F1 2024: US GP - Austin (Oct 20)

[fs1977]

I found the stewards pretty consistent with their decisions this weekend. Judging in accordance with the rulebook. A lot of analysts also seem to have that same opinion. Anthony Davidson for example.

I agree that's not always the case for every weekend.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

On conclusion we can see Lando is trying more things after losing out on the hairpin at the start, we saw Charlie wanting to make the same manoeuvre as MAX at the exact same time then quickly placing himself back to power out of the bend better in the middle as MAX and LAN drifted outside in their acute angle trajectory.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by MoeTE87

Pretty awesome race but very surprised Red Bull (aka Max) couldn't get it done and keep pace with Ferrari. Max was strong all weekend then nothing come race time. Granted he finished 3rd but I could have sworn he would have finished #1 after watching him all weekend! Crazy stuff!

Maybe this weekend? No one knows anymore.

I mean the Ferrari's showed the best pace in FP1. Max did make some setup changes after the sprint which I wonder if those cost him a bit but Ferrari was in clean air and certainly the quickest. Max still pulled off what only he could in the 3rd fastest car. I think once they bring their flexi (hopefully so flexible it's clearly beyond what they rules intent but still legal) and more of the upgrades we were supposed to see this weekend he'll be back in first. Overall, this weekend was exactly what they wanted - a step in the right direction in pace and the overall balance looked much better.
Mclaren looked to have taken a bit of a step back, which it seems their illegal rear wing might have been worth a bit more than they wanted to let on.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I mean the Ferrari's showed the best pace in FP1. Max did make some setup changes after the sprint which I wonder if those cost him a bit but Ferrari was in clean air and certainly the quickest. Max still pulled off what only he could in the 3rd fastest car. I think once they bring their flexi (hopefully so flexible it's clearly beyond what they rules intent but still legal) and more of the upgrades we were supposed to see this weekend he'll be back in first. Overall, this weekend was exactly what they wanted - a step in the right direction in pace and the overall balance looked much better.
Mclaren looked to have taken a bit of a step back, which it seems their illegal rear wing might have been worth a bit more than they wanted to let on.

That's why Norris got a 5 sec. penalty (!)

[dfox]

Following the rule book, Lando deserved the penalty.

However, I think it was sloppy racing by Max. Par for the course. Dude in the video above needs to start the video 3 seconds earlier.

Lando took the lead on the straight, and Max had to divebomb in to get along side Lando by the Apex. So much so that he couldn't even stay on track. Max could not have been alongside Lando at the apex without going off track. IE, Max also took advantage of going off track.

Two wrongs cancel out. Give 'em both 5 second penalties and move along with life. They essentially gave Max a 5 second penalty by only giving Lando a 5 second penalty instead of a 10 second one...

[G30M]

Originally Posted by dfox

Two wrongs cancel out. Give 'em both 5 second penalties and move along with life. They essentially gave Max a 5 second penalty by only giving Lando a 5 second penalty instead of a 10 second one...

unfortunately Johnny Herbert was on leave this weekend

i'm not sure if Lando has learnt anything racing all year

1. he keeps giving the 1st corner to Max

2. you can't pass Max on the outside (as Oscar has shown you certainly can pass Lando on the outside but Max won't let you coz his dad will not be happy if he does)

Lando's interview

"If I defended better in Turn One and wasn't driving like a muppet, I should have led after Turn One and then we shouldn’t have this conversation in the first place."

[E92inNC]

Originally Posted by G30M

probably safer to cover Lando being Max's direct competitor instead of covering Sainz?

In theory and practicality, your point makes complete sense. Being the competitor Max is, I was scratching my head he didn’t cover Carlos and make him earn P2. Unless the team was absolutely convinced they couldn’t go the rest of the race on hards if they switched on lap 23 or 24.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by G30M

unfortunately Johnny Herbert was on leave this weekend

i'm not sure if Lando has learnt anything racing all year

1. he keeps giving the 1st corner to Max

2. you can't pass Max on the outside (as Oscar has shown you certainly can pass Lando on the outside but Max won't let you coz his dad will not be happy if he does)

Lando's interview

"If I defended better in Turn One and wasn't driving like a muppet, I should have led after Turn One and then we shouldn’t have this conversation in the first place."

So that is 7 out of 8 races now Nor has blown pole position. I think he had surpassed the stat where Lec poles turned into Max victories. Either way, there are only maybe 1 or 2 other guys in F1 who will race you hard like Max, and Alo is one of them. I absolutely enjoy watching him intimidate and push Nor knowing that he is likely going to make a mistake because he knows Max will make it nearly impossible for him to get by.
What was also quite evident is that without the mini-drs illegal wing of the Mclaren, Nor had a heck of a hard time getting close on those long straights despite not being far behind. Max did pull out some decent gaps when he needed in Sectors 1 and 3 though just before, but given the time delta, it shouldnt have been that hard for Nor given the pace of his car.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by G30M

"If I defended better in Turn One and wasn't driving like a muppet, I should have led after Turn One and then we shouldn’t have this conversation in the first place."

Turn 1, Max pulled the same sloppy driving. Overcook it so you get ahead at apex, run off track, and push everyone else off too. Honestly, I'd like to see FIA come up with some sort of rule that makes that sort of sloppy divebomb illegal. If you try to pass on the inside you can't also drive off track without having to give up the place.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by dfox

Turn 1, Max pulled the same sloppy driving. Overcook it so you get ahead at apex, run off track, and push everyone else off too. Honestly, I'd like to see FIA come up with some sort of rule that makes that sort of sloppy divebomb illegal. If you try to pass on the inside you can't also drive off track without having to give up the place.

Well, he got pushed by Sai and if he had not moved, he'd have been hit. Everyone should know T1 at COTA where you can go 3 or 4 wide with the many ways you can take the corner that it's going to be a free for all on the first lap.

[minn19]

I’ll admit, I don’t know the letter of the law for passing or defending. But, apparently anything goes in the first corner. Even dive bombing so hard Max couldn’t keep it on track either. And then later defending so hard Max leaves the track again. When is leaving the track an advantage and when isn’t it? Max certainly gained an advantage in both of those scenarios. Yet they give George a penalty and someone else that I can’t recall right now.

It’s also weird that everyone knows it’s hard as hell to pass in F1 and the sport is trying to change that. Yet with the way they enforce the rules they make it that much harder.

They are so inconsistent form race to race also, yesterday you could do whatever you wanted in the first corner and while on defense. This weekend it could be the act opposite. But the funny thing that is consistent, usually Max never gets penalized and generally benefits from bad calls.

Happy for Ferrari and LEC and SAI, bummed about OPs day.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Well, he got pushed by Sai and if he had not moved, he'd have been hit. Everyone should know T1 at COTA where you can go 3 or 4 wide with the many ways you can take the corner that it's going to be a free for all on the first lap.

Nah, Sainz was nowhere to be seen when Max divebombed in. Watch Leclercs onboard for turn 1. Max was too caught up fighting with Norris. He came in way too hot for turn 1 while trying to make up for the fact that Lando started ahead of him, and went way off track. Max's sloppy racing was the reason the Leclerc ended up in first, at least what gave him the place that early in the race.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by E92inNC

In theory and practicality, your point makes complete sense. Being the competitor Max is, I was scratching my head he didn’t cover Carlos and make him earn P2. Unless the team was absolutely convinced they couldn’t go the rest of the race on hards if they switched on lap 23 or 24.

while in the car you can barely see the road in front, he won't know much about Sainz.

now IF Max had went on hards early on, and his hards started to wear out, he'll have to pit again and lose many places, or get passed and lose many places.

so while covering Lando is the easier strategy, it also worked out. RB is usually hard on tyres, generally.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

So that is 7 out of 8 races now Nor has blown pole position. I think he had surpassed the stat where Lec poles turned into Max victories. Either way, there are only maybe 1 or 2 other guys in F1 who will race you hard like Max, and Alo is one of them. I absolutely enjoy watching him intimidate and push Nor knowing that he is likely going to make a mistake because he knows Max will make it nearly impossible for him to get by.
What was also quite evident is that without the mini-drs illegal wing of the Mclaren, Nor had a heck of a hard time getting close on those long straights despite not being far behind. Max did pull out some decent gaps when he needed in Sectors 1 and 3 though just before, but given the time delta, it shouldnt have been that hard for Nor given the pace of his car.

it's easy. NOrris needed to get on the inside of Max. no point going to the outside. did he not remember what happened in Austria.

but easier said than done of course.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by dfox

Turn 1, Max pulled the same sloppy driving. Overcook it so you get ahead at apex, run off track, and push everyone else off too. Honestly, I'd like to see FIA come up with some sort of rule that makes that sort of sloppy divebomb illegal. If you try to pass on the inside you can't also drive off track without having to give up the place.

i think if Ferrari protested there would have been something. but they didn't protest and the incident was not "noted".

[G30M]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Well, he got pushed by Sai and if he had not moved, he'd have been hit. .

hard to know. need a video replay of "who is in front at the apex".

the person "in front at the apex" gets the corner.

i could look but i won't, the race is over and Ferrari didn't protest.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by minn19

I’ll admit, I don’t know the letter of the law for passing or defending. But, apparently anything goes in the first corner. Even dive bombing so hard Max couldn’t keep it on track either. .

the first corner was Lando's mistake. he didn't cover the inside. he was too busy blocking the Ferraris.

if you recall "Lando who are we racing?" Lando at T1 - "err, both Ferraris"

in the end, everybody went past because of that.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by dfox

Nah, Sainz was nowhere to be seen when Max divebombed in. Watch Leclercs onboard for turn 1. Max was too caught up fighting with Norris.

all that matters according to the rule book is who is in front at the apex.

of course, that is, if one applies the book. this incident wasn't even noted.

Ferrari was fine with it.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by G30M

the first corner was Lando's mistake. he didn't cover the inside. he was too busy blocking the Ferraris.

if you recall "Lando who are we racing?" Lando at T1 - "err, both Ferraris"

in the end, everybody went past because of that.

Both things are correct, Lando didn’t cover him off, but Max had no chance of making that corner within track limits with that lunge. He did the old Max where he forces you to move or crash. He’s just fine with a DNF there if he takes Lando with him. Lando had no choice but to move. They continually have allowed Max to get away with that tactic.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by minn19

Both things are correct, Lando didn’t cover him off, but Max had no chance of making that corner within track limits with that lunge. He did the old Max where he forces you to move or crash. He’s just fine with a DNF there if he takes Lando with him. Lando had no choice but to move. They continually have allowed Max to get away with that tactic.

Max has been doing it since 2021 and it's become a rule now. whoever is ahead at the apex gets the corner. it doesn't care how you get to the apex. i'm not sure that he can't make the corner. he sure can if he wanted to. but he refused to turn so that he is ahead at the apex, and Lando goes off track and then it becomes illegal to pass.

as I said, the only way to pass Max is on the inside, and then you still have to do the refusing to turn business.

[Rono63]

If F1 policy is no penalties on first turn then it will be an advantage to be P2, brake late and dive bomb inside P1 forcing P1 off the track.

Earlier in the season Lando was accused of dive bombing Max and causing a crash.

Why is ok for Max to be aggressive but no one else?

Three drivers were penalized for forcing someone off the track.

I guess there is “Max Rules” in F1 now.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Rono63

Earlier in the season Lando was accused of dive bombing Max and causing a crash.

Why is ok for Max to be aggressive but no one else?

i am guessing it was Austria.

dive bomb is taking the inside line and braking late.

in Austria Lando went on the outside. (he doesn't learn)

Max drove into Lando by moving out towards Lando I think.

Max said he always moves to the outside before turning at that corner.

the stewards looked at his data presumably and agreed (if i recall). i am guessing they agree because nobody looks to the left before turning the right corner at that very corner (i know coz I play a sim racing game).

can't recall the decision of the stewards.