of just being better.

I think the big problem is that "being better" is very subjective to each person. How do you convince someone to buy a new model by saying that the car is "better" when everyone interprets it differently.

When you up the HP and lower the 0-60 times, those are objective and no one can argue with that. Hence easy to make a sale.

[crono06]

Originally Posted by W///

Seriously, this has been rumored for YEARS, even for the current F10 M5. Did you think the dude just came on and single handedly change the direction of the company in 2 weeks? No.

It's as if people think some new manager/exec can waltz in and make all the changes they want without proper approvals first. If this is going to happen, you can bet that it's been in the talks way before this guy joined BMW.

[KGB_123_99]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

AWD not being part of sports cars is from the day when AWD systems were horribly inefficient, heavy, and heavily impacting performance. As Audi has proven, nearly none of these things are true, and AWD actually improves performance in some cases. The 335 is an excellent example of this. So where HP is increasing into the tiers of 500 and beyond, AWD seems logical.

+1

As long as it's biased toward the rear! I can easily oversteer and powerslide in my BMW just by stepping on the gas. Doing the same in an Audi is nearly impossible without using the handbrake or braking for the pendulum effect.

BTW, to all the AWD haters, I find that drifting with an AWD car is much easier than RWD. Just my $0.02.

[bigjae1976]

The P1 is rear wheel drive with 900hp...while I don't have any fanatical anti-turbosim, I don't see the point of continuing making engines with this flat lug of power from 1500 RPMs to 5500 RPMs. I can understand and agree with continuing that approach in the non-M cars considering the target market. I think building on the 335 would be a good thing.

I wish the M division would just abandon the whole linear power delivery thing and just make the car drive like a normal boosted car. 4k RPMs, big lug of boost and power just kicks you in the back and then it's warp speed.

400+ ft lbs of torque at 1500 RPMs is for tractor trailers and trucks, not a sports car.

[Bosozoku]

Originally Posted by crono06

It's as if people think some new manager/exec can waltz in and make all the changes they want without proper approvals first. If this is going to happen, you can bet that it's been in the talks way before this guy joined BMW.

BOOM. Previous M CEO Dr. Friedrich Nitschke has already explained BMW's possible use of AWD in M cars:

Which M models will potentially see an AWD option? "The M5 and M6, maybe in the next generation they could get AWD, but not with the M3 or M4. Never," says Nitschke.

Source: http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=896525

Nitschke: Many of the AWD wheel drive systems are not optimal for us. ... It would in future the possibility M5 / M6 also optional with AWD. But this would be extremely rear-biased, more as a sport AWD than a traction AWD, perhaps even in combination with rear wheel steering. The RWD option would also remain for the M5/M6.

Source: http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1049659

Just as crono06 said, newbie CEO van Meel is pretty much following Dr. Nitschke's plan.

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by P-TownM3

smokes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTCFb6V7oT0

That's GranCoupe and about 175 lb heavier than Coupe... Since GTR is Coupe lets go with Coupe vs Coupe ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpr6rdC8JdA

[Sal335i]

No Awd❗️❗️ ❗️❗️❗️ Nooooo

[stressdoc]

AWD for M5 I can see. It is already too big and heavy for my taste. For the 600 HP+ 4k lbs. niche, AWD makes sense. I just don't have much fun driving a car in that range.

I want a 2,500 lbs Z2M. RWD. 4cyl turbo 340 HP.

[Ezio]

you CAN PUT DOWN huge power and RWD. it just takes a hell of a tire. look at the z06 lol.

overall though, i would rock a AWD M3 with tons of power. the future of cars already sucks as is, just gotta get over it.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Ezio

the future of cars already sucks as is, just gotta get over it.

That's the spirit!

[dbworld4k]

Leave AWD to the noobs that don't know how to drive fast.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by dbworld4k

Leave AWD to the noobs that don't know how to drive fast.

95% of the customers you mean ?

i think BMW wants to sell to those people

[DCG]

Originally Posted by jhynes

Agreed +1 for an xDrive M3 (as an option of course)

New boss, meet the old boss...

About time!

All I want is an AWD xDrive "rear-biased" M4 Competition Package & X4M period!!!

M3 AWD xDrive Touring for the U.S. sounds cool as well, but it has to look bad-ass to sell here in the States.

It sounds like they got the right guy, and are doing some cool clean looking techy stuff to boot

[DCG]

Originally Posted by snaimpally

As power goes up, AWD makes sense because what is the point of having more power if you can't get it down on the pavement?

+1!

[dbworld4k]

Originally Posted by Ezio

95% of the customers you mean ?

i think BMW wants to sell to those people

/flame suit on

That's precisely my point.

It's BS. The M3/M4/M5 are living proof of how BMW has now geared (ha) the M cars to the plethora of posers who have not a single clue how to drive the bloody thing to within an ounce of what a sports car is made for (see: moron crashing his Sakhir Orange M4 over a median at Cars and Coffee). These buyers have no business with an M car (or what M cars used to be). These 95% should be buying dolled up non-Ms with a million M stickers and badges just to remind them, for their country club dinners. After all, non-Ms are supposed to be the comfortable, daily driving sport-luxury cars.

The Ms were catered to true enthusiasts who don't bitch about a lack of low-end torque or slightly firm suspension. M cars were designed to be unapologetic in their sports car nature. Wringing out a motor to stratospheric RPMs with linear power delivery and crisp, nimble handling are values that used to be the core of BMW M. Not tuned 550i motors mated to a platform shared with a 7 series, and tweaked power trains found all over the lineups. That's not what a damn race-derived sports car is all about.

Look at how much current BMW M models have become so mediocre. There was a time when these were the unquestioned, dominant benchmarks in their respective classes (see E36 M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, E39 M5). Hell, the E92 M3 even won comparisons against the 997 Carreras. Today, the M3/4/5/6/71927322 are lucky to be the in the middle of their competitors with their ridiculous size, weight, plush suspensions and tractor torque curves. Maybe the M2 will be bmws saving grace (even then, with a tuned 235i motor).

That said, I get it. You need more power. More torque. That's the way the competition is going so FI is unavoidable. But for heaven's sake, why can't you keep up the class dominant engineering that once was? Why is there so much corner cutting (well, profits) instead of world-leading Motorsport engineering of yesteryear? Why are their current Ms just hopped up cookie cutter versions of their non-M counterparts instead of utilizing actual, real Motorsports research and development? I understand BMW has to adapt to their competitors, but they're doing a totally piss poor job of it.

A once unwavering class leader is now something to just simmer over and to appeal to the masses. And it's bullshit. M is all about Marketing and Money now, hardly about Motorsport. It's a shame. Ces la vie.

/rant

[///BMW (+)]

BMW better leave the M3/4 RWD

[///BMW (+)]

If M5 is AWD M6 should be RWD

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by bcl0328

why is everyone so against AWD? the GTR has it and it's a legendary car.

It's legendary but very very unemotional and therefore, for many people including me, boring.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by Revcrazy

There is simply no passion in BMW anymore like Porsche, Ferrari and a couple others have. They are simply about a business case and churning out as many cars as possible. I do think AWD is a good option on these new M cars because they are handfuls at the limit and down put power down well. Too bad xdrive isn't nearly an equal to Quattro.

I've said that many times on here and got temporarily banned etc. Gotta be careful what you say around here. I mean look at the new M3/M4... most boring, least emotional M car ever built. I just did a direct comparison to the E92 M3 2 weeks ago and wow.... yes the E92 is much slower but so much more fun to drive. Problem is it's more and more a mass product and the mass is easy to impress. As soon as a car is fast it's emotional to them. Take the GTR for example. One of the most dull and boring driving experiences unless you floor it from 0-100 mph.

[kgroschi]

Originally Posted by dbworld4k

/flame suit on

That's precisely my point.

It's BS. The M3/M4/M5 are living proof of how BMW has now geared (ha) the M cars to the plethora of posers who have not a single clue how to drive the bloody thing to within an ounce of what a sports car is made for (see: moron crashing his Sakhir Orange M4 over a median at Cars and Coffee). These buyers have no business with an M car (or what M cars used to be). These 95% should be buying dolled up non-Ms with a million M stickers and badges just to remind them, for their country club dinners. After all, non-Ms are supposed to be the comfortable, daily driving sport-luxury cars.

The Ms were catered to true enthusiasts who don't bitch about a lack of low-end torque or slightly firm suspension. M cars were designed to be unapologetic in their sports car nature. Wringing out a motor to stratospheric RPMs with linear power delivery and crisp, nimble handling are values that used to be the core of BMW M. Not tuned 550i motors mated to a platform shared with a 7 series, and tweaked power trains found all over the lineups. That's not what a damn race-derived sports car is all about.

Look at how much current BMW M models have become so mediocre. There was a time when these were the unquestioned, dominant benchmarks in their respective classes (see E36 M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, E39 M5). Hell, the E92 M3 even won comparisons against the 997 Carreras. Today, the M3/4/5/6/71927322 are lucky to be the in the middle of their competitors with their ridiculous size, weight, plush suspensions and tractor torque curves. Maybe the M2 will be bmws saving grace (even then, with a tuned 235i motor).

That said, I get it. You need more power. More torque. That's the way the competition is going so FI is unavoidable. But for heaven's sake, why can't you keep up the class dominant engineering that once was? Why is there so much corner cutting (well, profits) instead of world-leading Motorsport engineering of yesteryear? Why are their current Ms just hopped up cookie cutter versions of their non-M counterparts instead of utilizing actual, real Motorsports research and development? I understand BMW has to adapt to their competitors, but they're doing a totally piss poor job of it.

A once unwavering class leader is now something to just simmer over and to appeal to the masses. And it's bullshit. M is all about Marketing and Money now, hardly about Motorsport. It's a shame. Ces la vie.

/rant

Couldn't agree more!

[BMW269]

LOL, WTF with this thread?

Prefer FWD M5?