Do you think the E46 M3 is a future $100k car?

[DanG]

I had an E46 M3 and it was a nightmare after 100,000 miles. Yearly maintenance was close to the used car value. I happily got rid of it. I did have to pay the dealer tax to maintain it though.

My current M2 is hands down a much better car to drive. I have a hard time believing the E46 M3 will ever be worth more than an M2.

[e90Jenks]

never~

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by DanG

I had an E46 M3 and it was a nightmare after 100,000 miles. Yearly maintenance was close to the used car value. I happily got rid of it. I did have to pay the dealer tax to maintain it though.

My current M2 is hands down a much better car to drive. I have a hard time believing the E46 M3 will ever be worth more than an M2.

oh it will and then the M2 will come around and catch up. Its kind of crazy since there are so many E46s and actually not many M2s.

That said the E46 is one of the best looking M cars and at least for people around my age a real hero car that I dreamt of when I was in college. But I bought an M2 Comp because also looks good, low miles, warranty and hella fun (I would still love to own a E46 some time but as a companion to the F87)

[Housekeeping]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

For the time when it arrived on the market in 2000 (2001 model year), it was an astoundingly fast car. It's just a touch, if that, slower than the E39 M5, but that doesn't really show up until 100+ mph. Car and Driver test data for the two cars is almost the same in the 1/4 mile (trap speed where the M5 is 1mph faster). For two completely stock as new running cars, it's a driver's race to see which wins in the 1/4...it's very close. I was trying to decide between the two at the time and ended up buying the M5 and owning it for 15 years.

Here's their quote about the E46: Our M3 arrived in July 2001 and quickly captivated the hotshoes in the office with its amazing acceleration and sure-footed handling. With 1940 miles on it, we took the M3 to the test track and measured a 0-to-60 time of 4.5 seconds and a standing quarter-mile of 13.1 seconds at 107 mph. The electric-blue M3 also showed great grip, managing 0.87 g on the skidpad and stopping from 70 mph in 161 feet. Not bad for a car that can hold four adults and a decent load of luggage.

I wasn’t comparing the two,I simply said it should have had the E39s V8 with 400hp.

[W///]

Originally Posted by MooMooM2

yeah, I get anxiety listening to that guy. Its just too much. Like sure take care of your cars but I highly doubt he is even enjoying the cars since not a spec of dust can fall on the car before he has a meltdown and has to fully detail the thing.

I think he is giving away the other M3, aka sell raffle tickets so he will make a good amount on it. Apparently that M3 was a front collision so you know the dude cannot sleep a night knowing that, so he will raffle and probably get a ton of money giving it away and now has a 800 mile version. I will say this, he does sell some good products but not a very humble dude with some major OCD issues.

Same, outside of my M2, every car I own is closer to 100k miles. I bought my car to enjoy, not Q-tip every nut and bolt under the car. Personally, I have no problem with people that are like that (I quite enjoy detailing videos), but it just seems he scoffs at any car that gets used. I was excited about him getting a Techno Violet E36 M3 as that's what I have, but I only made it through 2 videos before his OCD started to annoy me.

Good for him for starting a successful business though!

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

I wasn’t comparing the two,I simply said it should have had the E39s V8 with 400hp.

I think the e46 M3 would be worse with an s62, at least in the form that it came in the M5/Z8.

Part of what makes for a good drivers car is high redline, peak hp near redline, and not a ton of power down low. That forces you to work for your speed, and working for speed is what makes a good driver's car. The s62 is the opposite experience of that.

You can call that my opinion, but if you think about all of the great drivers cars through history, they all have that in common-- Porsche GT cars, Ferraris that people care about, integras, S2000s, NSX.

Torque is boring.

Plus, the s62 doesn't allow space for R&P steering.... so e39 M5's got steering boxes. They still feel light years better than anything BMW sells today, but they're not nearly as good as the e46 (or 6 cylinder e39s).

... as a result, I found my e39 530i more rewarding to drive than my e39 M5. Less weight, more effort for speed, better steering, = more fun. Power isn't that important to how fun a car is to drive, and 0-60 in 4.5-4.8 (depending on the publication you read) is plenty enough to keep up with traffic, on street or track.

Which, is why the CSL is so coveted today. It focused on exactly what actually could make the e46 M3 better-- less weight. Getting it down to 3080-3150 lbs (depending on how you specced it) is freaking amazing. I've been working on getting weight out of my e46 M3 coupe for 16 years, and I've only just recently gotten it under 3100 lbs with full interior and a quiet muffler.

... if you built a more race spec S62 (solid lifters for higher redline, cams to shift the powerband towards to the right, long tube headers to support the high RPMs, dry sump to allow R&P)... that I could see being a good time in an e46. That said, it would also add weight on the nose, which is sub optimal. The S62 also seems to pump out a ton more heat, which means it would need a lot more cooling system for the type of track use M3s see, which would add even more weight.

At the end of the day, the S54 is one of the greatest engines ever made and the S62 is... good.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by W///

Same, outside of my M2, every car I own is closer to 100k miles. I bought my car to enjoy, not Q-tip every nut and bolt under the car. Personally, I have no problem with people that are like that (I quite enjoy detailing videos), but it just seems he scoffs at any car that gets used. I was excited about him getting a Techno Violet E36 M3 as that's what I have, but I only made it through 2 videos before his OCD started to annoy me.

Good for him for starting a successful business though!

I made it through 1 of his videos and couldn't take anymore.
My M3 coupe is sitting at 160,000 miles, 20,000 of which were on track.
My M3 wagon is coming up on 210,000 miles
My e39 M5 is over 190,000 miles
My e60 M5 is at 110,000 miles
My e39 530i was at 280,000 miles when I sold it.
My e36 M3 street car (also techno) had 220,000 on it when I sold it.

Two of those cars had <4 miles on them when I picked them up. It is possible I have deceased their value

[W///]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I made it through 1 of his videos and couldn't take anymore.
My M3 coupe is sitting at 160,000 miles, 20,000 of which were on track.
My M3 wagon is coming up on 210,000 miles
My e39 M5 is over 190,000 miles
My e60 M5 is at 110,000 miles
My e39 530i was at 280,000 miles when I sold it.
My e36 M3 street car (also techno) had 220,000 on it when I sold it.

Two of those cars had <4 miles on them when I picked them up. It is possible I have deceased their value

I see you added an E60 M5 to the fleet, very nice!

[Imran@Evolve]

Originally Posted by jp1984

It really really is a shame that most of us normies will never get a chance to drive a legit CSL. Very envious of you, but you deserve it!

Thanks! It really is a special car and more than the sum of its parts.

[andrewM2C]

Garage Queens are great to look at . But I wouldn't want to spend huge money to get one only to fear and feel
guilt driving it and damaging it . I'd rather get one decently mantained with average kms on it and enjoy it guilt free . Brings a smile to know too that it 'll still hold its value even if I rack up more kms thoroughly enjoying it !!

[NickyC]

The way things are going with inflation, a Yugo will be a $100k car soon enough.

[ASAP]

Question - why would anyone spend $100K or even anywhere near $50K on an E46 M3 when there is a spiritual successor around (the M2) for equal amounts and is a far better car?

Better Chassis, much more powerful engines, better tranny and better tech. Sure it doesn't have the NA I6 but its torquier and far more reliable.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Question - why would anyone spend $100K or even anywhere near $50K on an E46 M3 when there is a spiritual successor around (the M2) for equal amounts and is a far better car?

Better Chassis, much more powerful engines, better tranny and better tech. Sure it doesn't have the NA I6 but its torquier and far more reliable.

Steering feel, engine dynamics, ease of servicing, interior design, exterior design, not wanting modern car tech, better visibility, better gauges, weight.

I have a large level of enthusiasm for the e46 M3, and zero desire for an M2. EPS is ruinous to driving for me and I hate the driving dynamics of turbo engines. My M3 converted station wagon is lighter than an M2, and the M2 is closer in weight to my M5s than my M3 coupe.

If you think about the all time great drivers cars (NSX, GT3, integra, S2000, Miata, etc), they're all light weight, NA, high revving with not a ton of low end torque, amazing throttle response, good steering feel, small, manual trans cars. The e46 is better at being light, NA, high revving, low torque, throttle response, steering feel, and has a better manual experience. It ~ties the M2 in size. From a drivers car perspective, being faster doesn't really matter so long as it's fast enough to be fun to drive.

And then, by coincidence, the e46 M3 happens to be one of BMWs best styled cars ever, and has one of their best interior layouts.

None of this is to say you shouldn't enjoy your M2-- if you value tech and torque over engagement (and, at this point, having a warranty over having a 15-20 year old german sports car), it's 100% the right choice. I'm just explaining why the market is valuing e46's as it is.

Oh, and every e46 M3 is either manual, or a quick conversion away from being manual (as the SMG is the same gearbox as the 6mt-- so converting isn't a trans swap, but instead a swapping robots/hydraulics for pedal/lever)-- and manual cars are more valuable across all not new cars.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Question - why would anyone spend $100K or even anywhere near $50K on an E46 M3 when there is a spiritual successor around (the M2) for equal amounts and is a far better car?

Better Chassis, much more powerful engines, better tranny and better tech. Sure it doesn't have the NA I6 but its torquier and far more reliable.

It has nothing to do with performance just like the E39 M5s selling for way over $100k, one at near $200k, have nothing to do with performance in anyway. Similar to how a Porsche RSK can be worth $3M when it's slower and handles worse than a 20 year old $9k Boxster street car...

[DrFerry]

I'm helping a friend sell one... If interested it's way less than $100K..
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1878773

[TboneS54]

Ian, they can't handle you here.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by TboneS54

Ian, they can't handle you here.

lol. I tried to keep it tame

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Question - why would anyone spend $100K or even anywhere near $50K on an E46 M3 when there is a spiritual successor around (the M2) for equal amounts and is a far better car?

Better Chassis, much more powerful engines, better tranny and better tech. Sure it doesn't have the NA I6 but its torquier and far more reliable.

Old dudes with money, no hair, and longing for the days they had hair.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Old dudes with money, no hair, and longing for the days they had hair.

Hey there is nothing like a bulging wallet, the open road ahead, the top down, and the wind on my scalp!

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Question - why would anyone spend $100K or even anywhere near $50K on an E46 M3 when there is a spiritual successor around (the M2) for equal amounts and is a far better car?

Better Chassis, much more powerful engines, better tranny and better tech. Sure it doesn't have the NA I6 but its torquier and far more reliable.

I think if you are asking this question you dont "get" it.

And I am not being disrespectful at all.

Its like watching Citizen Kane and saying the Jar Jar Binks special effects are newer and thusly better.

Some things age like fine wine. (like my grand plans)

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Old dudes with money, no hair, and longing for the days they had hair.

Really? I think old people are the ones selling them to the 40 year olds unless 40 is "old" to you in which case god help most of us posting in the BMW classics forum? I am about to turn to dust I guess.

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Steering feel, engine dynamics, ease of servicing, interior design, exterior design, not wanting modern car tech, better visibility, better gauges, weight.

I have a large level of enthusiasm for the e46 M3, and zero desire for an M2. EPS is ruinous to driving for me and I hate the driving dynamics of turbo engines. My M3 converted station wagon is lighter than an M2, and the M2 is closer in weight to my M5s than my M3 coupe.

If you think about the all time great drivers cars (NSX, GT3, integra, S2000, Miata, etc), they're all light weight, NA, high revving with not a ton of low end torque, amazing throttle response, good steering feel, small, manual trans cars. The e46 is better at being light, NA, high revving, low torque, throttle response, steering feel, and has a better manual experience. It ~ties the M2 in size. From a drivers car perspective, being faster doesn't really matter so long as it's fast enough to be fun to drive.

And then, by coincidence, the e46 M3 happens to be one of BMWs best styled cars ever, and has one of their best interior layouts.

None of this is to say you shouldn't enjoy your M2-- if you value tech and torque over engagement (and, at this point, having a warranty over having a 15-20 year old german sports car), it's 100% the right choice. I'm just explaining why the market is valuing e46's as it is.

Oh, and every e46 M3 is either manual, or a quick conversion away from being manual (as the SMG is the same gearbox as the 6mt-- so converting isn't a trans swap, but instead a swapping robots/hydraulics for pedal/lever)-- and manual cars are more valuable across all not new cars.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Emporor Obioban.

The E46 is fits like a surgical glove and cuts like a scalpel.

I can not stand the new look of all screens and waterfall consoles. I like a few buttons, analogue dials and driving engagement. Classic stays classic, digital eventually ages pretty poorly.