Horner in trouble at Red Bull

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by lens

Just let Max go to Mercedes, so he stops winning, and he breaks relations with his dad Jos.

Max won't learn until he finds out his dad is making shitty decisions for him, Jos is trying to live his F1 career through his son.

RBR can find another championship driver, before Max was Vettel, so I'm sure some new talent will be able to be a champion too.

Mate . What a BS !
Without Jos , MAX was now just a soccer boy .

I guess...You never saw MAX driving in his kart in the middle of a winter night in freeze temps. in the snow and ice in Belgium ?
Jos traveled years in his van throughout Europe 24/7 to the next kart race with MAX .

Where MAX now is ...is 1000% thanks to Jos ...
And MAX knows that !

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . What a BS !
Without Jos , MAX was now just a soccer boy .

I guess...You never saw MAX driving in his kart in the middle of a winter night in freeze temps. in the snow and ice in Belgium ?
Jos traveled years in his van throughout Europe 24/7 to the next kart race with MAX .

Where MAX now is ...is 1000% thanks to Jos ...
And MAX knows that !

Whenever I see Jos all I think about is when he drove over the back of Montoya in Brazil, while he was getting lapped.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Jos is overreacting, all he's doing is pulling on strings with nothing on the end of them. I agree with Artemis that Max ought to step in and tell his dad enough as frankly he is making a scene out of panic.

Jos and Horner => https://www.reddit.com/r/formuladank...talking_about/

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Whenever I see Jos all I think about is when he drove over the back of Montoya in Brazil, while he was getting lapped.

And MAX got that back from Ocon ?

On the other hand : Jos got bad luck too ...

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

On the other hand : Jos got bad luck too ...

Jos Verstappen makes his own bad luck

Future reference, I place Jos Verstappen in the Alain Prost list of people the sport could do without.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by lens

Just let Max go to Mercedes, so he stops winning, and he breaks relations with his dad Jos.

Max won't learn until he finds out his dad is making shitty decisions for him, Jos is trying to live his F1 career through his son.

RBR can find another championship driver, before Max was Vettel, so I'm sure some new talent will be able to be a champion too.

.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Jos Verstappen makes his own bad luck


Future reference, I place Jos Verstappen in the Alain Prost list of people the sport could do without.

Prost the "Professor" had the best race strategy that the sport ever has seen ..

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by lens

Just let Max go to Mercedes, so he stops winning, and he breaks relations with his dad Jos.

Max won't learn until he finds out his dad is making shitty decisions for him, Jos is trying to live his F1 career through his son.

RBR can find another championship driver, before Max was Vettel, so I'm sure some new talent will be able to be a champion too.

Honer should punk Jos. Tell him...Toto and I have put papers together for a driver swap for remainder of season, Lewis for Max. Just have to sign on the line.

Lewis wins his 8th and just retires. Alonso signs to RB for 2025 wins his 3rd and retires. Max drives a sh*t Merc because of Jos.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Honer should punk Jos. Tell him...Toto and I have put papers together for a driver swap for remainder of season, Lewis for Max. Just have to sign on the line.

Lewis wins his 8th and just retires. Alonso signs to RB for 2025 wins his 3rd and retires. Max drives a sh*t Merc because of Jos.

9th*

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Lewis wins his 8th and just retires. Alonso signs to RB for 2025 wins his 3rd and retires. Max drives a sh*t Merc because of Jos.

Don't worry about Jos Verstappen, he gets arrested ever 5 years or so and I expect he is due soon.

Verstappen arrested, charged with attempted murder
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/175863...tempted-murder
Verstappen Guilty of Assault but Walks Free
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ve...55580/5055580/
Verstappen arrested after girlfriend assault
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...ssault/415763/

[lens]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Mate . What a BS !
Without Jos , MAX was now just a soccer boy .

I guess...You never saw MAX driving in his kart in the middle of a winter night in freeze temps. in the snow and ice in Belgium ?
Jos traveled years in his van throughout Europe 24/7 to the next kart race with MAX .

Where MAX now is ...is 1000% thanks to Jos ...
And MAX knows that !

Yes, but long term, I would sacrifice Max in a heartbeat due to his father, Jos should be nowhere near the paddock with his toxicity.

You build a team up from scratch for 20 years, you manage 2 WDC in the form of Vettel and Verstappen, Vettel left, Max becomes WDC, Max leaves, *insert new talent here* becomes champion.

Max himself says he might retire from F1 in 2028 or earlier to do his GT3 racing, why would you get rid of a TP who has built the team where they are now for someone who's leaving in 4 years or earlier?

There's plenty of talent on the grid.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by lens

Yes, but long term, I would sacrifice Max in a heartbeat due to his father, Jos should be nowhere near the paddock with his toxicity.

You build a team up from scratch for 20 years, you manage 2 WDC in the form of Vettel and Verstappen, Vettel left, Max becomes WDC, Max leaves, *insert new talent here* becomes champion.

Max himself says he might retire from F1 in 2028 or earlier to do his GT3 racing, why would you get rid of a TP who has built the team where they are now for someone who's leaving in 4 years or earlier?

There's plenty of talent on the grid.

If this happens team meetings in RB for the rest of this year will be Netflix series all on its own, and more interesting than the races

[Artemis]

New revelations:

"New developments in the Horner affair: Mintzlaff already wanted to terminate him!
A magazine publishes an explosive story that meticulously documents the affair surrounding Christian Horner - who was almost fired by Red Bull"
by Christian Nimmervoll · March 3, 2024 5:55 p.m

Google translation (German to English):
https://www-motorsport--total-com.tr...en&_x_tr_hl=en

Original (German):
https://www.motorsport-total.com/for...digen-24030308

Red Bull Austria decided to dismiss Horner on Feb 2, 2024 because of misconduct towards the employee. Press release was ready (something along the lines: "Red Bull GmbH confirms that Christian Horner has left Red Bull Racing with immediate effect. Red Bull GmbH will make no further comment on the matter."). Horner disagreed and threatened to sue - he forced an "investigation". Thai shareholder interfered pro Horner. Investigator submitted a report pro Horner and immediately went off radar (couldn't be reached for weeks). Red Bull Austria was dumbfounded by the outcome of the investigator report, as the evidence against Horner was, according to them, "overwhelming".

De Telegraaf had already reported that on Feb 3, 2024, Horner's lawyers had offered the RBR employee £650K to settle the matter - she refused the offer. That means that the very next day after Horner was informed that the decision to fire him had been taken, he tried to get rid of the complaint, source of his dismissal.

If all this is true, then the relationship between Horner and Red Bull Austria must have been broken beyond repair. Could help explain why Jos Verstappen can afford to openly and boldly challenge Horner and insist that he must leave RBR.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

New revelations:

"New developments in the Horner affair: Mintzlaff already wanted to terminate him!
A magazine publishes an explosive story that meticulously documents the affair surrounding Christian Horner - who was almost fired by Red Bull"
by Christian Nimmervoll · March 3, 2024 5:55 p.m

Google translation (German to English):
https://www-motorsport--total-com.tr...en&_x_tr_hl=en

Original (German):
https://www.motorsport-total.com/for...digen-24030308

Red Bull Austria decided to dismiss Horner on Feb 2, 2024 because of misconduct towards the employee. Press release was ready (something along the lines: "Red Bull GmbH confirms that Christian Horner has left Red Bull Racing with immediate effect. Red Bull GmbH will make no further comment on the matter."). Horner disagreed and threatened to sue - he forced an "investigation". Thai shareholder interfered pro Horner. Investigator submitted a rapport pro Horner and immediately went off radar (couldn't be reached for weeks). Red Bull Austria was dumbfounded by the outcome of the investigator report, as the evidence against Horner was, according to them, "overwhelming".

De Telegraaf had already reported that on Feb 3, 2024, Horner's lawyers had offered the RBR employee £650K to settle the matter - she refused the offer. That means that the very next day after Horner was informed that the decision to fire him had been taken, he tried to get rid of the complaint, source of his dismissal.

If all this is true, then the relationship between Horner and Red Bull Austria must have been broken beyond repair. Could help explain why Jos Verstappen can afford to openly and boldly challenge Horner and insist that he must leave RBR.

i think we all knew that from the start, but thanks for the confirmation

why let an Englishman run the most successful team in the world when you can sack him and run it yourself

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by g21

i think we all knew that from the start, but thanks for the confirmation
why let an Englishman run the most successful team in the world when you can sack him and run it yourself

Horner's nationality is irrelevant. His behavior matters, especially if it's deemed questionable.

Have a read here (Dutch press):
"Horner wanted to sideline Verstappen team with secret Red Bull deal"
by I. van den Berg - March 4, 2024

Google translation (Dutch to English):
https://gp33-nl.translate.goog/f1-ni...en&_x_tr_hl=en

Original (Dutch): https://gp33.nl/f1-nieuws/horner-wil...-red-bull-deal

Sounds like Horner tried to execute a "Toto business plan" (but failed): buy Red Bull shares - get way more power and tons of money within the organization.

No problems with that if other company bosses OK this. But rumor has it that Horner organised his 'coup' behind their backs. There's nothing wrong with being smart, but betrayal can come at a price. Will be a tense atmosphere down at Red Bull Racing.

Last year, Max Verstappen vetoed Horner's plan to get rid of Helmut Marko (Max is very loyal to Marko - he never forgot what he has done for his career). Verstappen's RBR contract securing a seat till 2028 features a clause that he becomes a so-called "free agent" if/when Marko ends working for RBR (Marko is an advisor, no official RBR employee): from that moment onwards Max can leave RBR, no strings attached, and join for example Mercedes in 2025.

So even if Horner clings on to his RBR team boss position, Marko can blow Horner's plan to smithereens by pulling the plug. Marko is the kingmaker.

Marko was asked in the meantime by German press whether it's conceivable that he would pull the plug. His answer is a clear message to Horner & C°: "As far as I am concerned, I will not stand in the way of Max."...

And so the nightmare for Horner drags on and the impossible happened of Toto Wolff and Jos Verstappen getting on speaking terms.

"Red Bull exit Max Verstappen beckons: Helmut Marko comes with a clear response"
by R. Willems - March 4, 2024

Google translation (Dutch to English):
https://gp33-nl.translate.goog/f1-ni...en&_x_tr_hl=en

Original (Dutch): https://gp33.nl/f1-nieuws/red-bull-e...elijke-reactie

[lens]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Sounds like Horner tried to execute a "Toto business plan" (but failed): buy Red Bull shares - get way more power and tons of money within the organization.

No problems with that if other company bosses OK this. But rumor has it that Horner organised his 'coup' behind their backs. There's nothing wrong with being smart, but betrayal can come at a price. Will be a tense atmosphere down at Red Bull Racing.

That's why Horner will just wait until Max leaves (which will be 2028 guaranteed or less) and then he can buy the shares again when Helmut is gone (dude is 80, let's face it, he's retired, or one heart attack away)

With where Horner brought the team, and outstanding loyalty to it, they should have given him shares of the team, but of course, corporate greed and etc happened.

IMO, Horner is calling the bluff, and if Max leaves, he can just find some other talent from the academy (maybe Liam Lawson?) to take over, hell, anyone in the grid would kill to be in the RB car right now.

Just like Hamilton going to Ferrari ( which nobody ever saw) RBR may even go for Alonso.

Max is a great driver, but he would be stupid to leave RBR in 2025 where he's guaranteed a WDC in this car, I understand in 2026 because of engine regs, but Mercedes has zero advantage like they did in 2014, I feel Ferrari may be the team to go to for the new engine regs.

[G30M]

New allegations coming soon to an internet near you

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...ions-red-bull/

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Last year, Max Verstappen vetoed Horner's plan to get rid of Helmut Marko (Max is very loyal to Marko - he never forgot what he has done for his career). Verstappen's RBR contract securing a seat till 2028 features a clause that he becomes a so-called "free agent" if/when Marko ends working for RBR (Marko is an advisor, no official RBR employee): from that moment onwards Max can leave RBR, no strings attached, and join for example Mercedes in 2025.

So even if Horner clings on to his RBR team boss position, Marko can blow Horner's plan to smithereens by pulling the plug. Marko is the kingmaker.

I don't see any leverage with threatening to leave for Merc. That is a laughable.

If Lewis had not already signed with Ferrari for 2025, then threatening Max to leave for Ferrari would be considered plausible.

Thai majority owner holds the power, so far he is backing Horner. He showed up in Bahrain to be by Horner's side, basically to rub it in Austrian ownership faces.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by g21

New allegations coming soon to an internet near you

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...ions-red-bull/

Been leaked already and Horner says the article is ‘Littered with inaccuracies’. His lawyers have already sent pair of legal letters to the publication.

Apparently it is some low rent internet only publication with 50 suscribers to their monthly issue. Look at their site it looks like a child made it.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Thai majority owner holds the power, so far he is backing Horner. He showed up in Bahrain to be by Horner's side, basically to rub it in Austrian ownership faces.

[Davil]

If the fallout from this is Max to Mercedes. Newey to Ferrari. I will fall on my Aston Martin sword and let Fernando go to Red Bull.

I’m salivating at the prospect of Max Merc v Lewis Ferrari v Fernando Red Bull aka the Toreador.

We should all put allegiances aside. This would be a mouth watering spectacle for the ages.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

.

My friend, Jos is his blood dad but with what he's been through in his life, some being terrible and with Benetton together with the other teams, it's time for Max to tell dad to get back to his successful race accessory shop to continue his good business there and let Max decide himself what is best for him replacing his dad with another level headed manager.