Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Artemis

According to Hertz: higher damage-repair costs and higher depreciation.

"Hertz is selling 20,000 electric vehicles to buy gasoline cars instead
CNN - Jan 11, 2024
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/11/b...ing/index.html
Hertz, which has made a big push into electric vehicles in recent years, has decided it’s time to cut back. The company will sell off a third of its electric fleet, totaling roughly 20,000 vehicles, and use the money they bring to purchase more gasoline powered vehicles.
Electric vehicles have been hurting Hertz’s financials, executives have said, because, despite costing less to maintain, they have higher damage-repair costs and, also, higher depreciation.
“[C]ollision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said in a recent analyst call.
And EV price declines in the new car market have pushed down the resale value of Hertz’s used EV rental cars.
“The MSRP declines in EVs over the course of 2023, driven primarily by Tesla, have driven the fair market value of our EVs lower as compared to last year, such that a salvage creates a larger loss and, therefore, greater burden,” Scherr said.
Simply put, people are generally willing to pay a certain amount less for a used car than for a new one. As the price of new car goes down, that also pushes down what people are willing to pay to buy a used one.
Hertz expects to take a loss of about $245 million due to depreciation on the EVs, an average of about $12,250, per vehicle the company said in an SEC filing.
While Hertz isn’t directly pointing a finger, it appears that Tesla has been largely to blame.
Tesla makes up about 80% of Hertz’s EV fleet, and, altogether, EVs make up about 11% of Hertz’s total rental fleet. Tesla has been aggressively cutting its vehicle prices leading other automakers to do the same for their electric vehicles. When automakers reduce the prices of new vehicles, that pushes down the value of those models in the used car market, causing rapid depreciation.
For rental car companies like Hertz, which sell lots of vehicles in the used car market, depreciation has a big impact on their business, and is a major factor when deciding which cars to have in their fleets.
Being a relatively new company, Tesla doesn’t have as many replacement parts at hand and trained repair technicians that other car companies have, Hertz executives have said, making it costly and time-consuming to get repairs.
Remember, in the likes of GM and other [automakers], there’s decades of establishment of a broad national parts supply network’” Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said in a recent analyst call. “There’s an aftermarket of parts that is there, that is less mature, obviously, in the context of Tesla.”
Besides costing more to repair when they’re damaged in a crash, Scherr also said, EVs are also getting in more crashes. Again, Teslas, which make up 80% of Hertz’s EV rental fleet, are mostly the problem in both these areas, he has said.
“Our work with Tesla is to look at the performance of the car, so as to lower the risk of incidence of damage,” he said, “and we’re in very direct engagement with them on parts procurement and labor and the like.”
Hertz sells its used vehicles at auctions as well as directly to customers on its Hertz Car Sales website."

When one is on a business trip or vacation, none want to screw with searching for a place to recharge for 40 minutes. 5 minute recharges are the order of the day.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

We wanted to stay in St. Petes this year but couldn't find a place so we're in Tampa.

If y'all get froggy for a drive:
About an hour south on Longboat Key, check out New Pass Grill. Small little grill n bait dive. Ice cold beer, great food...blackened grouper samich. Was like $16 and the most expensive item lol. Right on the water and may looked packed but walk-up-window moves pretty quickly.
Jaunt a bit further down to St. Armands circle on Lido Key. Good people and car watching.

Njoy

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

When one is on a business trip or vacation, none want to screw with searching for a place to recharge for 40 minutes. 5 minute recharges are the order of the day.

We love travelling and exploring new places, but there is stress involved with it. I can imagine adding to it with trying to find a charging station, and then finding one that is working. I can't imagine trying to get the thing to full charge before handing it in and then making my flight. Hard Pass.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gonzo

If y'all get froggy for a drive:
About an hour south on Longboat Key, check out New Pass Grill. Small little grill n bait dive. Ice cold beer, great food...blackened grouper samich. Was like $16 and the most expensive item lol. Right on the water and may looked packed but walk-up-window moves pretty quickly.
Jaunt a bit further down to St. Armands circle on Lido Key. Good people and car watching.

Njoy

It is now on our list of places to go, sounds exactly like our kind of place.

[gonzo]

^
Report back. I try to not mis-steer. Imo you'll get a truer old Florida feel south of Tampa. If it warms up to your liking, just below St. Armands is Siesta Beach. Cool, but busy, little Beach town...party party party beach. AMI too, which is the first "island" below Tampa. No drinky on AMI Beach, so I'm not a frequent there.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gonzo

^
Report back. I try to not miss-steer. Imo you'll get a truer old Florida feel south of Tampa. If it warms up to your liking, just below St. Armands is Siesta Beach. Cool, but busy, little Beach town...party party party beach. AMI too, which is the first "island" below Tampa. No drinky on AMI Beach, so I'm not a frequent there.

I looked up the website for that bar, my wife is looking forward to it. The weather has been overcast and cool (for florida) since we got here but will be heading there as soon as we get a nice day. I will definitely report back.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I looked up the website for that bar, my wife is looking forward to it. The weather has been overcast and cool (for florida) since we got here but will be heading there as soon as we get a nice day. I will definitely report back.

I’m enjoying the 71 degrees and 96% humidity right now. No complaints at all with the fog.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I'm not a business or engineering professional, not even an amateur but what I do have is good old fashioned common sense and I can understand the enormous problems these EV mandates create for manufactures, distributors, governments, electric utilities and consumers.

We're talking politicians here.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I looked up the website for that bar, my wife is looking forward to it. The weather has been overcast and cool (for florida) since we got here but will be heading there as soon as we get a nice day. I will definitely report back.

Fyi:
No bar other than canned beer. Grill n Bait is accurate. Basket of fish and a few cold Modelos...good living.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Fyi:
No bar other than canned beer. Grill n Bait is accurate. Basket of fish and a few cold Modelos...good living.

I'm good with an Ice cold Modelo and some fresh fish.

[M5Rick]

Just had some fish fingers now with peas, baked potato and a pint of orange squash, delish

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I'm not a business or engineering professional, not even an amateur but what I do have is good old fashioned common sense and I can understand the enormous problems these EV mandates create for manufactures, distributors, governments, electric utilities and consumers.

All you need to understand is ESG which controls financing and CAFE which fines the dog crap out of manufacturers is they don't meet the unrealistic Corporate Average Fuel Economy. It simple, it called extortion.

Extortion
noun
1) Illegal use of one's official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage.
2) The act or an instance of extorting something, as by psychological pressure.
3) An excessive or exorbitant charge.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If there was profit in EV without an artifical market, no looming deadline would be necessary. EV has been a mandate by CARB since 1990 and before that, brewing in the CARB and then Federal emissions regulations enacted beginning in 1968.

As a business that has product development cycles measured in decades, flipflopping around with regulations that mandate the elimination of your core product line is not an economically sustainable situation. This thread is full of business and engineering professionals who understand the economic risks mandated EV will place on society.

Doom and gloom. Fear. Absolutism. It's all you guys have to back up on. Even when someone comes in with a middle-ground position, you just back up to the extremist views. It's comical, really.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by dfox

Doom and gloom. Fear. Absolutism. It's all you guys have to back up on. Even when someone comes in with a middle-ground position, you just back up to the extremist views. It's comical, really.

Truth hurts sometimes especially if the outlook is doom and gloom.
How is factual information extremest?
Who is someone and what exactly is their middle-ground position?

[M5Rick]

More specific insight of what Hertz decided on EV's, UK probably to follow.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dfox

Doom and gloom. Fear. Absolutism. It's all you guys have to back up on. Even when someone comes in with a middle-ground position, you just back up to the extremist views. It's comical, really.

My middle ground position is a pure serial hybrid. I've discussed it about 10 times in this thread for the last several years. It's a completely un-extremist position. It melds the best of ICE with the best of EV and gives us vehicles that return very high MPG ratings with available hyper EV performance (if desired), reduce emissions, reduce toxic and conflict mineral mining, and keeps the current automotive supply chains and petrochemical industry and electric generation/distribution industry not needing drastic overhauls.

You have framed me as "anti-EV". Shit, I'm beyond EV. I'm Next-Gen EV.

The only extreme view is ICE should be banned starting 2035. The people with that extreme view write and pass legislation. Such people don't understand science nor business. Worse, they don't understand economics.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Worse, they don't understand economics.

Sadly I lose sleep because I suspect they DO understand economics. Cloward-Piven strategy

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

More specific insight of what Hertz decided on EV's, UK probably to follow.

Here in the UK, only one in eleven new EV sales is to a private individual. Corporates have had big tax breaks on EV purchases. The tax breaks are now ending....

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Artemis

According to Hertz: higher damage-repair costs and higher depreciation.

Just what I want, an EV that was ridden hard and put away wet.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Sadly I lose sleep because I suspect they DO understand economics. Cloward-Piven strategy

That is a concern. I get your point.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Sadly I lose sleep because I suspect they DO understand economics. Cloward-Piven strategy

This
They most defenitely understand economics
It's the environment they do not, and unwilling to remotely understand

In the end, the result is the majority suffers for the benefit of the very few while they sit back in their doomsday bunker.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Just what I want, an EV that was ridden hard and put away wet.

Yeah, one drained to zero SOC, then flatbedded back to Club Hertz.