Firearms

[Shiza]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

what's a good fairly intimidating weapon for home protection? Not a bazooka. An AR or shotgun or what?

Based off the question I'd assume you're pretty inexperienced with firearms. For an inexperienced shooter I would go with an AR15 for many reasons. Most of all, they have lower recoil that allows for quicker and more controlled follow up shots and can hold more rounds than a shotgun. A gunshot is a gunshot and if a AR going off doesn't scare an intruder away than a shotgun wont either. Overpenetration isn't really an issue with the correct ammunition when using an AR15, 77gr OTM is shown to dump its energy on impact and not overpenetration.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by Shiza

Based off the question I'd assume you're pretty inexperienced with firearms. For an inexperienced shooter I would go with an AR15 for many reasons. Most of all, they have lower recoil that allows for quicker and more controlled follow up shots and can hold more rounds than a shotgun. A gunshot is a gunshot and if a AR going off doesn't scare an intruder away than a shotgun wont either. Overpenetration isn't really an issue with the correct ammunition when using an AR15, 77gr OTM is shown to dump its energy on impact and not overpenetration.

I would actually say and AR is the LAST option for a novice. Remembering all the controls and clearing jams in the heat of the moment takes practice and experience. We shooters do it enough it is old hat, but it's the hardest to understand for a novice. I actually used to work at Sierra Bullets and 77 will over penetrate almost always. This is the reason they are allowed to be used in military applications. The OTM (not hollow point) will "clog" most times and tumble and perform like a FMJ. USMA Colonel Hays Parks wrote a opinion/memorandum on it in 1990 that cleared the way for them to be used and created the MK262 round Black Hills still loads to this day. They meet the definition of "non-expanding" when made like the Matchking version with no consideration for expansion. When they hit where you are aiming - their job is done. Great for the battlefield - not great in a house with paper walls.

If someone has zero or limited experience with firearms, I usually suggest a double action revolver or shotgun loaded with the RIGHT ammo - which is important. Double action revolvers almost never jam and if something happens - you just pull the trigger again. The heat of the moment changes things drastically for everyone.

Is it what I use or would suggest for someone with gun experience? No - but even then it is effective. Light weight frangible loads will ruin whoevers day you are shooting at and have far less chance of over penetrating. After seeing many many many 77 gel tests - I'd bet you $100 bucks I could stand in the middle of my house and shooting in any direction - get one to exit the house.

And - racking a shotgun slide in the middle of a dark and silent house is something NO ONE on the planet would not recognize as their first and only warning before a trigger gets involved. LOL

But opinions are like assholes, and this one is only mine.

[Shiza]

Originally Posted by unluky

I would actually say and AR is the LAST option for a novice. Remembering all the controls and clearing jams in the heat of the moment takes practice and experience. We shooters do it enough it is old hat, but it's the hardest to understand for a novice. I actually used to work at Sierra Bullets and 77 will over penetrate almost always. This is the reason they are allowed to be used in military applications. The OTM (not hollow point) will "clog" most times and tumble and perform like a FMJ. USMA Colonel Hays Parks wrote a opinion/memorandum on it in 1990 that cleared the way for them to be used and created the MK262 round Black Hills still loads to this day. They meet the definition of "non-expanding" when made like the Matchking version with no consideration for expansion. When they hit where you are aiming - their job is done. Great for the battlefield - not great in a house with paper walls.

If someone has zero or limited experience with firearms, I usually suggest a double action revolver or shotgun loaded with the RIGHT ammo - which is important. Double action revolvers almost never jam and if something happens - you just pull the trigger again. The heat of the moment changes things drastically for everyone.

Is it what I use or would suggest for someone with gun experience? No - but even then it is effective. Light weight frangible loads will ruin whoevers day you are shooting at and have far less chance of over penetrating. After seeing many many many 77 gel tests - I'd bet you $100 bucks I could stand in the middle of my house and shooting [...]

Good to know about the 77gr, I’ve only heard the opposite

[unluky]

Originally Posted by Shiza

Good to know about the 77gr, I’ve only heard the opposite

And that applies to the 77 MatchKing specifically - but most are clones. After Sierra made it famous - everyone jumped on the wagon. One company got in a little trouble when their tooling "accidently" speared the lead during manufacturing which slightly helped expansion start.

They were reamed for it pretty hard as it endangered the use of 77's in combat which gave our troops a HUGE advantage on the desert battlefield where we went from doing mag dumps at close range in the jungle to needing precision shots at long range before the enemies could get into range for their rounds.

Our troops always have the biggest "unfair advantage" is the goal at all times. LOL

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

what's a good fairly intimidating weapon for home protection? Not a bazooka. An AR or shotgun or what?

For home protection:
A dog. Honestly. Unless someone has beef against you most people don't want to break into a house to rob them with a full size dog, let alone an aggressive breed. Dog + security system that will call the cops is enough for most people and you get a dog out of it! You can always throw some glow sticks towards the sound and then rack your pistol, shotgun, AR etc.

A good fairly intimidating weapon:
Ever been shot at before? Every firearm is intimidating when it's pointed your way more so when it goes bang. The goal is not to scare them away with your big black firearm that is in your hands. It is to end their life before they end yours. If you have to take it out be prepared to use it.

As said above an AR, likely a AR style pistol would be best for home defense. 5.56 should not over penetrate and 30 rnds should get the job done. But what matters is training. Having a firearm is useless if you don't train. You could end up being more of a liability and or hurting a loved one if you don't train.

Edit: You should also understand the laws in your state. In some states you might end up in jail ventilating a home intruder if they are not armed. Or if you shoot them in their back if they are retreating. Or you are required to retreat before you can use deadly force. Understand the laws and what is and is now allowed. Example in MA: https://www.berkshireeagle.com/news/...0circumstances.

In Massachusetts, you have a 'duty to retreat' before using deadly force to defend yourself. And then, there's the jury factor.

AKA you are probably fucked if you kill your home invader in MA. Which is fucking stupid.

[bagekko]

To expand on what you wrote with my opinion, advice I gave a friend a long time ago, if you are not going to be able to pull the trigger than it may increase your potential harm, so you are better off not having a gun at all. Also like you hinted on, safely doing it that it does not injure someone outside the home or even inside which you are trying to protect. For non-exp people who may not have the will to fire, I suggest a baseball bat.

Revolver is maybe a good choice in 38 or 22 WM, since WM makes a nice sound, or a 20g shotgun. In most cases firing just one shot may resolve the situation regardless if it hits. But have heard cases of assailants firing wildly in retreat, so duck & cover afterwards.

Originally Posted by unluky

I would actually say and AR is the LAST option for a novice. Remembering all the controls and clearing jams in the heat of the moment takes practice and experience. We shooters do it enough it is old hat, but it's the hardest to understand for a novice. I actually used to work at Sierra Bullets and 77 will over penetrate almost always. This is the reason they are allowed to be used in military applications. The OTM (not hollow point) will "clog" most times and tumble and perform like a FMJ. USMA Colonel Hays Parks wrote a opinion/memorandum on it in 1990 that cleared the way for them to be used and created the MK262 round Black Hills still loads to this day. They meet the definition of "non-expanding" when made like the Matchking version with no consideration for expansion. When they hit where you are aiming - their job is done. Great for the battlefield - not great in a house with paper walls.

If someone has zero or limited experience with firearms, I usually suggest a double action revolver or shotgun loaded with the RIGHT ammo - which is important. Double action revolvers almost never jam and if something happens - you just pull the trigger again. The heat of the moment changes things drastically for everyone.

Is it what I use or would suggest for someone with gun experience? No - but even then it is effective. Light weight frangible loads will ruin whoevers day you are shooting at and have far less chance of over penetrating. After seeing many many many 77 gel tests - I'd bet you $100 bucks I could stand in the middle of my house and shooting in any direction - get one to exit the house.

And - racking a shotgun slide in the middle of a dark and silent house is something NO ONE on the planet would not recognize as their first and only warning before a trigger gets involved. LOL

But opinions are like assholes, and this one is only mine.

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by Torgus

For home protection:
A dog. Honestly. Unless someone has beef against you most people don't want to break into a house to rob them with a full size dog, let alone an aggressive breed. Dog + security system that will call the cops is enough for most people and you get a dog out of it! You can always throw some glow sticks towards the sound and then rack your pistol, shotgun, AR etc.

A good fairly intimidating weapon:
Ever been shot at before? Every firearm is intimidating when it's pointed your way more so when it goes bang. The goal is not to scare them away with your big black firearm that is in your hands. It is to end their life before they end yours. If you have to take it out be prepared to use it.

As said above an AR, likely a AR style pistol would be best for home defense. 5.56 should not over penetrate and 30 rnds should get the job done. But what matters is training. Having a firearm is useless if you don't train. You could end up being more of a liability and or hurting a loved one if you don't train.

Edit: You should also understand the laws in your state. In some states you might end up in jail ventilating a home intruder if they are not armed. Or if you shoot them in their back if they are retreating. Or you are required to retreat before you can use deadly force. Understand the laws and what is and is now allowed. Example in MA: https://www.berkshireeagle.com/news/...0circumstances.

In Massachusetts, you have a 'duty to retreat' before using deadly force to defend yourself. And then, there's the jury factor.

AKA you are probably fucked if you kill your home invader in MA. Which is fucking stupid.

Don't want a dog. I let others take care of them and i pet them when i have a chance.
I have a handgun but my shooting range results have explained i'm not very accrate. I wish i had more time to dial in my accuracy but i'm too busy. BUt if i were to get a different weapon i'd definitely train with it.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

Don't want a dog. I let others take care of them and i pet them when i have a chance.
I have a handgun but my shooting range results have explained i'm not very accrate. I wish i had more time to dial in my accuracy but i'm too busy. BUt if i were to get a different weapon i'd definitely train with it.

That is what it is all about. Let's be realistic. 99.5% of us will never be in a position where we need to fire a gun at a human in our lives. (let's hope). In those instances where that 0.5% happens, how many times does just having a gun end it? How many times does even a single shot that does not hit anyone end it? Quite a bit I'd guess.

So making SURE you know how to safely operate it so you do not hurt yourself or others you are trying to protect is very important. Even snap caps and SAFELY practicing your dry firing and reloads is every bit as important as your accuracy. Chances are you will be so amped up on adrenaline and fear the best of us will struggle with accuracy in the moment.

The key to me is being able to pick up my chosen firearm, ready it to fire and clear an issue without even looking at the gun is very important. Once you have that down dead and you choose to go to the range and shoot silhouettes that mimic someone being held hostages and you only see 1/4 of their heads - go for it. All training is good. But the fundamentals are essential. Does not matter how well your house is built if the foundation fails. I'm lucky - I can shoot in my backyard all I want. But anytime I shoot any gun I own - I take my bed stand and CCW guns and put at least a mag thru both. Testing the gun AND me with it.

The baseball bat is a GREAT alternative if you are not comfortable with a gun. I agree with this 100%.

[bagekko]

Perhaps a training course with an instructor could help correct accuracy? Also some places have training course specific to self defense with a firearm. Get a bore laser to help learn the sights better on your pistol?

For me instruction on my golf swing, shooting, or skiing would prolly screw up everything and make me much worse at things.

Originally Posted by infinitekidM2C

Don't want a dog. I let others take care of them and i pet them when i have a chance.
I have a handgun but my shooting range results have explained i'm not very accrate. I wish i had more time to dial in my accuracy but i'm too busy. BUt if i were to get a different weapon i'd definitely train with it.

[///d]

Originally Posted by bagekko

Perhaps a training course with an instructor could help correct accuracy? Also some places have training course specific to self defense with a firearm. Get a bore laser to help learn the sights better on your pistol?

For me instruction on my golf swing, shooting, or skiing would prolly screw up everything and make me much worse at things.

I do agree with a training course to be taught how to handle a firearm and the fundemntals of shooting. You can practice all day every day, but if you don't know the fundamentals you'll just burn money on ammo and never get any better. And as stated above, you can be a great shot, but when shit hits the fan if you aren't trained to remain calm and have muscle memory you'll fumble fuck around and get know where. A course specifically for self defense would be ideal.

[Donatello.]

LGS has a sitewide sale. Might finally buy a Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical. Have been looking for used for months, but no one has come through.

If this does not pan out, I am done. Already had a junk 1301 Tactical that Beretta wouldn't stand behind

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by nawfoo

Pistol braces are legal again

Temporary. Don't get excited yet.

I'm not buying any until it's permanent.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by ///d

I do agree with a training course to be taught how to handle a firearm and the fundemntals of shooting. You can practice all day every day, but if you don't know the fundamentals you'll just burn money on ammo and never get any better. And as stated above, you can be a great shot, but when shit hits the fan if you aren't trained to remain calm and have muscle memory you'll fumble fuck around and get know where. A course specifically for self defense would be ideal.

You are right, but practice is a good thing for shooting. Most of us were not "good" on day 1.

For me, what enabled me to be a better shot was proper stance and pressure on the firearm

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by bagekko

To expand on what you wrote with my opinion, advice I gave a friend a long time ago, if you are not going to be able to pull the trigger than it may increase your potential harm, so you are better off not having a gun at all. Also like you hinted on, safely doing it that it does not injure someone outside the home or even inside which you are trying to protect. For non-exp people who may not have the will to fire, I suggest a baseball bat.

Revolver is maybe a good choice in 38 or 22 WM, since WM makes a nice sound, or a 20g shotgun. In most cases firing just one shot may resolve the situation regardless if it hits. But have heard cases of assailants firing wildly in retreat, so duck & cover afterwards.

Not everyone has enough strength to swing a bat to matter, though. It's not that simple. I agree some form of self-defense is better than zero.

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Not everyone has enough strength to swing a bat to matter, though. It's not that simple. I agree some form of self-defense is better than zero.

Also random tip I have heard which is smart is put a sock/womans stocking on top of your bat. If you swing or miss and they catch the bat you can slide out and re-attempt

[Torgus]

Any physical weapon such as a bat can be taken away from you and used against you in a fight.

A firearm allows you to keep a safe distance.

[Donatello.]

Looks like I will finally pull the trigger on a Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

Looks like I will finally pull the trigger on a Mossberg 940 Pro Tactical

After that will you buy one?

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

After that will you buy one?

lol ordered one this morning.

[Murf the Surf]

[unluky]

Not a SINGLE "Look at the cool gun I got for Christmas!!!" Post????

Pathetic.

[Murf the Surf]

I carried a GLOCK 22 for over 20 years of service after my S&W. When I retired I bought one for my personal use. I'm a big fan. RIP Gaston.