F1 2021: British GP - Silverstone (July 18)

[tdott]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Villeneuve survived and finished the race while Shumi beached himself, totally different ending.

It proves the point, that it doesn't matter what happens after the incident.

The penalty is judged on the incident itself.

Villeneuve/Max could have died or escaped to win the race, that doesn't change what the penalty should be.

[FuzzyPeaches]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The stewards appointed HAM at fault, it's there to read.

Originally Posted by tdott

They specifically said predominantly at fault. Not wholly.

Also... "at fault" does not equal "intentional"

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by tdott

They specifically said predominantly at fault. Not wholly.

If you need some help understanding, that also means that Max was also partly at fault. Just Lewis more so in their decision.

I'm sure MX6 can answer for himself.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by tdott

It's not, you said F1 is nothing without Max.

F1 will go on without him, he could have died, the season would go on. Harsh but you need to accept that fact.

You got that right Sir!
In 1982, F1 lost Gilles Villeneuve and Ricardo Paletti through fatal accidents, Didi Pironi with career ending injuries and Carlos Reutemann because of sudden retirement. But F1 never looked back and produced a great 1982 season final.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches

Also... "at fault" does not equal "intentional"

As already pointed out RB lawyers are looking into what happened and the possible non-correlation of the 'rules' wording.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Jolyon Palmer
I’ve felt that a Max Verstappen-Lewis Hamilton incident was an inevitability this year, ever since their wheel-to-wheel dice at Imola.

Their rivalry had been fierce but just about respectful on track until Silverstone, but finally it boiled over in a fairly predictable manner, fueled by a festival atmosphere from a vocal British crowd and a new weekend format.

Before Silverstone we had seen the two go wheel-to-wheel at Imola, Portimao and Barcelona. Both have been very aggressive, but generally Verstappen had been the more aggressive of the two, particularly in Barcelona, lunging in on Hamilton in a risky first-corner move.

At Imola and Barcelona Verstappen came out on top, and again in Portimao, before Hamilton re-passed him and ushered him wide at Turn 3.

At the British Grand Prix we saw an aggression from Verstappen akin to his at the Barcelona start, but this time with a 33-point deficit in the championship, Hamilton couldn’t back out when Verstappen applied the pressure.

In previous events Hamilton had avoided the collision when Max had asked the question, but this time he gave Verstappen as good as he got, and possibly more, as we ended up with an iconic collision that will certainly be season defining.

At the start of the Grand Prix on Sunday Lewis was out to make amends after losing pole position on the Saturday, buoyed by an exuberant crowd.

The intensity of the rivalry was obvious from the outset. They almost had their collision at Turn 1, then down the Wellington Straight into Brooklands, before finally they touched at Copse, and Max had a hefty impact into the wall.

This 2021 season is looking like the toughest championship battle Hamilton has been involved in since 2007, while Verstappen is up against a team that has dominated the sport like none before. Both were driving at Silverstone as if the opening lap was the last, such was the risk taking and aggression.

It was a heavy impact for Verstappen
With the incident itself I can’t help but feel it’s a racing incident. Hamilton was fully up the inside of Verstappen into the corner, therefore had earned the right to some space on the inside. Verstappen turned in knowing he was there, inevitably taking a risk that he would be hit by a Mercedes that couldn’t vanish.

Hamilton did miss the apex, but not by a huge amount – he never took the apex kerb there all weekend as it unsettled his Mercedes, so he wouldn’t have been aiming for it on this ambitious pass either, even though later on he did on his understandably more cautious pass on Charles Leclerc.

No doubt it was a bold attempt from Hamilton on the inside, one that was incredibly risky, but it was also bold and risky for Verstappen to know the Mercedes was there on his inside and still turn in absolutely flat-out at one of the fastest corners on the calendar.

If you absolutely had to apportion blame, then maybe as Lewis missed the apex slightly you would say it was more him, but in the grand scheme of things this falls into the racing incident banner for me – a collision between two drivers who both refused to yield. What muddied the picture is the outcome.

I can understand the polarising opinions after the incident. The impact Max suffered was massive, with the effect on the championship almost equally large at this stage. The Red Bull management were understandably pushing for the harshest penalty possible for their main adversary in a race where they had basically nothing else going on, but the reality is the incident didn’t warrant it.

I’ve seen people try and compare this incident to controversial ones from Ayrton Senna in Suzuka, or Michael Schumacher in Jerez, but when the dust settles they must see that this is very different. This was undoubtedly a brave attempt from Hamilton but it wasn’t cynical.

The stewards deemed Hamilton more at fault, a consequence of his missed apex, and issued a 10 second penalty. While people can debate whether it was a racing incident or more Hamilton at fault, the reality is it was the harshest penalty Hamilton deserved for any offence he committed.

It’s easy to forget that he was very lucky to even remain in the race himself after contact at such a high-speed corner. Had he ended up in the wall as well, I think a racing incident would have been a more obvious decision, but clearly luck played its part for him to keep going, with the help of the subsequent red flag, and then win.

Hamilton eventually secured the win, after passing Leclerc in the closing stages
The ramifications are huge, but penalties aren’t dealt based on who the driver is that you are racing against. With Verstappen out of the Grand Prix, Hamilton can’t be given a black flag on the basis that he missed his apex by a touch.

Moving forward this sets the tone for an even more entertaining and feisty season or more between the two championship rivals.

So far the teams have played a political war, with finger pointing to the FIA resulting in several regulation changes and clarifications on issues such as pit stops, tyre pressures and ‘flexi’ wings. The drivers had been toying with mind games earlier on, but remained respectful on track. That respect seems to be gone now, and I can only see this getting more needly from here on.

When Nico Rosberg and Hamilton first touched in their rivalry it was the start of a sequence of clashes and high tensions that remained until Rosberg’s retirement. Here, with different teams at play into the bargain, I fully expect even more fireworks moving forward.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...WUvXiKGCg.html

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I'll just put this here...

And why the FIA had to change the rules on weaving due to Verstappens antics.

Or this.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

As already pointed out RB lawyers are looking into what happened and the possible non-correlation of the 'rules' wording.

I know you and Belgium don't realize this, but does RB, Marko and Christian really want to go down this road? They have a very aggressive driver on their hands and may very soon have to eat some words or face the same thing they are attempting right now. Not just with HAM this year, but also in the future with other aggressive drivers such as Charles, Lando and George etc.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by minn19

I know you and Belgium don't realize this, but does RB, Marko and Christian really want to go down this road? They have a very aggressive driver on their hands and may very soon have to eat some words or face the same thing they are attempting right now. Not just with HAM this year, but also in the future with other aggressive drivers such as Charles, Lando and George etc.

I did say possible and having worked for a lawyers firm myself this is one of the avenues that's likely.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I did say possible and having worked for a lawyers firm myself this is one of the avenues that's likely.

For what exactly? You didn’t answer the question, which I knew you wouldn’t hence the wording of my post.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I'm sure MX6 can answer for himself.

He looks ready for the Hungaroring !

[Foghorn]

Let’s get back to the comments about Lewis missing the apex, which is at the third red marker inside the curbs. As contact was made before the apex how can it be said that Lewis missed the apex?

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The stewards appointed HAM at fault, it's there to read.

I am specifically discussing Horner and Marko with their inflammatory language during and after the race which exacerbated the racists comments by VER fans which started immediately after the event and went off the charts after the race.

Any thoughts on that?

[chuckthis]

With all the hubbub regarding the incident, has anyone noticed that causing a collision is only two penalty points on the super license whereas failing to slowdown for double waved yellows is three? That's the thing that should be on trial here.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by minn19

I know you and Belgium don't realize this, but does RB, Marko and Christian really want to go down this road? They have a very aggressive driver on their hands and may very soon have to eat some words or face the same thing they are attempting right now. Not just with HAM this year, but also in the future with other aggressive drivers such as Charles, Lando and George etc.

The record is VERY damning for VER if they go down this road. Especially his post race interviews in which he says, approximately, that if drivers can't handle the danger they shouldn't be in F1.

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I did say possible and having worked for a lawyers firm myself this is one of the avenues that's likely.

Not happening. This is OVER. The WMSC wouldn't see the hearing and they would have the same reception as Ferrari contesting the VET HAM event in Canada.

Originally Posted by minn19

For what exactly? You didn’t answer the question, which I knew you wouldn’t hence the wording of my post.

Bingo.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by chuckthis

With all the hubbub regarding the incident, has anyone noticed that causing a collision is only two penalty points on the super license whereas failing to slowdown for double waved yellows is three? That's the thing that should be on trial here.

No it shouldn't be.

Double yellow flags mean that there are human beings not in highly protective race cars in an area of danger. This is why the penalty is higher.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I am specifically discussing Horner and Marko with their inflammatory language during and after the race which exacerbated the racists comments by VER fans which started immediately after the event and went off the charts after the race.

Any thoughts on that?

How do you know it was specifically RB fans.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by minn19

For what exactly? You didn’t answer the question, which I knew you wouldn’t hence the wording of my post.

Hey pal I'm not a RB lawyer but I hope they throw the book at HAM for what he did.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Hey pal I'm not a RB lawyer but I hope they throw the book at HAM for what he did.

So when VER inevitably gets in the same situation in the future you are good with all of this?

Hey pal, your the one that said you worked in a lawyers firm.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

He did say so, part of the reason I think it's probable he meant the opposite. HAM was 7/10ths faster than LEC in qualifying on the yellows.

I give about as much credence to "the Ferrari is just too fast" as I do to "Bono, these tires aren't going to last."

[yco]

Red Bull is like a spoiled little kid thanks to Christian and Marko.. they re just finding new ways every now and then to boost this image..

Marko says everyone at Merc' is blind.. from such an old and experienced man.. such phrases like this just diminishes their reputation and not sure how much more credit they have..

[racerbruce]

The annals of F1 are full of winners and losers....

From 1950-present, the FIA has administrated F1 and the WDC.

The annals (records) indicate the winningest F1 pilot....

Sir Lewis Hamilton