Formula 1 Gran Premio De España Santander 2012

[johanness]

Originally Posted by Echo M3

I bet you would be in this thread saying the same thing if it was Vettel, not Hamilton.

That sure sounds like a fan-boy comment. Rules are rules. McLaren trying to say it was force majeure is total weak-sauce. Who knows? Maybe if they had budgeted enough fuel he wouldn't have sat on pole? It's clear he doesn't manage his tires well under load.

I still blame Pirelli for this crap qualifying round. Watching 3 drivers not put any effort into Q3 because they want to save their finicky princess tires? Garbage.

Originally Posted by Impervious

McLaren needs to get their act together.

This

[Alow]

I agree that rules are rules, and McLaren needs to get their act together. But the penalty does seem harsh. I think being disqualified from Q3 was enough. Recovering from 10th place wouldn't have been easy, especially at this track. I think they went a bit too far with the penalty.

[EINSER M]

Originally Posted by Alow

I agree that rules are rules, and McLaren needs to get their act together. But the penalty does seem harsh. I think being disqualified from Q3 was enough. Recovering from 10th place wouldn't have been easy, especially at this track. I think they went a bit too far with the penalty.

reminder that this is HAM's 2nd infraction to the rule (previously @ last year's Canadian GP)...

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by EINSER M

rules are rules! sorry HAM fanbois! P24 for HAM?

Not trying to antagonize? Using the term 'fanboi' suggests otherwise. There are plenty of other forums I'd invite you to visit if you insist in attempting to elicit a critical response.

Anyways, fan or not. Going from pole with a 0.5s gap to dead last, behind even HRT is ridiculous. This is the FIA making an example, and of Hamilton none the less. I agree a 5 place penalty or exclusion of qualy 3 results would have been more appropriate. Just 3 extra litres of fuel would have been enough to get him home, and certainly aren't enough to provide 0.5s worth of benefit.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by EINSER M

reminder that this is HAM's 2nd infraction to the rule (previously @ last year's Canadian GP)...

The first infraction wasn't actually an infraction as the rule didn't exist yet, nor had even been applied to qualifying. Proof of such is the lack of penalty in Montreal.

Rules are rules, but penalties are not rules.

[EINSER M]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Not trying to antagonize? Using the term 'fanboi' suggests otherwise. There are plenty of other forums I'd invite you to visit if you insist in attempting to elicit a critical response.

Anyways, fan or not. Going from pole with a 0.5s gap to dead last, behind even HRT is ridiculous. This is the FIA making an example, and of Hamilton none the less. I agree a 5 place penalty or exclusion of qualy 3 results would have been more appropriate. Just 3 extra litres of fuel would have been enough to get him home, and certainly aren't enough to provide 0.5s worth of benefit.

I get called a VET fanboi all day long, it doesnt bother me a bit because that is what I am!
maybe the comment was too virulent for some, for that i can apologize

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by EINSER M

I get called a VET fanboi all day long, it doesnt bother me a bit because that is what I am!
maybe the comment was too virulent for some, for that i can apologize

In all honesty, everyone is a fanboi of something. However, knowing this to be true makes it unnecessary in my mind to mention. Which means when it is, it usually isn't under friendly circumstances since the word has strong negative implications. Though, not saying that I don't enjoy rivalry. F1 is all about competition, but not about humiliation or degrading of opposition. That is left for the track!

Truth be told, I am a Hamilton fanboi. However, I typically try to avoid blind faith when possible.

[UltimateBMW]

I'll also agree that McLaren 'STILL' needs to get their act together. Sam Michael isn't proving to be much of a benefit.

This needs to be Ron Dennis come monday.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

There are plenty of other forums I'd invite you to visit if you insist in attempting to elicit a critical response.

LOL. Who are you to suggest anything? Typical double-standard of LH fans... they can dish it out, but can't take it.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by johanness

LOL. Who are you to suggest anything? Typical double-standard of LH fans... they can dish it out, but can't take it.

Double standard? What are you talking about?

The internet is full of name calling and jackasses. I like this forum (the racing section) because it is mostly void of that behavior, and I would like to keep it as such.

As a Hamilton fan, I do more than my fair share of taking it btw.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I like this forum (the racing section) because it is mostly void of that behavior, and I would like to keep it as such.

Absolutely, but it weighs a lot more on the side of the LH fans. I'll remind you of that next time

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by johanness

Absolutely, but it weighs a lot more on the side of the LH fans. I'll remind you of that next time

If I step out of line, I hope you do. I am human like everyone. I won't say I don't need reminders once in a while. Though, I do make an effort not to bash other users in this forum.

But, point taken.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by EINSER M

not trying to antagonize you here buddy but you surely don't expect stewards to reward mclaren by letting them slide with a low fuel violation do you? what force majeure was there in this case? oh someone didnt fuel the car enough is force majeure?

I definitely do not expect them to let anything slide. I stated that I am fine with Mclaren and Hamilton serving a penalty. What I object to is the severity of the punishment.

You don't find this punishment harsh? Starting from 24th on the grid without any new tires? In Formula 1, penalties are usually not automatic; there is usually some discretion given to the stewards, so that they can adjudicate based on the circumstance. And in this situation, I feel they were overly harsh.

You've been around long enough to know that I am not a Lewis Hamilton fan, and will criticize him when he deserves it. But this is not one of those moments, IMO.

[EINSER M]

no bashing no shit talking no war declarations on here!
just a little pushing and shoving and good laughs
everyone wants their teams and drivers to win!

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by johanness

That sure sounds like a fan-boy comment. Rules are rules. McLaren trying to say it was force majeure is total weak-sauce. Who knows? Maybe if they had budgeted enough fuel he wouldn't have sat on pole? It's clear he doesn't manage his tires well under load.

I still blame Pirelli for this crap qualifying round. Watching 3 drivers not put any effort into Q3 because they want to save their finicky princess tires? Garbage.



This

As I said above, if you go back to some of the previous race threads, you will realize pretty quickly that I am not a Hamilton "fan boy". Quite the opposite. I just think that his penalty is excessive, considering it is the first time that they have broken this rule, and that he did not gain anything (he would have been on pole, regardless of his fuel level). A 10-place grid penalty is given for an engine change, but a 24-place penalty is given for being short 1 L of petrol in Q3? Sounds harsh to me.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Double standard? What are you talking about?

The internet is full of name calling and jackasses. I like this forum (the racing section) because it is mostly void of that behavior, and I would like to keep it as such.

As a Hamilton fan, I do more than my fair share of taking it btw.

I completely agree with you. I tend to find that people resort to the "fan boy" argument when their own argument has run out of steam.

[EINSER M]

Originally Posted by Echo M3

I definitely do not expect them to let anything slide. I stated that I am fine with Mclaren and Hamilton serving a penalty. What I object to is the severity of the punishment.

You don't find this punishment harsh? Starting from 24th on the grid without any new tires? In Formula 1, penalties are usually not automatic; there is usually some discretion given to the stewards, so that they can adjudicate based on the circumstance. And in this situation, I feel they were overly harsh.

You've been around long enough to know that I am not a Lewis Hamilton fan, and will criticize him when he deserves it. But this is not one of those moments, IMO.

ha ha ok ok i'll admit P24 is super harsh. in my eyes HAM has made a conscious effort to race better this year than he did last year and this is just a series of bad luck coming from his team that are affecting his chances to the world championship. that being said, this remains a team sport and the punishment isn't because he is black or because its ALO's home race as a lot of HAM fans seem to be saying it is. FIA didn't hand down this penalty because of any of that. And this might be his first official infraction of the rule as pointed earlier when the rule didnt exist last year, but maybe stewards are trying to send out a message here...
in any event, waking up early here on the west coast will be super exciting looking fwd to watching this race unfold!

[gary88]

At least Q2 was exciting. Shame Button and Webber didn't make it through though. I was really hoping Alonso would hold that provisional pole in Q3

[gary88]

Also, 17th Massa? Really? He needs to be booted soon.

[UltimateBMW]

I'd also like to say that though he got penalized, regardless of his Q3 lap, Hamilton was putting down some mighty laps this qualifying. I just hope this penalty doesn't get him off his game and that he can keep his head clear for the race. If he finally gets the luck he is due, you could definitely get back into the points.

And congrats to Maldonado for his career first pole. I don't really like the guy, but it is quite an accomplishment to get a pole in F1. Especially with his present company.

[justinnum1]

P24? LMFAO

[EINSER M]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I'd also like to say that though he got penalized, regardless of his Q3 lap, Hamilton was putting down some mighty laps this qualifying. I just hope this penalty doesn't get him off his game and that he can keep his head clear for the race. If he finally gets the luck he is due, you could definitely get back into the points.

And congrats to Maldonado for his career first pole. I don't really like the guy, but it is quite an accomplishment to get a pole in F1. Especially with his present company.

i am unclear on something
is the 1L sample given at the end of each Qualifying session and end of the race? or just the end of Q3 and the race?