F1 2024: Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps (July 28)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX and CHECO vie to get into the pop charts.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

MAX and CHECO vie to get into the pop charts.

I just read , Checo has made a big $3.5 Million hole in the Red Bull budget cap .

They should throw him 'IN that hole (!)
I still can't believe they kept him for the rest of this season...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I just read , Checo has made a big $3.5 Million hole in the Red Bull budget cap .

They should throw him 'IN that hole (!)
I still can't believe they kept him for the rest of this season...

CH is the manager and probably OK'd by the Thai's. Mexican GP Checo cred comes into it a lot or there would be an eruption and still getting the Constructors must be a positive gamble for the team.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Who cares? They got caught and RUS got DQ’d. Smoke/fire what? Mercedes broke a rule, got penalized, what’s there to look into? If the penalty was unjust, let your mind run wild.

Pressing this issue like there’s something more in it thinking it’s some long play for Mercedes.

Mercedes tried to “cheat”, got caught and was DQ’d.

Yes, just like Ham got caught trying to cheat last year and also failed.

[HeelToeShift]

Did anyone else see the ban on asymmetric braking? Word is either Mclaren and/or MB were using this circuit to circuit to allow for a torque vectoring effect which would allow them great turning ability. It make a lot of sense now and will have to see what happens at Zandvoort.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

He had the best car in 2021 - in fact, remove that from measure and recalculate those numbers again.

Caught you! Funny how you want to remove 2021 but arent willing to give up the first couple years where Ham had the best car in F1.
Either way Max still had the slower car in 2021 - just that the driver actually matters and there Ham cracked like an egg under pressure. If we remove Ham's first 2-3 years of racing when he had the very best car and recalculate he basically has a handful of wins at that point in something like 130 races (and still had one of the best cars in F1 during all those years but couldnt do much with them). Max still ahead either way you slice it and had on average much slower cars those first few years.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Caught you! Funny how you want to remove 2021 but arent willing to give up the first couple years where Ham had the best car in F1.
Either way Max still had the slower car in 2021 - just that the driver actually matters and there Ham cracked like an egg under pressure. If we remove Ham's first 2-3 years of racing when he had the very best car and recalculate he basically has a handful of wins at that point in something like 130 races (and still had one of the best cars in F1 during all those years but couldnt do much with them). Max still ahead either way you slice it and had on average much slower cars those first few years.

Max absolutely had the fastest car in 2021, and the fastest car now. Ham beat the 2 time WDC in his rookie season. There isn't anything anyone can say that can top that.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Max absolutely had the fastest car in 2021, and the fastest car now. Ham beat the 2 time WDC in his rookie season. There isn't anything anyone can say that can top that.

I completely disagree, at Abu Dhabi '21 HAM lost out in the unfolding dramas by the minute as soon after the Williams crashed and MAX with the new softs and slower car with the re-configured starting positions had the more wieldy car that out braked LEW and indeed caught him napping in that particular corner where even seasoned journalists wouldn't have imagined he'd do it.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Max absolutely had the fastest car in 2021, and the fastest car now. Ham beat the 2 time WDC in his rookie season. There isn't anything anyone can say that can top that.

Ok so let's delfect back to 2021 when your little semantic goal post moving didnt work. The 2021 RB car was absolutely not the fastest car at all. Max was still down what 20-30 hp? If Ham is so good, Max took him down in a slower car in 2021 and beating that car (because it was mostly car) is something to behold since it was the most dominant car F1 has ever seen. I think this is more impressive than barely beating Alo who was washed at that point so a degree and also when Ham got all the upgrades due to his connections with Ron Dennis.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I completely disagree, at Abu Dhabi '21 HAM lost out in the unfolding dramas by the minute as soon after the Williams crashed and MAX with the new softs and slower car with the re-configured starting positions had the more wieldy car that out braked LEW and indeed caught him napping in that particular corner where even seasoned journalists wouldn't have imagined he'd do it.

You could see on the last lap how Ham's car would catch Max on the straights with all too much ease, but Ham didnt have the skill to outbrake or outcorner Max (this is where Newey said their car was better on balance but def not on acceleration). Max would have won is he were driving the MB there just like he would have would win a lot more races if he had the most dominant car F1 has ever seen for 8 straight seasons.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

You could see on the last lap how Ham's car would catch Max on the straights with all too much ease, but Ham didnt have the skill to outbrake or outcorner Max (this is where Newey said their car was better on balance but def not on acceleration). Max would have won is he were driving the MB there just like he would have would win a lot more races if he had the most dominant car F1 has ever seen for 8 straight seasons.

You mean like in Brazil of that same year? Newey said there car was the fastest, and admitted the regulations helped them more.

Mercedes were only in the mix because Hamilton is a better driver than Max. And despite having , the racing pedigree, all the lessons money could buy, the fastest car, being younger - He still needed cheating to beat Hamilton.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You mean like in Brazil of that same year? Newey said there car was the fastest, and admitted the regulations helped them more.

Mercedes were only in the mix because Hamilton is a better driver than Max. And despite having , the racing pedigree, all the lessons money could buy, the fastest car, being younger - He still needed cheating to beat Hamilton.

MAX cheating ?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX cheating ?

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3...-investigation

[3798j]

An intriguing change made on the technical side has been to Article 11.1.2, related to braking systems.

“The brake system must be designed so that within each circuit, the forces applied to the brake pads are the same magnitude and act as opposing pairs on a given brake disc,” says the unchanged text before the new wording is confirmed with the following sentence: “Any system or mechanism which can produce systematically or intentionally, asymmetric braking torques for a given axle is forbidden."
The tightening of the wording doesn’t suggest a team has already engaged such a system, but the governing body has spotted a potential loophole in the wording of the regulation.
The change in wording may have been due to an audit of its own rules, or could have been pointed out by a team that may have spotted a grey area in the regulations and sought clarification.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-si...nges-2024-wmsc

[Roman]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You mean like in Brazil of that same year?

What I remember from Brazil 2021 is BOT flying past everyone like they were standing still in the Sprint Race on Saturday. Then HAM doing the very same thing during the Grand Prix on Sunday.

Also, I'm not sure why Newey would make such a claim when they only topped the speed charts in Intermediate 2 and were at or near the bottom everywhere else as shown here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...speeds_v01.pdf

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3...-investigation

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Roman

What I remember from Brazil 2021 is BOT flying past everyone like they were standing still in the Sprint Race on Saturday. Then HAM doing the very same thing during the Grand Prix on Sunday.

Also, I'm not sure why Newey would make such a claim when they only topped the speed charts in Intermediate 2 and were at or near the bottom everywhere else as shown here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...speeds_v01.pdf

Because maximum speeds don't mean much without context? I guess Newey knows that and admitted that their car was faster overall.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You mean like in Brazil of that same year? Newey said there car was the fastest, and admitted the regulations helped them more.

Mercedes were only in the mix because Hamilton is a better driver than Max. And despite having , the racing pedigree, all the lessons money could buy, the fastest car, being younger - He still needed cheating to beat Hamilton.

LOL. Hamilton has had cheating engrained in every WDC he's 'won'. Whether it was crashgate, secret tire tests, or a completely illegally developed engine, he's never earned a single one through actual racecraft or talent.
You again, are taking Newey's comment and changing it. He said, we have the faster car on balance. Not the faster car. When you change and alter the facts, your agreement is null and void. No wonder you support the Sham.

All of the data shows that MB were the faster car over the course of the entire season. Your opinion means nothing when the data says the opposite.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Roman

What I remember from Brazil 2021 is BOT flying past everyone like they were standing still in the Sprint Race on Saturday. Then HAM doing the very same thing during the Grand Prix on Sunday.

Also, I'm not sure why Newey would make such a claim when they only topped the speed charts in Intermediate 2 and were at or near the bottom everywhere else as shown here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...speeds_v01.pdf

Newey didnt make that claim. He said we had the faster car on balance not overall. Twisting words to suit your stance is disingenuous at least and extremely questionable at best.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

LOL. Hamilton has had cheating engrained in every WDC he's 'won'. Whether it was crashgate, secret tire tests, or a completely illegally developed engine, he's never earned a single one through actual racecraft or talent.
You again, are taking Newey's comment and changing it. He said, we have the faster car on balance. Not the faster car. When you change and alter the facts, your agreement is null and void. No wonder you support the Sham.

All of the data shows that MB were the faster car over the course of the entire season. Your opinion means nothing when the data says the opposite.

Wasn't RB Fined for going over budget by over 1.5 milliion in 2021 along with some other stuff they did?

[Roman]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Twisting words to suit your stance is disingenuous at least and extremely questionable at best.

Kindly point me to the twisted words that suit my stance.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Roman

What I remember from Brazil 2021 is BOT flying past everyone like they were standing still in the Sprint Race on Saturday. Then HAM doing the very same thing during the Grand Prix on Sunday.

Also, I'm not sure why Newey would make such a claim when they only topped the speed charts in Intermediate 2 and were at or near the bottom everywhere else as shown here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...speeds_v01.pdf

Timely power unit swap in Brazil likely allowed Mercedes to turn every thing up to maximum with few races remaining. The Mercedes PU was just not that good towards the end of the turbo/hybrid era - it was known that it quickly degraded that season - HAM used 5 and Bottas used 6. Part of that due to engine freeze and all the other changes for that year.

If we go by data and not by “oh look how fast Mercedes is!”, Mercedes barely had the fastest car throughout the season, it was pretty much even. But people will say whatever they want to defend their position. Mercedes still had a championship caliber car but they lost performance in 2021 relative to most of the grid. The pace between Mercedes and Red Bull was very close.