Employees Are Quitting Instead of Giving Up Working from Home

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by muniz_ri

My employer, a large Fortune 50 multinational corp, has been offering the option to work remotely for decades. I don't understand why some organizations are still struggling with the concept.

I've been chairing a presidential employee committee at my small (not anywhere near Fortune 500) employer for the last 4 years. Every year, we submitted a proposal for an employee WFH option to the president, who forwarded it on to HR. HR's response was a bunch of FUD bullet points about conflicting laws, such as whether or not our state's workmen's comp will pay out if someone falls down the stairs in their own home while working remotely. Nothing that couldn't be investigated and worked through with a few inquiries about how other employers are handling it, but it was easier to just say no every year.

As I wrap up my term-limited time as chair, I can put a feather in my cap about the latest revision of the employee handbook now includes a WFH policy. It took COVID to alleviate the concerns, but I'm taking credit for making it happen.

On a personal note, I am still 100% WFH as a medical accommodation, but most of my co-workers are alternating 50% in the office and 50% WFH. A few months before COVIDgeddon started, my office was relocated to a vacant 3-story building off the beaten path. I share the building with 5 co-workers from a different part of our department, and basically have a whole floor shared with one other person...including a full kitchen break room, rest rooms, conference room, hands-on computer training room, and a big empty break room that we set up with a ping pong table, couches, etc. Given the remote location of the building, it was essentially a WFH setup on the grounds at work. Heck, living in a tiny two bedroom house and WFH, I think that I am going to sneak back into the office for the elbow room!!!!!

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I am still not a fan, I mean it works for me because I save 10K year on child care but TBH, trying to collaborate or hiring and training entry level staff is insanely difficult and expensive and turnover is way up. Front line call centre guys especially are struggling, there's no comradery, no easy way to announce things or give a shutout to a team that did well etc, i mean it can be done but it is soulless. And managing the slackers is a fucking nightmare.

A good manager would put processes in place and know how to manage the slackers performance. Hit them with a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) and then out the door if they don't improve.

My team works remotely and I can see what they are working on, what they've done and how long it took them. (Software Development) As long as everyone is getting their work done, I don't need to be there to look over their shoulders.

Video conference chats, coffee chats on Fridays, 1 on 1 meetings, are all tools that an effective manager should be using.

You really can't think of a better way to announce something than stand up and shout at everyone?

[David1]

I can't stand working from home. I need to be in my office. I don't get anything done when home. I have always "went to work" I had a two week quarantine period and had to work from home and that was shear torture. I will die in an office or in my car..

[omasou]

The majority of folks that I have talked to that want to go back to the office is to escape the wife and/or kids.

I have absolutely no reason to drive into work to sit on MS Team meetings. It's plain silly.

I wonder if we will see a reversal of the stupid open office concept back to cube and office or if they will instead install plexi. Gotta keep an eye on everyone. /s

[Alfisti]

We were forced to move offices for our head offices where the professional staff are. We downsized, have 7 instead of 11 offices and 26 instead of 45 bullpen seats. Most folks will come back 2 to 3 days week, the ones a long way from the office will WFH only.

The big winners are people with school age kids who now save on after school care and younger staff with no home equity who can live 90 mins out of the city, pay maybe $800k not $2m for a house.

During COVID it has been hell for me, wife is a lawyer so needs peace, I am an SVP so no schlub but she makes considerably more than me so i am watching both my 9 year old and the 5 year old whilst working. 5 year old is just brutal, needs constant help.

[muniz_ri]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

I've been chairing a presidential employee committee at my small (not anywhere near Fortune 500) employer for the last 4 years. Every year, we submitted a proposal for an employee WFH option to the president, who forwarded it on to HR. HR's response was a bunch of FUD bullet points about conflicting laws, such as whether or not our state's workmen's comp will pay out if someone falls down the stairs in their own home while working remotely. Nothing that couldn't be investigated and worked through with a few inquiries about how other employers are handling it, but it was easier to just say no every year.

As I wrap up my term-limited time as chair, I can put a feather in my cap about the latest revision of the employee handbook now includes a WFH policy. It took COVID to alleviate the concerns, but I'm taking credit for making it happen.

On a personal note, I am still 100% WFH as a medical accommodation, but most of my co-workers are alternating 50% in the office and 50% WFH. A few months before COVIDgeddon started, my office was relocated to a vacant 3-story building off the beaten path. I share the building with 5 co-workers from a different part of our department, and basically have a whole floor shared with one other person...including a full kitchen break room, rest rooms, conference room, hands-on computer training room, and a big empty break room that we set up with a ping pong table, couches, etc. Given the remote location of the building, it was essentially a WFH setup on the grounds at work. Heck, living in a tiny two bedroom house and WFH, I think that I am going to sneak back into the office for the elbow room!!!!!

Congrats on getting it done! That is a big accomplishment.

It was in 1999 that my supervisor approached and asked if I would be interested in piloting their new remote work program. The company would pay for the office furniture and dsl internet (the hottest thing at the time, lol). It was a big deal back then and everyone wanted to be a part of the pilot .

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by tdott

A good manager would put processes in place and know how to manage the slackers performance. Hit them with a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) and then out the door if they don't improve.

You really can't think of a better way to announce something than stand up and shout at everyone?

I am talking 450 people a night. We fill the female target and need to target males on a specific job it is way easier to have that up on a board than trying to fire a note out to people using various bits of software when they have 5 tabs open, god knows what level of tech competence and glitchy personal PC's.

To work with the slackers, you need to be running reports to watch idle time, get back to each one individually, take them off the phone etc whereas in office you can see bill smith is doing nothing, wander up with a smile and say let's get giggle on bill mate, and everyone is happy.

Remote is a nightmare.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by tdott

My team works remotely and I can see what they are working on, what they've done and how long it took them. (Software Development) As long as everyone is getting their work done, I don't need to be there to look over their shoulders.

Sure, works fine for experienced people, but how do you train new people? I've been a manager since the mid 2000s. I've had to train people remotely and it's always a nightmare. Very few that I trained remotely were generally solid performers and many didn't succeed. There really is something to said when the manager is just a few steps away to help answer questions, mentor, collaborate in person, etc.

Video conference chats, coffee chats on Fridays, 1 on 1 meetings, are all tools that an effective manager should be using.

^This virtual approach makes me want to punch babies. I think the only people really into this virtual world of working, doing virtual "happy hours", etc. are tech people that don't like being around people.

You really can't think of a better way to announce something than stand up and shout at everyone?

For some poor performing employees, they need in-person direction and oversight that can only be provided by having the manager and employee in the same office, at the least, some of the time.

As many have noted, a lot of efficiency has been lost by WFH when it comes to people, clients, and/or contractors being responsive via email or phone. I'm not saying that everyone needs to be immediately responsive (I despise that expectation), but a lot of people aren't even responding within 24 hours now. It's annoying, especially in my line of work where clients are trying to close on deals.

Then there's the common issues many WFH employees experience with slow network connections between home and the office (huge issue for me with data heavy documents), image/audio stalling of conference calls, people talking over one another during calls because they don't hear when another stops talking, difficult to read people during video conference calls (i.e., blank stares, people clearly working on other things while you're talking), etc.

Again, there is an in-person human connection that's being lost with fulltime WFH. Yes, some jobs work well doing fulltime WFH. Others, I don't see it being effective.

In typical fashion, many businesses over-react to situations. COVID-induced WFH is a prime example. Companies see that it has worked and the ONLY real reasons they're interested is that they can get people to work more hours outside the core hours and they can save on rent, furniture, etc. Money.

[Alfisti]

The other aspect missing is the buddy system. In office i'd sit new people near experienced agents with a pleasant disposition, giving the green light to the experienced agents that we won't be watching their performance at all, just help the new guy when he needs it etc. Works wonders, new guy feels so much more relaxed. That's gone.

The second I feel it is safe to re-open I will, will then train on site, for say three weeks, then let the good ones go WFH of they want. Still feel that is about 6 months away as I am super cautious.

[Bunnny]

I'm not surprised this is happening.
My previous job at a telecom company, we were micromanaged to a T. Had to be moving our mouses & call metrics kept up. Ironically, this company created more work for themselves by micromanaging their employees. They had to dedicate an entire department (off-shore because they were cheap asses) to spying on workers.
They offered at-home positions for workers on-shore, but you had to be okay with anal pretty much to get it (They demanded customers happy while imposing unrealistic sales targets).
And then those people were spied on the hardest because one screw up and they'd pull you back into the office. A lady I knew was brought back because they listened in to a private conversation she was having with her room mate, not on the phone to a customer or anything. But they listened in through the mic on her computer & she was nearly fired for a conversation that had nothing to do with the company.

But anyone who leaves and gets a taste of freedom being their own boss, they'll never go back to that. Fuck that corporate bullshit. I'd rather live in a hut with nothing than work there again.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by muniz_ri

Congrats on getting it done! That is a big accomplishment.

Unfortunately, all of my fellow employees want to kill me now, because everyone is now required to work remotely on snow days instead of getting paid days off!!!!!

[E92inNC]

My company is small-medium with 50+ people and there are discussions about different groups being in the office i.e. support on some days, accounting/sales others and I’m hoping this happens. I’d like to get in 2-3 days a week just to talk to people face to face, get immediate answers and just to not be at the house everyday.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Bunnny

I'm not surprised this is happening.
My previous job at a telecom company, we were micromanaged to a T. Had to be moving our mouses & call metrics kept up. Ironically, this company created more work for themselves by micromanaging their employees. They had to dedicate an entire department (off-shore because they were cheap asses) to spying on workers.
They offered at-home positions for workers on-shore, but you had to be okay with anal pretty much to get it (They demanded customers happy while imposing unrealistic sales targets).
And then those people were spied on the hardest because one screw up and they'd pull you back into the office. A lady I knew was brought back because they listened in to a private conversation she was having with her room mate, not on the phone to a customer or anything. But they listened in through the mic on her computer & she was nearly fired for a conversation that had nothing to do with the company.

But anyone who leaves and gets a taste of freedom being their own boss, they'll never go back to that. Fuck that corporate bullshit. I'd rather live in a hut with nothing than work there again.

See I'm not sure how much I would like wfh if I worked for a company. Having my own business means I work whenever I want, plus what I do is for the most part not time sensitive so I can do my work at night or do it all on one day and not the next etc.

I did partial wfh for the 2 previous companies I worked for and luckily they were pretty chill so it was fine. For one of them everyone else in my department were slow as fuck all so I would typically do extra work when I was in office and keep it to hand in on my wfh days.

I can't imagine having to wfh for a company like the one mentioned above. Unless you had some horrible commute I imagine it would be just as shit as working from the office. No thanks.

I also cannot imagine having to go back to work an office job. Honestly if the shit were to hit the fan with my business I would sell everything and go live in my RV at the Home Depot parking lot before going back to a cube.

[stevenc]

I am not good at working from home. Get distracted easily. We have brought all our employees back into the office. No one really complained. One employee announced they are moving to Colorado which in the past we would have let them go, but since they did a good job working from home we have agreed to keep them as a remote employee. It was a good test of remote working.

[Hawkeye]

I am an extrovert so take it as you will but I like seeing people and talking in person. Get better connections with people and just more efficient interactions due to having a good relationship most of the time.

I usually work from home 1-2 days a week so I have the flexibility, but otherwise I have been in the office full time since May 2020. Thankfully we also dropped our mask requirements, that was a pain.

[Alfisti]

Just got off the phone with HR, we have a supervisor texting a female employee using inappropriate terms during work hours, admitting to going on breaks whilst remaining logged in and not working etc etc etc. Now you see why I want to keep an eye on people in office.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Just got off the phone with HR, we have a supervisor texting a female employee using inappropriate terms during work hours, admitting to going on breaks whilst remaining logged in and not working etc etc etc. Now you see why I want to keep an eye on people in office.

I doubt being in the office will prevent them from being a shitty employee.

[TheWatchGuy]

ive never been a fan of working remotely. working in the office gives me a clear work starts at this time and work ends at this time (not that that ever stops me from working outside of business hours). Not to mention its much easier to walk over to someones office to chat than having to call them on the phone and hope they answer. when I have worked from home in the past, I fall into the habit of working all day long. A lot easier to think of something while on the couch at night, or even wake up in the middle of the night and think of something, and get to work when my office is set up in my house. harder to do all that when i have to go into an office.

Its definitely different for everyone though and i can see why businesses want their employees back in the office. for every 1 person you have that is productive remotely, you have a few that arent. Also creates a better "team" culture when everyone is together and can collaborate or bounce ideas off each other.

i also enjoy the interaction with coworkers, the office beers, going out to lunch/happy hour, etc that you dont get while working at home by yourself.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

I doubt being in the office will prevent them from being a shitty employee.

It is much, much easier to keep an eye on people, even your peers keep you in check.

[muniz_ri]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

ive never been a fan of working remotely. working in the office gives me a clear work starts at this time and work ends at this time (not that that ever stops me from working outside of business hours). Not to mention its much easier to walk over to someones office to chat than having to call them on the phone and hope they answer. when I have worked from home in the past, I fall into the habit of working all day long. A lot easier to think of something while on the couch at night, or even wake up in the middle of the night and think of something, and get to work when my office is set up in my house. harder to do all that when i have to go into an office.

Its definitely different for everyone though and i can see why businesses want their employees back in the office. for every 1 person you have that is productive remotely, you have a few that arent. Also creates a better "team" culture when everyone is together and can collaborate or bounce ideas off each other.

i also enjoy the interaction with coworkers, the office beers, going out to lunch/happy hour, etc that you dont get while working at home by yourself.

All of that makes complete sense. But I think that the key point in the discussion is having the "option" to work remotely, if the type of work can be performed remotely, as opposed to requiring everyone back in the office for seemingly arbitrary reasons.

Again, I believe that just having the option will be more and more important to the workforce and organizations will have to get on board if they want to attract and retain top talent.

[Alfisti]

That's the model we will be using, optional.

[ImpressionS]

I feel like hybrid model is best, going forward i think a lot of companies will do couple days a week for the foreseeable future. Given the high cost of rent, desk sharing seems to be a trend even prior to the who covid thing