Condo Collapse

[lemetier]

Looking south into the basement level garage entrance/exit. Column along grid line M is missing with more debris towards the West. 3 minutes later, the superstructure above is no more.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by monkeyjuice5150

Would the Real Estate Market still be hot in South Florida, Miami Beach? Esp the Condos? I wouldn't want to buy one right now. Locals, do you think the Condo market will crash because of this? Or ppl don't give a F, and will just buy.

Just my guess: In the absence of evidence that numerous additional buildings are at risk, I doubt it will cool things off outside of temporarily in the immediate area of this building. And I doubt there will be a proclamation that many buildings up and down the coast are at risk even if some end up having remediation work done. There are a mix of buildings much older and much newer than that one. Also, not all real estate is on the coast. I live 15-20 miles inland, for example. People are moving here to avoid taxes and demand exceeds supply by a pretty good margin right now.

[ramman434]

Originally Posted by monkeyjuice5150

Would the Real Estate Market still be hot in South Florida, Miami Beach? Esp the Condos? I wouldn't want to buy one right now. Locals, do you think the Condo market will crash because of this? Or ppl don't give a F, and will just buy.

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Just my guess: In the absence of evidence that numerous additional buildings are at risk, I doubt it will cool things off outside of temporarily in the immediate area of this building. And I doubt there will be a proclamation that many buildings up and down the coast are at risk even if some end up having remediation work done. There are a mix of buildings much older and much newer than that one. Also, not all real estate is on the coast. I live 15-20 miles inland, for example. People are moving here to avoid taxes and demand exceeds supply by a pretty good margin right now.

I'm a real estate agent. I don't think we're going to see a massive drop in condo buyers. As Rick said, it may taper off for a bit, but will bounce back. I think we're about to see a massive over-haul on structure regulations for condos in general in the state (not just those on the coast, but probably with a large focus on them).

I wouldn't be surprised, if moving forward, condo buyers are requesting the most recent engineering inspections from the condo/HOA before closing.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by ramman434

I'm a real estate agent. I don't think we're going to see a massive drop in condo buyers. As Rick said, it may taper off for a bit, but will bounce back. I think we're about to see a massive over-haul on structure regulations for condos in general in the state (not just those on the coast, but probably with a large focus on them).

I wouldn't be surprised, if moving forward, condo buyers are requesting the most recent engineering inspections from the condo/HOA before closing.

My wife and I bought a small vacation condo in Asheville, NC pre-construction 2018 / closed in 2019. There have been issues with the building and the HOA hired an engineering firm in 2020 before the builder’s warranty expired to assess the issues, many of which had to do with drainage. We have a long, detailed engineer’s report, and it is clear builders didn’t follow plans or code in many instances. At best there was gross negligence involved. This is a brand new building (5 stories) and while the issues are nowhere near what was apparently eroding at the 40-year old building that collapsed in Dade, if ignored they would lead to major problems. HOA / owners are likely going to need to litigate with the builder (who probably set up an LLC for the project they will fold), but I am happy the HOA pursued the report to know what’s wrong even if repairs will be invasive and expensive. Other owners who wanted to flip their units are probably pissed off. There are a lot of competing interests in a condo development.

My point of all that is I don’t think construction issues are even close to unique to coastal Florida. I think there is a fundamental issue with how codes are enforced, how buildings are handed off to HOA’s by builders and how HOA’s and residents handle structural issues they often can’t see until it’s super expensive to fix (or too late). Like anything recent this is at the forefront of buyers’ minds for now but we’ll see how it evolves over time.

[ramman434]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

My wife and I bought a small vacation condo in Asheville, NC pre-construction 2018 / closed in 2019. There have been issues with the building and the HOA hired an engineering firm in 2020 before the builder’s warranty expired to assess the issues, many of which had to do with drainage. We have a long, detailed engineer’s report, and it is clear builders didn’t follow plans or code in many instances. At best there was gross negligence involved. This is a brand new building (5 stories) and while the issues are nowhere near what was apparently eroding at the 40-year old building that collapsed in Dade, if ignored they would lead to major problems. HOA / owners are likely going to need to litigate with the builder (who probably set up an LLC for the project they will fold), but I am happy the HOA pursued the report to know what’s wrong even if repairs will be invasive and expensive. Other owners who wanted to flip their units are probably pissed off. There are a lot of competing interests in a condo development.

My point of all that is I don’t think construction issues are even close to unique to coastal Florida. I think there is a fundamental issue with how codes are enforced, how buildings are handed off to HOA’s by builders and how HOA’s and residents handle structural issues they often can’t see until it’s super expensive to fix (or too late). Like anything recent this is at the forefront of buyers’ minds for now but we’ll see how it evolves over time.

Literal nail on the head. Couldn't have summed that up any better.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...252421658.html

Interesting comment:

"The deepest puddle of standing water, according to the contractor, was located around parking spot 78 — an area that building plans show is located directly under the pool deck where in a 2018 inspection report, engineer Frank Morabito had flagged a “major error” in the original design that was allowing water intrusion and causing serious damage to the structural concrete slabs below."

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Interesting comment:

"The deepest puddle of standing water, according to the contractor, was located around parking spot 78 — an area that building plans show is located directly under the pool deck where in a 2018 inspection report, engineer Frank Morabito had flagged a “major error” in the original design that was allowing water intrusion and causing serious damage to the structural concrete slabs below."

Still a lot of details to flush out, I think. I was reading an article from the Washington Post in Apple News yesterday that said most of the HOA board resigned in 2019 because residents were squabbling about the report and repair / restoration costs. Went back to finish it later and couldn’t find it. I can find it online but don’t have a WP subscription and assume it will be widely reported soon enough if true.

Obviously it was going to be a very costly repair / restoration.

[cmyx6go]

So many sad stories. I read about a man that recently bought in the building. He relocated to FL after his wife died last year from cancer and both his parents died from COVID. His daughter and son in law flew down for a visit and arrived the night of the collapse. I guess at least they all went together.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

So many sad stories. I read about a man that recently bought in the building. He relocated to FL after his wife died last year from cancer and both his parents died from COVID. His daughter and son in law flew down for a visit and arrived the night of the collapse. I guess at least they all went together.

Geez, that sounds awful. All these stories do.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Interesting comment:

"The deepest puddle of standing water, according to the contractor, was located around parking spot 78 — an area that building plans show is located directly under the pool deck where in a 2018 inspection report, engineer Frank Morabito had flagged a “major error” in the original design that was allowing water intrusion and causing serious damage to the structural concrete slabs below."

As in my post 38 from the DM press report.

[monkeyjuice5150]

Originally Posted by ramman434

I'm a real estate agent. I don't think we're going to see a massive drop in condo buyers. As Rick said, it may taper off for a bit, but will bounce back. I think we're about to see a massive over-haul on structure regulations for condos in general in the state (not just those on the coast, but probably with a large focus on them).

I wouldn't be surprised, if moving forward, condo buyers are requesting the most recent engineering inspections from the condo/HOA before closing.

The condos that are well maintained will probably sell even more higher due to supplies.

Then the condos that needs work. Owners going to get hit with high Special Assessment fees. Yikes. SFR is just going to get even more expensive in S.Fl.

[RickFLM4]

Scrutiny grows on condo board meetings, disputes at collapsed building in Surfside https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...252505623.html

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Scrutiny grows on condo board meetings, disputes at collapsed building in Surfside https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...252505623.html

It's been a long day; detectives are hard onto a possible vehicle collision with a column in the basement garage sometime between 11:30pm and 1am and subsequent efforts to conceal it.

[fiveohwblow]

Originally Posted by lemetier

It's been a long day; detectives are hard onto a possible vehicle collision with a column in the basement garage sometime between 11:30pm and 1am and subsequent efforts to conceal it.

[DieselDiner]

Originally Posted by lemetier

It's been a long day; detectives are hard onto a possible vehicle collision with a column in the basement garage sometime between 11:30pm and 1am and subsequent efforts to conceal it.

Wonder if this ties to the video taken by someone staying at the building across the street that shows water pouring into the garage just prior to the collapse:


Story and video imbedded here: https://www.yahoo.com/now/video-take...160541001.html

[sspade]

Originally Posted by lemetier

It's been a long day; detectives are hard onto a possible vehicle collision with a column in the basement garage sometime between 11:30pm and 1am and subsequent efforts to conceal it.

Woah... seriously?!

Seems like you would have to be going pretty fast in a parking garage to take out an entire concrete pillar, no? Not sure I believe it.

Unless we're saying that the pillar was so deteriorated that a much lighter impact was able to severely damage it? Still not sure I believe it...

Parking garage columns get backed into/scraped/touched all the time. Doesn't lead to building failure that often, usually.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Wondering if this will get out into the media soon.

[Tommy-G]

I see blurbs on the nightly news but has anyone from the actual ownership or condo association been interviewed on the news?

I feel like any sort of management or ownership of this property has been kept very quiet. Maybe I just havent watched close enough.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by TommyG-inFlaNow

I see blurbs on the nightly news but has anyone from the actual ownership or condo association been interviewed on the news?

I feel like any sort of management or ownership of this property has been kept very quiet. Maybe I just havent watched close enough.

I saw a couple interviewed from the sister building, built at the same time. They were pretty confident in the condition of their building and not worried about a collapse or anything like that.

Very telling in my opinion... this collapse was due to poor maintenance, repairs and upkeep over years and not an issue with the original building design. Thats not to say that in the four decades that have passed since this building was designed, different decisions would have been made during construction today versus then.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by sspade

I saw a couple interviewed from the sister building, built at the same time. They were pretty confident in the condition of their building and not worried about a collapse or anything like that.

Very telling in my opinion... this collapse was due to poor maintenance, repairs and upkeep over years and not an issue with the original building design. Thats not to say that in the four decades that have passed since this building was designed, different decisions would have been made during construction today versus then.

If I lived in the sister building, I'd remodel the bathroom and install a cast iron clawfoot tub... and SLEEP IN IT!

[Tommy-G]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If I lived in the sister building, I'd remodel the bathroom and install a cast iron clawfoot tub... and SLEEP IN IT!

With a parachute

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TommyG-inFlaNow

With a parachute

I just read the HOAs in the area are mandating residents now train in Base Jumping as a condition of ownership.

[TiMSport]

So now there are reports that at least one nearby condo evacuate.