Condo Collapse

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

"The bottom slab is below average high tide." "During King Tide the structure was immersed in 2' of seawater." Sounds like a structural design flaw. Either the construction company did not build the structure to the engineering design, or the engineering design was not adequate.

Why change what I wrote to fit a different narrative?

In 1979, the tide levels were several feet lower. This issue did not exist. As the sea level has risen, storm water run-off outlets have turned into sea water inlets.

This is outside my previous home on one of the private islands in Miami Beach. It was a sunny day, no rainfall, during a spring high tide. I had Biscayne Bay waterfront both front and rear. Do you consider this a design flaw? Take a guess when the house was built.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

One things for sure is that saltwater will always exacerbate a potential flaw such as this..we were staying seven storeys up in hotel nearly on top at 5101 Collins Avenue couple years ago and that was a replacement hotel accommodation.
When we first arrived we were informed our original hotel in another part of Collins Ave had fire damage and stayed a night in a spartan Ocean Drive accommodation,a ''lively'' part of town I must say but after a few phone calls we got a much better room at 5101 with it's own private beach with refund for taxi's etc.

Ocean Drive North of 5th. You wouldn't recognize it now.

The two persons in the garage during the initial failure stated part of the garage floor gave way and cars were tilted with their alarms going off as they were waiting for the elevator. They entered, went up one floor, and as they stepped out of the cab, the center portion collapsed. The occupants in the unit directly above the area I noted escaped seconds before the second collapse. A loud boom from below startling them out of bed. They noticed doors had opened and very large cracks appeared in the walls near the floor. They began their exit a few minutes later and had just entered lobby when it all came down and ran out with the security guard and couple from the garage. Seconds made the difference for them.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Ocean Drive North of 5th. You wouldn't recognize it now.

The two persons in the garage during the initial failure stated part of the garage floor gave way and cars were tilted with their alarms going off as they were waiting for the elevator. They entered, went up one floor, and as they stepped out of the cab, the center portion collapsed. The occupants in the unit directly above the area I noted escaped seconds before the second collapse. A loud boom from below startling them out of bed. They noticed doors had opened and very large cracks appeared in the walls near the floor. They began their exit a few minutes later and had just entered lobby when it all came down and ran out with the security guard and couple from the garage. Seconds made the difference for them.

I'd guess real estate gets updated regularly in such a prime location as that. Few lucky people who got out of Champlain with seconds to spare..

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Why change what I wrote to fit a different narrative?

In 1979, the tide levels were several feet lower. This issue did not exist. As the sea level has risen, storm water run-off outlets have turned into sea water inlets.

This is outside my previous home on one of the private islands in Miami Beach. It was a sunny day, no rainfall, during a spring high tide. I had Biscayne Bay waterfront both front and rear. Do you consider this a design flaw? Take a guess when the house was built.

I'm on the same narrative. The environment changes over time. Build close to the ocean, don't consider a static environment.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm on the same narrative. The environment changes over time. Build close to the ocean, don't consider a static environment.

I'll have a more thorough response to that after the remains of 2 individuals I know are recovered.

There are some honest but scathing hidden truths about this development and others like it near by that need to come out of the shadows once and for all.

I understand the inference you're making, but it seems to be solely based on a retrospective angle; My home was built in 1928; the environment where it was built didn't exist until 1920. Saying it was short sighted for Carl Fisher to not factor in a fluctuating environment at the time when such phenomenon was not understood is the wrong approach.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by lemetier

I'll have a more thorough response to that after the remains of 2 individuals I know are recovered.

There are some honest but scathing hidden truths about this development and others like it near by that need to come out of the shadows once and for all.

I understand the inference you're making, but it seems to be solely based on a retrospective angle; My home was built in 1928; the environment where it was built didn't exist until 1920. Saying it was short sighted for Carl Fisher to not factor in a fluctuating environment at the time when such phenomenon was not understood is the wrong approach.

My house, the original cabin, was built in the late 1750's. The house sits on 40 acres with a small river about 250 feet from the house. Other parts of the house were built in 1852, and 1955. To my knowledge, the house has never been flooded. The river changes from 3" deep to 6 feet deep depending on storm conditions. Obviously the house was placed correctly from common sense experience, since it's been there for 250+ years. There wasn't much climate science back in the 1750's.

To me, the condo building was a bit of a push engineering wise; it obviously failed. Post event, one can only look at it retrospectively. There have been reports of greed involved in construction inspections of that era, late 1970's. That would be a different narrative then, but I can't understand how a architecture firm that designed the building, didn't monitor the construction project and leave the validity of the manufacture of the building in the hands of a third party; there is too much liability involved.

Your house, seems to be placed correctly as well.

[DieselDiner]

Originally Posted by lemetier

The two persons in the garage during the initial failure stated part of the garage floor gave way and cars were tilted with their alarms going off as they were waiting for the elevator. They entered, went up one floor, and as they stepped out of the cab, the center portion collapsed. The occupants in the unit directly above the area I noted escaped seconds before the second collapse. A loud boom from below startling them out of bed. They noticed doors had opened and very large cracks appeared in the walls near the floor. They began their exit a few minutes later and had just entered lobby when it all came down and ran out with the security guard and couple from the garage. Seconds made the difference for them.

Is there a link for this story, or (it sounds like maybe) you heard this first hand? Incredible details.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by DieselDiner

Is there a link for this story, or (it sounds like maybe) you heard this first hand? Incredible details.

The couple that were in the garage are Gimena Accardi and Nicolas Vazquez - both well known Argentine actors. I know they have shared something publicly; to what extent I don't know. Doing my best to limit media stories.

I don't know if the others who exited with them have done so as well. I'm sure they have but with this heading towards multiple Grand Juries, I'm not spending time looking that up.

[RickFLM4]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...252421658.html

[ASAP]

I don't know about foul play but dear god, there is criminal amounts of negligence coming out...

From the HOA, to the city saying everything was OK, to the inspections that seemed to have been disregarded... there are may parties at fault here and all simply due to complete indifference.

[Littlebear]

I think a lot of buildings are going to see an increase in monthly fees to cover inspections, fixes, etc. People are going to start worrying about the diminishing ground support that wasn't expected when they built.
Or they all could ignore it.

[TiMSport]

There are still 150 people still unaccounted for. Sad.

[erickonphoenix]

It appears the missing list is shrinking as they find some residents were out of pocket. But the final number will be pretty bad.

[TheVazha]

Someone who has a better understanding of the moving parts please explain to me why it's taking them forever to make progress. When this happened I was floored. Days and days later I saw local politicians making news appearances with the site in the background but it didn't look like anything had progressed. Days and days it just looked like an unfortunate pile of rubble with people's loved ones possibly buried in it. Don't they have the resources to surround the site with people and have everyone start to peel away at the site and pass the rock, pebble, whatever small fragment to the person behind them and so on? I picture ants, hundreds/thousands of them slowly eroding away at something. Little by little.

It just seems like they spent 5 days strategizing, mostly on the PR.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by TheVazha

Someone who has a better understanding of the moving parts please explain to me why it's taking them forever to make progress. When this happened I was floored. Days and days later I saw local politicians making news appearances with the site in the background but it didn't look like anything had progressed. Days and days it just looked like an unfortunate pile of rubble with people's loved ones possibly buried in it. Don't they have the resources to surround the site with people and have everyone start to peel away at the site and pass the rock, pebble, whatever small fragment to the person behind them and so on? I picture ants, hundreds/thousands of them slowly eroding away at something. Little by little.

It just seems like they spent 5 days strategizing, mostly on the PR.

Because the pile is unstable at various points. You can't just indescriminantly move around debris/rubble. Moving stuff around could cause things to shift and if there is someone that is alive could kill them.. Not to mention there is a fire going on under that rubble that was initially a problem but the firefighters now have it under control.

Oh and there was a report of a search and rescue personnel falling 25 ft into a void in the rubble. So it's also dangerous for the rescuers to work on that pile.

[monkeyjuice5150]

Resource, and people already gave up. Now its just PR for ammos.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by TheVazha

Someone who has a better understanding of the moving parts please explain to me why it's taking them forever to make progress. When this happened I was floored. Days and days later I saw local politicians making news appearances with the site in the background but it didn't look like anything had progressed. Days and days it just looked like an unfortunate pile of rubble with people's loved ones possibly buried in it. Don't they have the resources to surround the site with people and have everyone start to peel away at the site and pass the rock, pebble, whatever small fragment to the person behind them and so on? I picture ants, hundreds/thousands of them slowly eroding away at something. Little by little.

It just seems like they spent 5 days strategizing, mostly on the PR.

I mirror your thoughts and it comes down to simply that there is so much concrete and rubble and not enough back up to deal with it. Miami Dade governor was just saying that we'll get to the bottom of this...ineffective.

[DieselDiner]

Many details that include:

Searchers dug a 40-foot-deep trench through the site to assist with their efforts, which were temporarily halted early Sunday when the rubble shifted. The trench provided access to new areas, Miami-Dade County authorities said. Rescue work is proceeding slowly in part because the 136-unit building's rubble itself has "forensic" value and is being trucked to a warehouse for investigation into the cause of the collapse.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...am/5363235001/

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by DieselDiner

Many details that include:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...am/5363235001/

I'm shocked at that boxed piece..to a layman when knocking was heard under the collapse decisions were made to excavate slowly for forensic value to establish cause of collapse?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I'm shocked at that boxed piece..to a layman when knocking was heard under the collapse decisions were made to excavate slowly for forensic value to establish cause of collapse?

No, that’s not a fair summarization of everything going on. There have also been fires and a need to find and clear away paths to pockets where people might be without killing rescuers or anyone who may be alive under the rubble. Sadly, the chance of finding survivors has been very low since they started but they can’t quickly move debris aside with heavy equipment without increasing the risk of making things worse. This will be going on for a while.

[ramman434]

Just now back online since last Thursday. This is a terrible tragedy rocking our S. FL community right now.

I have good friends that have a home in Surfside. When I heard the news, I immediately checked in with them. They can/could see the building from their front yard. They didn't even hear the actual collapse when it happened. Instead they woke up to the sound of tons of helicopters circling the area.

[monkeyjuice5150]

Would the Real Estate Market still be hot in South Florida, Miami Beach? Esp the Condos? I wouldn't want to buy one right now. Locals, do you think the Condo market will crash because of this? Or ppl don't give a F, and will just buy.