MotorTrend: The Best Sedans to Buy in 2021

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

To summarize then, Kia is "overall trash" and JD Power and Consumer Reports "are complete trash" but "if you want to know about cars, ask the guys that sell cars."

You got it.

Originally Posted by Tacoma

With due respect, I've spoken with a lot of 'guys that sells cars' over the years and many of them know little even of the cars they sell.

This is, sadly, very true nowdays. Gone are the good old days when salesmen knew about their products, and could drive a manual.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

If you want to know about cars, ask the guys that sell cars

IME, this is horrible advice.

If you want to know about buying a car, sure, but if you want to understand the car, it's operation, features, specs, design, etc., this has never ever worked for me. They don't know jack **** compared to most people on this or any other automotive site. Sure, there may be exceptions, but those are the exception IME, not the rule. Salespersons have one goal, get the person in and talking to the finance manager. The correlation with knowing the car is not really there in my experience.

[Darth One]

Member when people accused Motor Trend of being in BMW's pocket because BMW won every comparison test they did...?

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

IME, this is horrible advice.

I seek that guy out, and really, he's not too hard to find, you just can't be a sheep; walk in to a dealership and take the first salesperson that says hello.

Ask for the guy that knows his shit, and if he doesn't know more than you, move on.

The guys are still there, and yes, I said GUYS, but you might have to work a bit to find them.

[rbhjr01462]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

To summarize then, Kia is "overall trash" and JD Power and Consumer Reports "are complete trash" but "if you want to know about cars, ask the guys that sell cars."

With due respect, I've spoken with a lot of 'guys that sells cars' over the years and many of them know little even of the cars they sell. Many times I've asked a car salesman, even supposedly award winning ones, a technical detail and they simply got it wrong. If it's a question of whether one should believe JD Power that's based on scientific methods and CR based on statistical and analytical techniques, versus the opinion of a guy that sells cars - again, with all due respect - I'd trust JD Power and CR each and every time.

Oh and, BTW, according to the latest JD Power study, the three most dependable auto brands in the U.S. are now Lexus, Porsche and Kia. They said of Kia: "Kia vehicles have notably risen from among the least dependable auto brands in the U.S. to most dependable in just a decade, with 97 problems per 100 vehicles on average. Toyota was near the top of the list with 98 problems per 100 vehicles."

No bad for "overall trash." [PS: I can't believe I'm defending Kia!]

I had a KIA Sportage rental 2 years ago (with a few thousand miles on it). I was pretty impressed with the quality and 'feel' of the car - that coming from driving Volvo's, Acuras and BMW's the last 25 years. Especially considering how much less expensive KIAs are than the cars I have purchased over the years. Long term? Can't comment, but for the 800 miles I drove it I kind of liked it.