FIA taking action on Red Bulls flexible rear wing

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

If their wing passed the FIA static load tests how is it cheating?

Because the regulations forbid moveable aerodynamic devices.
The regulation isn't that if you can pass the static load test then you can use moveable aerodynamic devices.
Same for Ferrari who found a cheat for the fuel flow limit.
Similar rules apply against certain performance enhancing drugs in sport...they are banned, its not that you can take them as long as the you can cheat the test to hide their use.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Same here . It's really nice for Grosjean to see him get the pole !
Also for his wife and kids , after such a hard time..

EDIT : Ferrari ?
Well , Ferrari did a big step forwards !
Look where they came from...And look where they run today !

Speaking of GRO's wife and seeing her on Drive to Survive...She is smoking hot...My kinda woman!!! Almost as hot as Kimi's

You know Ferrari fans. Big step forward is nice but we will never be happy unless competing for championships. We have the right drivers! Now we need the right engineers (Steal more from Germany) and a new LEADER....Osama Binotto is killing me

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Because the regulations forbid moveable aerodynamic devices.
The regulation isn't that if you can pass the static load test then you can use moveable aerodynamic devices.
Same for Ferrari who found a cheat for the fuel flow limit.
Similar rules apply against certain performance enhancing drugs in sport...they are banned, its not that you can take them as long as the you can cheat the test to hide their use.

Your athlete cheating example isn't a relevant comparison. Red Bull passed the test and isn't hiding anything. The wing movement is there for anyone to see.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Speaking of GRO's wife and seeing her on Drive to Survive...She is smoking hot...My kinda woman!!! Almost as hot as Kimi's

You know Ferrari fans. Big step forward is nice but we will never be happy unless competing for championships. We have the right drivers! Now we need the right engineers (Steal more from Germany) and a new LEADER....Osama Binotto is killing me

I couldn't agree more !

As for Binotto ...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I couldn't agree more !

As for Binotto ...

I'm sure I saw him in ''Billy Smart's Circus'' at one time

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I couldn't agree more !

As for Binotto ...

Good day at the Indy GP:
P1 Veekay (Dutch Right?)
P2 GRO

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Great news about Grosjean . The Phoenix of the fire is back !

Most of his crashes were caused by his crappy HAAS car !

That's fantastic news!

Romain has always been a very quick and underestimated driver in F1.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Good day at the Indy GP:
P1 Veekay (Dutch Right?)
P2 GRO

Thx KbD, fantastic news, Rinus is definitely Dutch. He hails from a town very close to Amsterdam.
His family name is 'van Kalmthout' but he figured that might be too complicated for the US audience. So, Rinus Veekay it is!
And this kid is only 20!

And please Philippe don't start the discussion on Veekay being Belgian!

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Thx KbD, fantastic news, Rinus is definitely Dutch. He hails from a town very close to Amsterdam.
His family name is 'van Kalmthout' but he figured that might be too complicated for the US audience. So, Rinus Veekay it is!
And this kid is only 20!

And please Philippe don't start the discussion on Veekay being Belgian!

Yep, they explained all that during the TV coverage. Changing last name was probably a great idea for us dumb Americans

Kid looks fast & doing the Indy 500. Bet GRO's wife put the brakes on the 500 and ovals as he is only doing road courses. Can't blame her or him...TOO DANGEROUS!!!!!!

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Because the regulations forbid moveable aerodynamic devices.

By that definition every front and rear wing on the grid is a moveable aero device and should be banned. They all 'move'.

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

The regulation isn't that if you can pass the static load test then you can use moveable aerodynamic devices..

The regulation is quite literally you can use your wing if it passes the FIA's test. RBs did.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Killed by Death]

All wings must have some flex or they will snap...I'm no engineer but have people complaining ever flown? If not watch the wings sometime.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

It's not cheating if it passes their test. Pure genius engineering here

Translate this thinking to college exams...

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Ngilbe36

Neat! It looks like they(RBR) knew how the FIA tested this and figured out a way to pass the test and still gain an advantage. This is engineering. As a result the FIA will tighten the testing up to eliminate this grey area/loophole. I'm not mad about it. Nice work RBR

Do you think that finding a way to sneak answers into a proctored test is good thinking or cheating?

Do you think that the VW emissions test mode program was cheating?

Seriously. I'm asking you to answer these in light of your view on RBR.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Thx KbD, fantastic news, Rinus is definitely Dutch. He hails from a town very close to Amsterdam.
His family name is 'van Kalmthout' but he figured that might be too complicated for the US audience. So, Rinus Veekay it is!
And this kid is only 20!

And please Philippe don't start the discussion on Veekay being Belgian!

Don't be worried Ed . As I know Rinus is 100% "DUTCH" (your place)
So . I'll stay out of this ...

As for MAX , I'm pretty sure you figured out he's from my place ...

BTW : Congrats for Rinus !!!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by EdM5

That's fantastic news!

Romain has always been a very quick and underestimated driver in F1.

That's for sure , but I'm pretty sure Kevin M. performed better in the Haas .

And the Haas with their wheels issue . OMG !!!

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Translate this thinking to college exams...

I aced one class' final because I studied the exam from the prior year and it turned out the professor didn't change the test for my year. Not my problem that I walked in knowing the answers. The professor needed to develop a better test. Just like the FIA.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

By that definition every front and rear wing on the grid is a moveable aero device and should be banned. They all 'move'.

Indeed and the amount of permissible flex is strictly defined in the regulations.

Instead this particular cheat involves some kind of mechanism to move or rotate the whole rear wing assembly...in order to ​circumvent the load tests and cheat the moveable bodywork regulations.
The mechanism, be it a deformable structure, spring, joint, bearing, pivot, damper or whatever, only has to have sufficient preload to resist the FIA load test, but anything beyond that breaks the preload and allows the component to move or rotate to reduce drag, which contravenes the regulations.
The FIA are doubling the static load and pull back tests to stop teams cheating the regs...in addition to adding reference markings on the rear wing assembly to measure any movement at high speed.

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

The regulation is quite literally you can use your wing if it passes the FIA's test.

Really? I'd love to see that regulation...do you have its page number in the 2021 technical regulations pdf available online?

I would add that its not just Red Bull who seem to be cheating but also Alpine.

[M5Rick]

^

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Translate this thinking to college exams...

But this isn't college exams. It's engineering warfare.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Instead this particular cheat involves some kind of mechanism to move or rotate the whole rear wing assembly...in order to ​circumvent the load tests.

They found a loophole. Every single team on the grid spends endless resources trying to find loopholes. Double diffusers, DAS, F-duct, etc. This is F1 101. Again, don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Indeed and the amount of permissible flex is strictly defined in the regulations.

Instead this particular cheat involves some kind of mechanism to move or rotate the whole rear wing assembly...in order to ​circumvent the load tests and cheat the moveable bodywork regulations.
The mechanism, be it a deformable structure, spring, joint, bearing, pivot, damper or whatever, only has to have sufficient preload to resist the FIA load test, but anything beyond that breaks the preload and allows the component to move or rotate to reduce drag, which contravenes the regulations.
The FIA are doubling the static load and pull back tests to stop teams cheating the regs...in addition to adding reference markings on the rear wing assembly to measure any movement at high speed.


Really? I'd love to see that regulation...do you have its page number in the 2021 technical regulations pdf available online?

I would add that its not just Red Bull who seem to be cheating but also Alpine.

I read that they do this by manipulating the carbon fiber weave to make the wing very strong when a force is applied at a particular location (where the FIA tests it), but still able to deflect when being pulled down by air passing under the wing

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

I read that they do this by manipulating the carbon fiber weave to make the wing very strong when a force is applied at a particular location (where the FIA tests it), but still able to deflect when being pulled down by air passing under the wing

If that's the case, it's very clever.

I think that a lot of people are up in arms because it's Red Bull and not a team like Williams, Haas, etc.