[msmatt]

Originally Posted by Bimmed Out

I'm not sure I can imagine a less meaningful dichotomy. As an aside, do people really use the term "sporty car"?

What’s a better way to say it?

[msmatt]

Originally Posted by Artemis

The "S" in "CS" stands for "Sport" (or was it "$port" ?) (see here).

For your insurer, the M2 CS will quite likely be pigeon holed as a "sports car".

Ultimate litmus test: show an M2 CS to an 8-yr old kid who likes matchbox cars and ask what type of car it is.

Anyways: It's a bird... It's a plane... It's a high performance car...It's an ///M - a class or pedigree of its own.

Is the “Art” in Artemis, short for “Artiste!”

[NYNick]

This thread will be perfect when I can't get to sleep later.

[Karmic Man]

The term 'sports car' means different thing to different people

In my book, a 'real' sports car is usually a low snug 2 seater...Miata, Lotus...etc

Sporty car is something like an M car. I never saw the E30 M3 (1st BeeM I loved) as a 'real' sports car though it's a very high performance car and used for racing in its era.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

The term 'sports car' means different thing to different people

In my book, a 'real' sports car is usually a low snug 2 seater...Miata, Lotus...etc

Sporty car is something like an M car. I never saw the E30 M3 (1st BeeM I loved) as a 'real' sports car though it's a very high performance car and used for racing in its era.

Pretty funny. My second car was a Miata MX-5. It was one of my favourites. M2 CS less of a sports car? Hold my drink...

[jessief29812]

Agreed. Def not a track dedicated car like a GT4 but it doesn't mean you can't take it to the track and enjoy the twisties.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by msmatt

Is the “Art” in Artemis, short for “Artiste!”

If my first name would be Fred, I'd end up with "F. Artemis".

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Pretty funny. My second car was a Miata MX-5. It was one of my favourites. M2 CS less of a sports car? Hold my drink...

Should really brush up on your comprehensive skills. Re-read my first line

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Should really brush up on your comprehensive skills. Re-read my first line

Pointing out I had a different view as you'd invited. I definitely think your definition is sound, though I have a more expansive one.

In Mount Panarama in Australia our biggest motorsports event (beyond the F1) is big four door sedans flying around the track at insane speeds for intensely long periods. I don't think any one of the 200,000 fans at Bathurst wouldn't consider them sports cars.

[Davil]

Weird thread. It's an M-Car. A genre defining species of motoring history.

[TargaM2]

I don't like/use generic terms like 'sports car'.
It's a very old term thats no longer valid imo, it conjures up images of MGs & Austin Healys & other such 1960s British convertible rubbish driven by an old bloke in a funny cap & scarf with a picnic basket on the boot/trunk lid.
The only people I know that use that term are certainly NOT car people, it's more something my dear old mum would say.

[F87EVO]

As Jason Cammisa said :

''This is not just BMWs best car at the moment ..this is BMW ! A direct descendant of the 2002 , a tall , dorky , obnoxious little brat of a two door sedan !

It is *not* a sports car !

We can easily say that the M5 to be a super sedan..

But the M2 CS its considered as a rare species nowdays , that is heading to extinction !

[Fined]

Nothing based on a 2 series is a sports car. It is too heavy, for one thing. Not on a chassis designed for sporting purposes for another. What makes a sports car is not defined by performance metrics. A GTR isn't a sports car either, its too heavy, performance metrics be damned. Sports cars are lightweight. 3,xxx is not lightweight.

That doesn't take away from the extremely impressive capabilities.

[Karmic Man]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Pointing out I had a different view as you'd invited. I definitely think your definition is sound, though I have a more expansive one.

In Mount Panarama in Australia our biggest motorsports event (beyond the F1) is big four door sedans flying around the track at insane speeds for intensely long periods. I don't think any one of the 200,000 fans at Bathurst wouldn't consider them sports cars.

I watched the legendary Bathurst race live with Godzilla destroying the V8s and Jim Richards calling the V8 fanboys 'you're a pack of assholes'

They are sport saloons, not really sports car in my book but yes different people have different definitions.

We also have to look at the price point of a car. An M5 CS running a faster Nürburgring time, a faster 0-100kmh time, a faster quarter mile time than the M2CS does not make it any more sporty than the M2CS. So performance aside there is something about the shape, the configurations and the dimensions of a car that makes a sports car

[Jimjamz]

I think I fell into the clickbait trap of this thread.

I don't actually care re the answer and respect the different opinions noted here.

Perhaps an equally valid question is:

M2 CS... a fun car or a funny car?

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Pretty funny. My second car was a Miata MX-5. It was one of my favourites. M2 CS less of a sports car? Hold my drink...

Yeah, I'd say higher performance obviously, but less of a traditional Sports Car for sure. Sports Cars are supposed to be lighthearted, and fun. The CS is a serious car that can get you into serious trouble very quickly. It's also managing rear tire slip constantly through TC, I mean, it's too powerful for its own good.

Take a Miata on The Dragon, then take your CS on The Dragon, then you'll know who the real Sports Car is, vs who the Monster is.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Fined

Nothing based on a 2 series is a sports car. It is too heavy, for one thing. Not on a chassis designed for sporting purposes for another. What makes a sports car is not defined by performance metrics. A GTR isn't a sports car either, its too heavy, performance metrics be damned. Sports cars are lightweight. 3,xxx is not lightweight.

That doesn't take away from the extremely impressive capabilities.

Well, there goes the Vette, NSX, Ford GT, Ferrari 458 and more or less every Ferrari, McLaren, and Lamborghini. More or less every Porsche, Mustang, and Camaro.... Leaves basically some Lotus's, the BRZ and the Miata I guess.

[sdhotwn]

The whole discussion is pedantic. That's the simple truth to it. It's more or less the whole horsepower versus torque argument. Circular as you are arguing about the same thing just separated by a time constant in that case and whether you are considering instants in time, broader character etc.

Once upon a time sports car was definitive because they were built to be a specific sporting purpose and were far and away separate from everything else made at the time. But we are talking back to the early 1900's effectively. It got blurrier and blurrier from there.

I find it silly that we make the argument that something with a "dedicated chassis" qualifies, but because something is shared with something pedestrian it doesn't. Especially given the modular architectures used by manufacturers today.

Sports car is as sports car does. Sporty car is as sporty car does. Race car is as race car does.

My CS is my track and fun car. Doesn't need any labels past that as far as I'm concerned. Call it whatever makes you happy. I'm happy - the big ass grin on my face when I'm behind the wheel, when I get out, and whenever I talk about it is plenty proof.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

The whole discussion is pedantic. That's the simple truth to it.

Some comments posted a couple of weeks before the Nov 2019 M2 CS launch (back then I had already sat inside the M2 CS) (also related to the pointless "real/pure M car" discussion):

Originally Posted by Artemis

Sometimes it feels like 8-yr old kids discussing their bicycle colors at the playground.

Maybe only the M3 and M4 survive in the subjective "real M car" eco-system approach of some. For some, even only the E30 M3 is worthy getting the ///M badge. As someone said: "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." Otherwise said, each individual should be allowed to pursue his/her strengths. In addition, a weakness in some area should not induce feelings of debilitating inferiority. Check the value you got for the money paid, what purpose you mainly use your car for (daily driver? track? mountains? mix?) and how much fun it provides when you do those things.

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 CS: a familiar face, that much is true, but this time around with a more intimidating, menacing frown, chin and muscle mass. With its proper dimensions, 'cool cat' stance and CS paraphernalia, the M2 CS oozes charisma, definitely.

Let's wait for more feedback about its driving dynamics, but considering its DNA and size, it looks like the driving fun stars are aligned with this new kid on the ///M block.

Originally Posted by Artemis

It's no secret anymore that the M2 CS will be launched this month and produced next year. Very recently BMW M boss Markus Flasch coined it as "probably the most crisp and pure BMW M model we have launched in quite some time" and "it's phenomenal and drives like a race car with license plates" (see here).

The future will tell whether this new kid on the ///M block lives up to its high expectations. Based on what I know so far, I trust that the M2 CS is bound to become a very desirable BMW M car, a quintessential automotive gem setting a new beemer bliss benchmark: a properly sized, fast & powerful rear-wheel drive 4-seater with great driving dynamics, fine-tuned reliable 3.0 6-cyl powerhouse, cool design & presence, decent boot space, creature comforts and available with manual gear stick & M-DCT. You can comfortably drive your partner + two kids to the circuit, lap the circuit and all return home again with a smile, including a stop to pick up groceries. Quite practical and versatile/multipurpose.

Moreover, the M2 CS will also be one of the last models before BMW and BMW M fully implement the new 'design language' of big front end grilles. Very likely the last generation at the gates of the future era of 'grillefication', electrification, more front-wheel drive & all-wheel drive, more automatic/ZF transmission, less 6-cylinder & exhaust drama and further tightened regulations. And, hence, IMHO the M2 CS stands a good chance to be reputed as 'vintage'/'classic' in the future (so-called 'future classic'), a pinnacle car tech toy with still an 'analog' twist (instead of going fully digital) facilitating emotional connection.

But it risks to be a challenge to get hold of an allocation (build slot) (2200 cars worldwide, all built in 2020), features a peculiar Bavarian blue launch color and an immodest price-tag for a BMW 2er.

Unlike the E46 M3 CSL (SMGII), E92 M3 GTS, E90 M3 CRT, E92 DTM Champion Edition (Spengler), F82 M4 GTS, F82 DTM Champion Edition (Wittmann), F82 M4 CS, F80 M3 CS and F82 Heritage Edition, manual transmission will be available as standard feature on the M2 CS. BMW M boss Flash confirmed last Summer - in a general way about BMW M cars - that currently no plans exist to discontinue the manual gearbox (see for example here). However, almost certainly we won't see the M-DCT on the next generation M2 (G87). The M-DCT is on its way out.

Originally Posted by Artemis

The badge is like a birth certificate.

Regardless of the badge, it's all about the DNA and legitimate expectations about the bloodline.

E30 M3 SPORT EVO: 175kW - 238hp - 0-100km/h: 6.5s | F87 M2 CS: 331kw - 450hp - 0-100km/h: 4.0s

[medphysdave]

At the end of the day it's about the "it" factor and I think that's what everyone is chasing regardless of the labels. The miata has it, the CS has it, GT3, 488, huracan. It could be the "it" factor just means we'll sorted. It certainly comes with an experience that elevates beyond driving. It's emotional. Maybe every car is capable of it with enough time and money thrown at the transformation. I'm not sure. I know the CS has it, and that's what I was after.

[msmatt]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

At the end of the day it's about the "it" factor and I think that's what everyone is chasing regardless of the labels. The miata has it, the CS has it, GT3, 488, huracan. It could be the "it" factor just means we'll sorted. It certainly comes with an experience that elevates beyond driving. It's emotional. Maybe every car is capable of it with enough time and money thrown at the transformation. I'm not sure. I know the CS has it, and that's what I was after.

So true!

[ptgltw]

My saying about the M2CS applies here as well:

If You Don't Know, You Don't Know