Reed Hickson - The question of vaccination [Closed Due To Politics]

[Joe T]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Your employer is incredibly wrong. Studies all show having had Covid previously is much more powerful immunity than the vaccine as it is with every other freaking disease. They’ve always known that. If you actually had the measles that’s better then getting the vaccination for it. So as you pointed out this is much more than people believing the vaccination is good. This is all about control. It has to be now that we know all the science behind everything and have known most of it for a long time anyway.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...ural-immunity/

We agree... it was client driven. We're in healthcare (both LTC and acute care) and the federal gov (prisons require all contractors to be vaccinated to enter). If we can't see clients, we can't work. Other clients aren't mandating vaccines yet. Interestingly enough, most of the healthcare clients were mandated by the state gov which carried over to vendors

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

The unfortunate situation is people are selfish and won't do the right thing for the betterment of others. Case in point. How many times have parents sent their kids to school knowing they are sick? How many times have people gone into work knowing they are sick but still do it even though they risk getting other coworkers sick? It's because of these behaviors that I see why mandates are being put into place.

I'm for mandates but only done in a smart way. The discussion about natural immunity is one thing that is not being captured in these mandates. Nor are specific medical reasons. I dated a lady who didn't get vaccinated by choice. She had severe reactions to past vaccines. She wants to get vaccinated but under advice from her doctor was told the risks for her are not worth it until more data is collected that can apply to her situation. I understand that and respect that. This is the problem when you have people making decisions under knee jerk reactions and having specific agendas without focusing purely on the medical aspects.

For me, I did get the Pfizer vaccine. This is coming from someone who has never had a Flu vaccine. I got it because if this is how we get back to normal faster, I'm all for it. As I've said before in other threads, the risks these vaccines pose are a cake walk compared to the crap I've had put into my body through chemotherapy. Want to see what real risks are? Take a look at all the side effects and risks from doing FOLFOX6 therapy. Granted my views on risks and my risk tolerance are all screwed up due to having faced my own mortality multiple times.

I got vaccinated for selfish reasons; protection of my personal health. Also like you, the flu vaccine I usually pass on even though, depending on numerous factors, between 30,000 to 60,000 Americans die each year from the flu. If people don't want to get COVID vaccinated then that's their choice; if the science is to believed (or trusted, maybe) they increase their risk of succumbing to the disease. And like you, I participate in a high-risk activity, I am a motorcyclist.

Perhaps if COVID-19 didn't arise during the previous Executive Branch administration, which was hyper-politicized, and as a result the Government's reaction to and treatment of the pandemic wasn't hyper-politicized, the concept of mandating vaccinations wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately we are where we are. The concern for many is when we break the ice on mandating vaccinations in response to COVID-19 and indirectly mandate face coverings by forcing businesses to regulate adherence, where does it stop? Once COVID-19 has mutated out of existence, will the Federal government mandate mask use and vaccinations during flu season? Mandate vaccination and face coverings for minor pandemics far less life-threatening than SARS-2?

The previous Administration's initial treatment of the pandemic was two hospital ships anchored in LA and New York, the standup of field hospitals to counteract the prospective inundation of the US healthcare system (i.e. a shortage of ICU beds), adjacent industries producing shortages of PPE and medical devices, and a severe shutdown of economic activity, all criticized at the time as "too little too late". Yet, now with shutdowns clearly out of the picture amid the time of the Delta variant that is more contagious and people on this thread hyperventilating about ICU bed shortages, no hospital ships are setting sail, no military MASH-esque stand up of field ICUs are occurring; it seems the answer is mandating vaccinations, and again placing the burden on American businesses. And with no criticism from the Press.

Perplexing as much as mandated helmet use perhaps?

[ASAP]

I think the Vaccines do work as I have Moderna... I've been exposed many times and never caught anything however there are a few comments that I do have-

1) It seems that breakthrough cases are becoming more and more common. I do not believe the high efficacy from catching the virus is real. I think that statistic is very seriously padded. In fact, I have no idea why the vaccines were marketed this way, I've never heard of any vaccine being marketed this way.

2) They should have simply left the marketing campaign at- it prevents hospitalizations and severe infection at about 95%... no more and left it at that.

3) I don't recall any vaccine in history that has been 95% effective especially with such a short term study. I think again this number is padded.

4) I haven't heard much recently about Covid treatments or improvements outside of the Monoclocal antibodies... no new pills etc just some nonsense about ivermectin and other random shit.

5) Why had scientists not been able to genome sequence people that have gotten extremely sick vs those that have been asymptomatic? We still have no idea why some have sniffles and others get very sick.

6) Why is everyone so hesistant with vaccine mandates even in medical settings when virtually every other vaccine is mandated?

7) Boosters - why so quickly? Again, no other vaccine in history has had one this early.

Simply put - there are things that just don't add up at all in this entire mess and the CDC has no fumbled so many times with the masks / guidance that I think it will be 10 years before we really know what happened.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Goofing... but in this over-saturated PC world we've been newly introduced to, where we can't even call people by their birth-pronouns, we still use the terms "Businessmen" and "Gunman" in semi-derogatory temperament.

Just sayin'

I will proudly use both businessman and gunman as fully derogatory terms, none of your snowflake semi-derogatives (and I don't care what/how/who the person identifies as in terms of gender). The answer isn't a new set of pronouns, it is using the old ones in an inclusive manner, where 'mankind' means all humans, not just white, english-speaking property-owners (that's how it was used in the days when 'all men are created equal' was penned, and we've come a long way from that already). Now get off my lawn.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I will proudly use both businessman and gunman as fully derogatory terms, none of your snowflake semi-derogatives (and I don't care what/how/who the person identifies as in terms of gender). The answer isn't a new set of pronouns, it is using the old ones in an inclusive manner, where 'mankind' means all humans, not just white, english-speaking property-owners (that's how it was used in the days when 'all men are created equal' was penned, and we've come a long way from that already). Now get off my lawn.

And what, may I ask, is the color of your Torino?

[sygazelle]

So far we are three pages into this thread and the responses are very interesting. Hat's off to all of you for keeping it, for the most part, your personal views of the topic and not sink into the politic or religious realm that will surely get this thread deleted.

I knew the responses would vary and vary they have. As I get older, I become increasingly aware of just how different we all think about virtually everything. Almost nothing is black and white and the shades of gray are incredibly interesting and complex.

Thanks to those who have already contributed. Hopefully, we can keep it civil and not get deleted.

All the best, regardless of your position on this topic.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Your employer is incredibly wrong. Studies all show having had Covid previously is much more powerful immunity than the vaccine as it is with every other freaking disease. They’ve always known that....

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...ural-immunity/

Pls check your "facts" again.
That Kennedy dude has no validity at all.

"For most immunities, vaccines not only are safer but produce a more robust response. This includes vaccines for HPV, tetanus, and pneumonia; mumps is an exception. "
https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/03/19...n-better-15409

"Benefit of Vaccines:
 Varicella (chickenpox) vaccine was licensed in 1995. Since 1996, the number of hospitalizations and deaths from varicella has declined more than 90%.
 1 dose of varicella is 85% effective in preventing any form of chickenpox and almost 100% effective against severe chickenpox.
 In pre-licensure studies: 2 doses of varicella are 98% effective at preventing any form of varicella and 100% effective against severe chickenpox.
 In post-licensure studies: 2 doses of varicella vaccine are 88-98% effective at preventing all chickenpox.
 Human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine – The high purity of the specific protein in the
vaccine leads to a better immune response than natural infection.
 Tetanus vaccine – The toxin made by tetanus is so potent that the amount that causes
disease is actually lower than the amount that induces a long-lasting immune response.
This is why people with tetanus disease are still recommended to get the vaccine.
 Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) vaccine – children less than 2 years old do not
typically make a good response to the complex sugar coating (polysaccharide) on the
surface of Hib that causes disease; however, the vaccine links this polysaccharide to a
helper protein that creates a better immune response than would occur naturally.
Therefore, children less than 2 years old who get Hib disease are still recommended to
get the vaccine.
 Pneumococcal vaccine – This vaccine works the same way as the Hib vaccine to create a
better immune response than natural infection."
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/m...y_479884_7.pdf

"By closely examining the results, the researchers uncovered important differences between acquired immunity in people who’d been vaccinated and unvaccinated people who’d been previously infected with SARS-CoV-2. Specifically, antibodies elicited by the mRNA vaccine were more focused to the RBD compared to antibodies elicited by an infection, which more often targeted other portions of the spike protein. Importantly, the vaccine-elicited antibodies targeted a broader range of places on the RBD than those elicited by natural infection.
"These findings suggest that natural immunity and vaccine-generated immunity to SARS-CoV-2 will differ in how they recognize new viral variants. What’s more, antibodies acquired with the help of a vaccine may be more likely to target new SARS-CoV-2 variants potently, even when the variants carry new mutations in the RBD."
"A third difference is that natural infection only exposes the body to the virus in the respiratory tract (unless the illness is very severe), while the vaccine is delivered to muscle, where the immune system may have an even better chance of seeing it and responding vigorously."
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/0...-an-infection/

[MsGoGoMoto]

A whole page single post over a few shots.
Take the shots like you did to get in public school.. Just a no brainer, shouldn't even be a battle posting internet science links and banging out paragraphs to argue vaccines on a car forum. y'all funny! But people dying from COVID isn't funny. Be careful out there

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The previous Administration's initial treatment of the pandemic was two hospital ships anchored in LA and New York

Not trying to butt into your convo but this statement caught my attention. I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought it was the state governors who requested those ships and not the Federal government. That was also a full wave of COVID ago when NYC and LA, both accessible by ship, were in tough shape. Now we've got FL, whose governor appears content to believe there's no problem in his state and a ton of land-locked mid west and rocky mountain states with COVID spikes. Ships cant really do much for us here, no?

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Your employer is incredibly wrong. Studies all show having had Covid previously is much more powerful immunity than the vaccine as it is with every other freaking disease. They’ve always known that. If you actually had the measles that’s better then getting the vaccination for it. So as you pointed out this is much more than people believing the vaccination is good. This is all about control. It has to be now that we know all the science behind everything and have known most of it for a long time anyway.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/d...ural-immunity/

Using that kennedy guys website again huh? If you want any credibility, I would not go back to that, I would not read that, I would would go back and publicly repudiate the children's health net work, or whatever the fuck it calls itself. It's more like the Kennedy death cult. Kind of like the Abbot death cult, and Trump death cult.

[Our03z4]

Originally Posted by Maitre_Absolut

If you refuse the vaccine, you should not be eligible for treatment if you get it. Simple as that. But we all now when shit hits the fan then the science is real lol

I agree. I also I think you shouldn't be eligible for heart surgery if you eat fast food, smoke or don't exercise regularly. If you drink you shouldn't be able to have dialysis or a liver transplant. If you smoke lung transplants or cancer related treatments off the table including dental. If you were driving over the posted speed limit and get in an accident then you shouldn't receive treatment as well. It's simple if your actions have a part in your condition too bad.

As someone who was in the emergency medical field for 13 years some of these comments make me sick. And to the guy who said his wife was refused a bed, what happened to her? Was the issue a cause of her actions? In one way or another it was...unless someone else caused the injury?

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Our03z4

I agree. I also I think you shouldn't be eligible for heart surgery if you eat fast food, smoke or don't exercise regularly. If you drink you shouldn't be able to have dialysis or a liver transplant. If you smoke lung transplants or cancer related treatments off the table including dental. If you were driving over the posted speed limit and get in an accident then you shouldn't receive treatment as well. It's simple if your actions have a part in your condition too bad.

As someone who was in the emergency medical field for 13 years some of these comments make me sick. And to the guy who said his wife was refused a bed, what happened to her? Was the issue a cause of her actions? In one way or another it was...unless someone else caused the injury?

Whataboutism . My wife had some kind of throat virus, not coronavirus. Remember about flattening the curve? And the anti-vaxxers are not into flattening the curve, they're not taking the vaccine, and it seems they are largely not masking up either. They're being selfish, not being patriotic. They are the problem, not the solution.


And high blood pressure, heart disease, alcoholism, etc., etc. have been problems for humanity for a long time. But they didn't unexpectedly kill over 700,000 Americans in the last 18 months.

[TR930]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Whataboutism . My wife had some kind of throat virus, not coronavirus. Remember about flattening the curve? And the anti-vaxxers are not into flattening the curve, they're not taking the vaccine, and it seems they are largely not masking up either. They're being selfish, not being patriotic. They are the problem, not the solution.


And high blood pressure, heart disease, alcoholism, etc., etc. have been problems for humanity for a long time. But they didn't unexpectedly kill over 700,000 Americans in the last 18 months.

Did they die OF Covid or die with Covid? It's sad to hear of a young person dying, for whatever reason truth is, young people died in 2019, 2018, etc.

I'm in the group of people who look at the data and say nothing warrants mandating these shots to people.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by TR930

Did they die OF Covid or die with Covid? ....

Your attempt to sow doubt is thwarted by the "Excess Deaths" figures, which show that if anything the CDC covid death #s are low.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by TR930

Did they die OF Covid or die with Covid? It's sad to hear of a young person dying, for whatever reason truth is, young people died in 2019, 2018, etc.

I'm in the group of people who look at the data and say nothing warrants mandating these shots to people.

Are you responding to my post or another? Your response is weird, really not responding to what I said.

As a baseball fan, I'm reading OF as outfielder. Did you mean something else?

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Are you responding to my post or another? Your response is weird, really not responding to what I said.

As a baseball fan, I'm reading OF as outfielder. Did you mean something else?

TR thinks there is a conspiracy to jack up the #s of people recorded as dying of covid, as opposed to people who, say, had a little harmless covid in them but really died of diabetes or some other pre-existing condition.
He probably thinks the hospitals are raking in the dough by writing "covid" on the death certificate!

[MightyMouseTech]

My sister is an ICU doc. Get your fucking shots (mRNA, not J&J). Everyone. Period.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

My sister is an ICU doc. Get your fucking shots (mRNA, not J&J). Everyone. Period.

My sister is a banker. Get your own fucking shot and leave my family alone.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Patton250

My sister is a banker. Get your own fucking shot and leave my family alone.

Here's how this works: If your family promises to wear masks, or not interact with other people, that's great. But if they don't get the vaccine, interact with other people, and don't wear masks, they're putting other people in danger.

It's that simple. Do you get it now? Or is your emotional investment so strong that you cannot see reason?

[TR930]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

Here's how this works: If your family promises to wear masks, or not interact with other people, that's great. But if they don't get the vaccine, interact with other people, and don't wear masks, they're putting other people in danger.

It's that simple. Do you get it now? Or is your emotional investment so strong that you cannot see reason?

Masks are about as useless as this thread.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by TR930

Masks are about as useless as this thread.

Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it.
Very sad.

[TR930]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it.
Very sad.

Your responses are about as useless as masks and this thread.