F1 2021: Saudi Arabian GP - Jeddah (Dec 5)

[kring]

Originally Posted by Onesie

Today Max showed why it's impossible to root for him, even though he's a fast driver. And why it's impossible to discuss with his fans. 1/4 of online voters voted him as driver of the day. For what, exactly? Getting lucky with a red flag?

Happy to see penalties flying his way. Hopefully one day he'll learn, because that's the missing piece for him to be a great driver.

Agree, I try hard as a general F1 fan to get behind Max but the races I watched this year, I just can't... he's not a "professional" he's clearly the next Hamilton from a skill perspective.. dang he's fast.... But his driving is more than suspect, it's out of control, dangerous, disrespectful, and obnoxious.

And where I have sympathy for Max as a younger driver, he's got the worst team backing him with Horner clearly being a dirt bag who walks the line of cheating (like a Bill Belicheat of the NFL's Patriots) where Horners guiding Max in the wrong career directions just so Redbull can get an extra point or to cause MB to loose a point... Max doesn't realize he's a puppet of Horner.

If Max doesn't clean up his act and take the honorable route for a career path, I don't think his career will reach anywhere near the level his talent potential could get him.

I fear long-term, Red Bull, Horner & Max could single handedly turn F1 down a path where the NFL went, which is a sewer pit run by thugs and other immature trash with suspect refing and rules that make no sense.

this will look bad on FIA in the end, they really should step up and give Max a serious sit down discussion, or if he does something questionable in the final race they put him in his place with a disqualification or equivilent. needs to be a zero tolerance action. Might be the best thing you could do to someone like that, for his own good.

[M5Rick]

There was plenty of room for Ham to pass on the left and Ham hit Max,he got it all wrong, shit show with a rocket engine

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

No he didn't, Ham drove right into hem while he kept straight
And his decelleration was steady, HAM could have easily gone to the left 200m before and overtake him.

I mean you see your competitor slow down. Why don't you overtake?!?!?!?!?
This decelleration was happening hundreds of meters, this is not a brake check.....

This !!!

[inTgr8r]

Look up the definition of poor sportsmanship....
It will say, "see Max V."

Latest example, watch Mr.hands on hips walk out of the podium ceremony.

[Humdizzle]

FIA isn't going to do anything

F1 was dying before Max came along to challenge Lewis. Now at least the races are interesting. its not just a mercedes/hamilton show.

[Bubbles]

I think F1 has crossed from Sports to Sports Entertainment.


Only justified result of a stewards meeting would be to disqualify both drivers and fire Michael Masi. That would be the most justified response to this race.

Apparently rear ending a car is ok, tell that to Vettel.


Slowing the pack to assist with a double stack pit stop is ok.

Masi is a joke and has lost governing control and respect of the paddock.

[HFW003]

Given Max has more wins for the season, what are the odds of him taking Lewis out on the first corner at Abu Dhabi?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

disqualify both.

Bottas would love that.

[HFW003]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Masi is a joke and has lost governing control and respect of the paddock.

Masi is the Race Director and not the stewards!

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Are you blind? The video clearly shows MAX swerving, swerving... as in NOT keeping straight. It also indicates MAX hit his brakes once Lewis got close.

Oh come on, the track there is at least 3 cars wide.

There is also footage from inside max' cockpit, the steering wheel hardly turns, and he is certainly not steering to the left just before ham tries to overtake like you have us to believe.
I'm not the one here being blind....

[EdM5]

One thing seems very clear about the Ham-Max fight. Even if Ham clearly has the superior race pace and even if he's passed Max with a car-length during a fight for track position...you just know it's still gonna be a collision. Max simply cannot accept the fact that the other guy is quicker. So he will brake too late and crash into you or force you off the track.
I've only seen this kind of behaviour before from Prost/Senna but that was just during the season finale 89 and 90 at Suzuka.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by HFW003

Masi is the Race Director and not the stewards!

Yes, it’s clear the drivers nor the TP respect him in the way Charlie Whiting ran the grid.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Oh come on, the track there is at least 3 cars wide.

There is also footage from inside max' cockpit, the steering wheel hardly turns, and he is certainly not steering to the left just before ham tries to overtake like you have us to believe.
I'm not the one here being blind....

I have to watch the replays but based on that video and from HAM's view, do you agree that VER is weaving - I don't care if it's the slightest of movements and his steering wheel is barely being turned at all. Yes or no?

You can argue the data this and that, but if you agree that VER is weaving, HAM sees that and if there is no indication to him from Mercedes' pit wall that VER is giving him back position, the weaving can be seen as a defending action like we saw in Brazil.

If one can make the argument that HAM could have just overtaken VER the argument could be that VER should have just moved entirely to the left or right instead of staying in the middle portion of the track.

Again, I have to watch the race to see what happened but everyone giving their opinions know what was going on and from what I can see and read, HAM was not given any indication that VER was giving him back track position. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

[FormulaMMM]

Max was repeatedly over the line in this race and penalized accordingly.

The collision during VER's attempt to let him pass definitely isn't one of those moments. Not shared responsibility, but as the following car, really 100% on HAM.

If HAM suspected a safety car situation (probable), then you would not rush up and position the car in a tailgating position just mere feet behind VER.

If HAM wasn't sure what was going on, then again, you still wouldn't run up the back of VER and leave no margin for error. HAM had seconds to recognize the fact that VER was slowing considerably. What if VER was having a drive issue causing the slowing? And/or a puncture or suspension issue resulting in erratic control?

In the case of a safety car or track incident, the car behind must govern pace and manage the gap. He did not.

In the case of a mechanical issue, or what was actually happening in this instance -- slowing to allow a pass -- bide your time and pass at your discretion, when safe and optimum.

It was HAM's haste combined with confusion and indecisiveness that caused that incident. A real error in judgment from him in an otherwise brilliant race. Lucky one or both drivers didn't come away with race ending damage.

I note that the overhead of the incident was shown once on the broadcast. Sky feedback on this was junk. Rear end the car ahead during a track day or on the road and see if any of their excuses work. The trailing driver's uncertainty isn't a valid cause for collision, good lord.....

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

So max bad the much faster car around this track, and Lewis managed to beat him with Max's dangerous driving and a broken front wing? Wow guess Lewis is the better driver.

BS !!!
HAM's Rocket PU was 0.5/0.8 sec. faster . The Merc's Rocket pace was incredible !

20 laps MAX's defence was outstanding to stay out of HAM's DRS range .
But HAM's Rocket was so much faster and MAX didn't had a chance ..

If HAM's Rocket Warp-Speed remains so fast at Yas Marina , then it's over for MAX ...
Of course it has to be driven first ...and situations can change very quickly in F1

The only answer that Red Bull has is to swap MAX's PU to be faster at Yas Marina ..
The downside is a 5 P penalty , but how it looks like to get more pace I think they have to do it anyway ..

BTW : As I said , the Jeddah track is a cars graveyard !

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by M2CS

He slowed and drove in a straight line up until the point he saw Lewis finally understanding to go by him, that's when Max hit the brakes AND moved left.

Originally Posted by M2CS

Are you blind? The video clearly shows MAX swerving, swerving... as in NOT keeping straight. It also indicates MAX hit his brakes once Lewis got close.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

There is also footage from inside max' cockpit, the steering wheel hardly turns,

Here's the footage from Max' cockpit.

The 'sudden steering' to the left (at 0:12) is the car moving when HAM hits him!!
Max is NOT trying to block HAM's path like you have us believe!!

And you can see: there so soooo much space on the left. Really, there was no reason for HAM to run into Max, other than that HAM was flabbergasted and didn't know how to deal with the situation.
But it's not that Max made it difficult for HAM on purpose

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Really, there was no reason for HAM to run into Max, other than that HAM was flabbergasted and didn't know how to deal with the situation.
But it's not that Max made it difficult for HAM on purpose

You're right. Hamilton wasn't informed yet and he was confused and misread the situation.

EDIT: Telemetry proves that Max did apply the brakes...very disappointing. A really dangerous thing to do in these circumstances.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Look up the definition of poor sportsmanship....
It will say, "see Max V."

Latest example, watch Mr.hands on hips walk out of the podium ceremony.


Attachment 2758662

Do you suffer from amnesia ?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

BS !!!
HAM's Rocket PU was 0.5/0.8 sec. faster . The Merc's Rocket pace was incredible !

20 laps MAX's defence was outstanding to stay out of HAM's DRS range .
But HAM's Rocket was so much faster and MAX didn't had a chance ..

If HAM's Rocket Warp-Speed remains so fast at Yas Marina , then it's over for MAX ...
Of course it has to be driven first ...and situations can change very quickly in F1

The only answer that Red Bull has is to swap MAX's PU to be faster at Yas Marina ..
The downside is a 5 P penalty , but how it looks like to get more pace I think they have to do it anyway ..

BTW : As I said , the Jeddah track is a cars graveyard !

1) Nope, the straightline trap speeds were immensely close and in the same 3-10 kph window as before (brazil & qatar), Lewis was also not the fastest in terms of trap speed so nothing abnormal here. I will post the full speed trap data again shortly. So that rocketship engine excuse is tired and old, it also means the flexiwing accusations are garbage (shows you how good your information is) as the speed deltas remain smiliar.

2) As per m5rick redbull were unphased and not worried about mercede's straight line speed here.

3) Redbull was clearly faster in the corners leading to a faster overall package as per quali showing what they could do. Yet Lewis was able to get the fastest lap with a broken front wing on the Hard compound tires, if that was max you'd be all over him saying driver difference. Guess Lewis is making the difference.

4) Yup alot of cars crashed here...

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by EdM5

You're right. Hamilton wasn't informed yet and he was confused and misread the situation.

But that's strange. I mean it's a mechanical sport so cars slowing down (for example because they break down) is always a real scenario for which a driver should be prepared. (these are the top 20 driver of the world, right?)
It looks very clumsy on the screen at least. Why not steer away from a car that's slowing down?
It's not that HAM didn't see VER slowing down, because in the race you could hear and see him slowing down at least 3 gears. And you can see that the decelleration takes place gradually, my guess easily over 100-200M (so def. not a 'brake check'). So it's a very strange situation.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

But that's strange. I mean it's a mechanical sport so cars slowing down (for example because they break down) is always a real scenario for which a driver should be prepared. (these are the top 20 driver of the world, right?)

Yeah, clearly a mistake from Ham. Very strange because he was actually downshifting.

EDIT: Max hit the brakes and decelerated at 2,4 g. That explains it.

[M5Rick]

Driver of the Day