NEW laptop recommendations (Windows)

shawnhayes · 12-12-2022, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

I think at most CAD4xx and this raises an interesting pt: I thought that electronics were supposed to get *cheaper* as tech progresses? This is insane, but then again there are ppl paying 4-figures for a smartphone. There must be deals to be had for savvy shoppers.

They do. Your current machine is outperformed by a $109 chromebook...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-...204e5effcfdc2e

The one from Lenovo that I linked for you will run rings around the one you have. And it costs less than ONE TIRE for most BMW's.

The machine you bought lasted 7 years because it fit in a very specific niche at the time you bought it. A new one will need to be in the same niche rather than below it. Your price range puts it well below the same niche your machine was at when it was purchased. But, it's your money.

Shawn

shawnhayes · 12-12-2022, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

So 7 years of usage means it’s 5th gen intel. I would upgrade the ssd to 128 or 256gb for less than $100 (probably $50), then that laptop would last you another 5 years.

And your win 8 license can give you free upgrade all the way to windows 11.

I am pretty sure the HD is the performance bottle neck.

If you are a bit handy, you can mention make and model, then i will search youtube for a hdd replacement. Pop the new ssd in, then download win 11 iso, put it in usb and then install windows 11.

Not that difficult but time consuming

Ahem....

There is....NO... WAY.... a fifth gen intel i3 can run Windows 11 (unless Microsoft is flat out lying about hardware requirements)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...d-7674389a7ba3

Win 11 refused to install on my 2016 i7. I can't imagine a 2015 i3 would meet it, let alone the graphics card requirements. Windows 11 hardware specs above suggest the lowest processor in the i3 line that can run it is an 8th gen (circa 2018).

I agree, his best bet is to probably upgrade to an SSD and upgrade to the highest level of Windows he can for his price range, but I'm pretty sure that Windows 11 is out.

Shawn

tranquility · 12-12-2022, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

They do. Your current machine is outperformed by a $109 chromebook...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-...204e5effcfdc2e

The one from Lenovo that I linked for you will run rings around the one you have. And it costs less than ONE TIRE for most BMW's.

The machine you bought lasted 7 years because it fit in a very specific niche at the time you bought it. A new one will need to be in the same niche rather than below it. Your price range puts it well below the same niche your machine was at when it was purchased. But, it's your money.

Shawn

Ok, so there's something confusing then, because how can the same niche cost more now, even though some of the machines you listed 'runs circles around my laptop' (I sure hope so as mine's 7 years old! haha)? In any event, my 'niche' is really super basic, I doubt many have a lower set of reqts than me.

tranquility · 12-13-2022, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Ahem....

There is....NO... WAY.... a fifth gen intel i3 can run Windows 11 (unless Microsoft is flat out lying about hardware requirements)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...d-7674389a7ba3

Win 11 refused to install on my 2016 i7. I can't imagine a 2015 i3 would meet it, let alone the graphics card requirements. Windows 11 hardware specs above suggest the lowest processor in the i3 line that can run it is an 8th gen (circa 2018).

I agree, his best bet is to probably upgrade to an SSD and upgrade to the highest level of Windows he can for his price range, but I'm pretty sure that Windows 11 is out.

Shawn

I'm actually quite happy w Win8.1 if I can keep it while replacing w a new SSD, I dunno what's going on haha. Just like w my smartphone, I don't need the latest OS.

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ok, so there's something confusing then, because how can the same niche cost more now, even though some of the machines you listed 'runs circles around my laptop' (I sure hope so as mine's 7 years old! haha)? In any event, my 'niche' is really super basic, I doubt many have a lower set of reqts than me.

The niche that your machine fit in at the time was not a "bargain basement". It was at least one to two tiers above that (it had a 750mb hard drive, not small for the time). Due to inflation, that tier is more around $750 or so.

The two machines shown have much faster processors and graphics cards, and will perform much better browsing and watching youtube. But memory is now expensive. SSD's have no moving parts, and are blazing fast, but the lower tier machines have smaller hard drives (most people don't actually store much locally, video's, large files, etc.). If all you do is browse and don't need much more storage space (you're speed lacking rather than space lacking, but it looks like you have both problems based on the description.).

It's not confusing at all if you keep up with changes in the electronics realm. Covid kicked all of the factory's asses, and chips/memory became in short supply. Super bad timing.

Shawn

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm actually quite happy w Win8.1 if I can keep it while replacing w a new SSD, I dunno what's going on haha. Just like w my smartphone, I don't need the latest OS.

I don't see why you can't. Buy a good SSD that's compatible, and some decent cloning software and you're in business.

Shawn

tranquility · 12-13-2022, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

The niche that your machine fit in at the time was not a "bargain basement". It was at least one to two tiers above that (it had a 750mb hard drive, not small for the time). Due to inflation, that tier is more around $750 or so.

The two machines shown have much faster processors and graphics cards, and will perform much better browsing and watching youtube. But memory is now expensive. SSD's have no moving parts, and are blazing fast, but the lower tier machines have smaller hard drives (most people don't actually store much locally, video's, large files, etc.). If all you do is browse and don't need much more storage space (you're speed lacking rather than space lacking, but it looks like you have both problems based on the description.).

It's not confusing at all if you keep up with changes in the electronics realm. Covid kicked all of the factory's asses, and chips/memory became in short supply. Super bad timing.

Shawn

Tx for the explanation. That's a BIG IF for me re bold haha.

tranquility · 12-13-2022, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

I don't see why you can't. Buy a good SSD that's compatible, and some decent cloning software and you're in business.

Shawn

What for? Please remember I'm an IT noob.

The other poster said that my Win8.1 is in the BIOS, so does that mean it's embedded in my computer even w/o its HDD and now has a SSD in it, so I can still run Win8.1 if I choose not to upgrade?

dangerus_car · 12-13-2022, 03:12 AM

oh yeah, i forgot about that requirement, but i was able to install win 11 on intel 3rd gen though, by running some bypass...

anyway due to him being newbie, he can just upgrade to windows 10 as windows 10 has no HW requirement, he just need to install windows 10 iso.

windows 10 iso from microsoft
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

i would not suggest a clone software because his HDD has a lot of junks inside. i would always full install from zero to have a fresh start and just move data one by one, but that's just me.

a clone would require him to install a new software and due to him being novice in this stuff, i would not recommend adding more complicated process to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Ahem....

There is....NO... WAY.... a fifth gen intel i3 can run Windows 11 (unless Microsoft is flat out lying about hardware requirements)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...d-7674389a7ba3

Win 11 refused to install on my 2016 i7. I can't imagine a 2015 i3 would meet it, let alone the graphics card requirements. Windows 11 hardware specs above suggest the lowest processor in the i3 line that can run it is an 8th gen (circa 2018).

I agree, his best bet is to probably upgrade to an SSD and upgrade to the highest level of Windows he can for his price range, but I'm pretty sure that Windows 11 is out.

Shawn

///d · 12-13-2022, 12:22 PM

Some advice/info:

Windows 8.1 is losing support from Microsoft in January 2023. I would not recommend retaining Windows 8.1.

It was mentioned to get a Chromebook. While I'm not against a Chromebook, Chrome OS is owned by Google and is a Linux system, so you may find yourself unable to get software or apps that you want because it isn't compatible or maybe isn't partnered or supported by Google. Android tablets will be the same way. Anything that runs a proprietary operating system always has the possibility.

If you do decide to upgrade your current machine, (or even buy a new system) I would recommend not upgrading to Windows 11. Even if the specs support 11 (honestly did not check), Win 11 has been found to not play nice with older hardware. Even a lot of recent Windows 10 built systems have hardware compatibility issues with Windows 11. This is also the case with older software not being supported by Windows 11. For example, you have to run the latest version of Adobe Premeire Elements on Windows 11, because it does not support drivers for older versions.

Upgrading your HDD; your old system may have ran fine, you're still running on old hardware that is nearer to loss of support and updates. It may be fine for a year, maybe more, but sooner than later you'll lose update support for the hardware. Not always a huge deal, but something to take into consideration.

Most new SSD will come with some type of data transfer solution to copy your old drive to the new drive. It's usually really easy because they are designed for your average consumer. With that said, as already mentioned I would avoid transferring your old data to your new drive since you stated it's full of unwanted crap causing issues.

You can use an ISO file downloaded from Microsoft thats relatively easy and straight forward for installing a fresh copy of windows. Just be aware you will want an empty USB drive, as the USB needs to be formatted for the ISO and will wipe anything currently stored on the drive. Microsoft provides a tool that formats and copies the ISO to your USB drive that you need, and provides instructions on how to get the install going on your new drive.

If it were me, I'd just pick up a new laptop, but be a little flexible with your cost point. You can pick up new laptops for pretty cheap, but you sacrifice storage space or memory with those really cheap (sub $500 USD) systems.

tranquility · 12-13-2022, 05:58 PM

Thanks all for your advice. I firmly believe in the KISS principle, so the less steps the better, esp since I"m an IT noob. Given that I could get a SSD for <$100? and a decent laptop is supposedly higher than my $500 budget, I'd rather go w the former. I think that I should do the following then? Please lemme know if I'm missing something:

1. just try to save whatever data I want onto another storage (to hopefully avoid getting an external case)

2. get a new USB drive to install the Win10 stuff

3. buy a SSD and do the physical replacement

4. switch it back on and insert the USB drive to install Win10

PRESTO, done and done?

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

What for? Please remember I'm an IT noob.

The other poster said that my Win8.1 is in the BIOS, so does that mean it's embedded in my computer even w/o its HDD and now has a SSD in it, so I can still run Win8.1 if I choose not to upgrade?

The license to run windows has been included in many BIOS's. I do not know when it started or if your machine does. That's "permission" to run Windows. Used to be, we either had to pay for an installation disc/software, or Windows was "particular" to the hard disc drive you got at purchase, and you HAD to upgrade that one.

As far as "cloning", I'll answer the same to you as to the other poster. Asking you to reinstall all your OTHER software and data to a "fresh" installation of any version of Windows seems to be asking a lot since these other questions seem to be way above what your able or willing to do. Depending on what you have installed, this could become VERY labor intensive. A simple/cheap clone program could copy your old installation to a new SSD.

It's YOUR possible suspicion that it's "viruses". Who knows. But fresh install will probably be as much work to copy everything over to a fresh install from the old computer than to clone and debug/devirus.

Shawn

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

oh yeah, i forgot about that requirement, but i was able to install win 11 on intel 3rd gen though, by running some bypass...

anyway due to him being newbie, he can just upgrade to windows 10 as windows 10 has no HW requirement, he just need to install windows 10 iso.

windows 10 iso from microsoft
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...load/windows10

i would not suggest a clone software because his HDD has a lot of junks inside. i would always full install from zero to have a fresh start and just move data one by one, but that's just me.

a clone would require him to install a new software and due to him being novice in this stuff, i would not recommend adding more complicated process to this.

"bypass" for windows 11. Please elaborate.

And I think I agree for Windows 10. Much better than windows 8.1

As far as cloning, you sure he's going to be able to save/move his data as easily as cloning a disc? I agree with you, fresh install and data copy is best, but if you have seven years of software installs (I'm sure he's "installed" something in seven years, that will now be "gone" with a fresh install) - a data copy and reinstall can be very labor intensive.

I see what we're all saying. But, I'll bet a clone and debug would be less labor intensive for this user.

Shawn

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

Thanks all for your advice. I firmly believe in the KISS principle, so the less steps the better, esp since I"m an IT noob. Given that I could get a SSD for <$100? and a decent laptop is supposedly higher than my $500 budget, I'd rather go w the former. I think that I should do the following then? Please lemme know if I'm missing something:

1. just try to save whatever data I want onto another storage (to hopefully avoid getting an external case)

2. get a new USB drive to install the Win10 stuff

3. buy a SSD and do the physical replacement

4. switch it back on and insert the USB drive to install Win10

PRESTO, done and done?

No. Not done. You will then need to transfer the data back onto the computer. If you have installed any other programs onto your old laptop, if you want those programs on the new computer you will need to reinstall them on your new computer. So there's some more.

Shawn

tranquility · 12-13-2022, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

No. Not done. You will then need to transfer the data back onto the computer. If you have installed any other programs onto your old laptop, if you want those programs on the new computer you will need to reinstall them on your new computer. So there's some more.

Shawn

Ok, tx. I think I need to clarify something: I only have a few important Word files and just a bunch of photos I need to keep from my present HDD...I'll figure out how to back them up somehow, so it's not a big issue. If I am successful installing a SSD, I don't mind installing whatever software I need from the web onto my 'new' Win10 system, so I assume this means I don't need to do any cloning?

dangerus_car · 12-13-2022, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

"bypass" for windows 11. Please elaborate.

And I think I agree for Windows 10. Much better than windows 8.1

As far as cloning, you sure he's going to be able to save/move his data as easily as cloning a disc? I agree with you, fresh install and data copy is best, but if you have seven years of software installs (I'm sure he's "installed" something in seven years, that will now be "gone" with a fresh install) - a data copy and reinstall can be very labor intensive.

I see what we're all saying. But, I'll bet a clone and debug would be less labor intensive for this user.

Shawn

windows 11 requires a HW TPM 2.0. My desktop being a 3rd gen intel doesn't have it, so to install windows 11, you need to do registry hack as follow. there are several ways to do this, just google 'how to bypass tpm windows 11 install'

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/...pm-requirement

it's easy job for me, but not so easy for tranquility, so for easy install, windows 10 would be his OS

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ok, tx. I think I need to clarify something: I only have a few important Word files and just a bunch of photos I need to keep from my present HDD...I'll figure out how to back them up somehow, so it's not a big issue. If I am successful installing a SSD, I don't mind installing whatever software I need from the web onto my 'new' Win10 system, so I assume this means I don't need to do any cloning?

If it's only word documents and photos...

A. I see how your old laptop lasted seven years
B. Yeah, cloning is just an extra step
C. A fresh install on a new SSD will probably make a world of difference to you running on this old laptop.
D. You could just consider a new "pad" device rather than a new laptop for this basic usage. If you prefer a laptop, so be it. But that old hardware will EVENTUALLY fail. Electrolytic capacitors eventually go bad, and some part of the motherboard will eventually fail. They just do. You will need to upgrade the hardware sometime.

Shawn

tranquility · 12-13-2022, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

If it's only word documents and photos...

A. I see how your old laptop lasted seven years
B. Yeah, cloning is just an extra step
C. A fresh install on a new SSD will probably make a world of difference to you running on this old laptop.
D. You could just consider a new "pad" device rather than a new laptop for this basic usage. If you prefer a laptop, so be it. But that old hardware will EVENTUALLY fail. Electrolytic capacitors eventually go bad, and some part of the motherboard will eventually fail. They just do. You will need to upgrade the hardware sometime.

Shawn

"Pad" as in iPad/tablet? I need something w a keyboard, or at least something that lets me hook up a keyboard to it, in addition to something w a hdmi output (or is there something that replaced this?) to let me show movies/shows on my flatscreen. I think I need to update my OP in case this needs to be stated.

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangerus_car

windows 11 requires a HW TPM 2.0. My desktop being a 3rd gen intel doesn't have it, so to install windows 11, you need to do registry hack as follow. there are several ways to do this, just google 'how to bypass tpm windows 11 install'

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/...pm-requirement

it's easy job for me, but not so easy for tranquility, so for easy install, windows 10 would be his OS

I could do this as well. But I *DESPISE* regedit. I once bricked a whole computer because of some errant keys that I put under the wrong entry. ever since then HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE gives me PTSD feelings.

Back to the task at hand, tranquility, I believe the local consensus is to upgrade to an SSD and install Windows 10 from the .iso file AFTER you have backed up your word and photo files to some backup media (I'd recommend a USB stick, personally).

Shawn

shawnhayes · 12-13-2022, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquility

"Pad" as in iPad/tablet? I need something w a keyboard, or at least something that lets me hook up a keyboard to it, in addition to something w a hdmi output (or is there something that replaced this?) to let me show movies/shows on my flatscreen. I think I need to update my OP in case this needs to be stated.

Tablets can easily have both keyboards and HDMI connections, and are pretty virusproof (mostly).

Bluetooth keyboards are cheap and easy.

https://sweetmemorystudio.com/best-bluetooth-keyboards/

HDMI outputs are trivial for most pads.
https://www.amazon.com/Lightning-Cha...79741573&psc=1

For basic users like you, this is the future. Ultraportable, easy to use, and will work for you for eons. Keyboards and outputs easily obtained as above. price is another issue, but just so you know for the distant future after you upgrade to SSD.

Shawn

NealfromNZ · 12-14-2022, 12:27 AM

Just get an HP Elitebook 850 G8.

Nice laptop, fast, reliable . TMP2 chip if you venture into Windows 11 and I7 processor. Graphics card can run 4k, backlit keyboard , Wifi 6. Range of screen sizes, USB C charging / docking .

Very low recall rate for the ones we have at work ( 1000 plus )

You'll never want to use the old laptop again.

Job done ( I work in IT BTW)

tranquility · 12-14-2022, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

Just get an HP Elitebook 850 G8.

Nice laptop, fast, reliable . TMP2 chip if you venture into Windows 11 and I7 processor. Graphics card can run 4k, backlit keyboard , Wifi 6. Range of screen sizes, USB C charging / docking .

Very low recall rate for the ones we have at work ( 1000 plus )

You'll never want to use the old laptop again.

Job done ( I work in IT BTW)

This one?
https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp...ble-1g1x7av-mb

It's like you totally ignored my OP lol.

12-13-2022, 12:22 PM	#32
///d Captain 1900 Rep 619 Posts Drives: F15 35d M Sport Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Minne-snow-ta iTrader: (0)	Some advice/info: Windows 8.1 is losing support from Microsoft in January 2023. I would not recommend retaining Windows 8.1. It was mentioned to get a Chromebook. While I'm not against a Chromebook, Chrome OS is owned by Google and is a Linux system, so you may find yourself unable to get software or apps that you want because it isn't compatible or maybe isn't partnered or supported by Google. Android tablets will be the same way. Anything that runs a proprietary operating system always has the possibility. If you do decide to upgrade your current machine, (or even buy a new system) I would recommend not upgrading to Windows 11. Even if the specs support 11 (honestly did not check), Win 11 has been found to not play nice with older hardware. Even a lot of recent Windows 10 built systems have hardware compatibility issues with Windows 11. This is also the case with older software not being supported by Windows 11. For example, you have to run the latest version of Adobe Premeire Elements on Windows 11, because it does not support drivers for older versions. Upgrading your HDD; your old system may have ran fine, you're still running on old hardware that is nearer to loss of support and updates. It may be fine for a year, maybe more, but sooner than later you'll lose update support for the hardware. Not always a huge deal, but something to take into consideration. Most new SSD will come with some type of data transfer solution to copy your old drive to the new drive. It's usually really easy because they are designed for your average consumer. With that said, as already mentioned I would avoid transferring your old data to your new drive since you stated it's full of unwanted crap causing issues. You can use an ISO file downloaded from Microsoft thats relatively easy and straight forward for installing a fresh copy of windows. Just be aware you will want an empty USB drive, as the USB needs to be formatted for the ISO and will wipe anything currently stored on the drive. Microsoft provides a tool that formats and copies the ISO to your USB drive that you need, and provides instructions on how to get the install going on your new drive. If it were me, I'd just pick up a new laptop, but be a little flexible with your cost point. You can pick up new laptops for pretty cheap, but you sacrifice storage space or memory with those really cheap (sub $500 USD) systems. __________________ F15 35d M Sport (SOLD ) \| F30 328i \| 2020 Tacoma TRD Pro My Diesel Information Thread \| My Wheels, Tires, and Fitment Thread \| My Teardrop Camper Build \| My F15 Suspension Lift Thread
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12-13-2022, 05:58 PM	#33
tranquility sportscars only 3463 Rep 3,268 Posts Drives: 2011 Z4 sDrive 35i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Montréal iTrader: (0)	Thanks all for your advice. I firmly believe in the KISS principle, so the less steps the better, esp since I"m an IT noob. Given that I could get a SSD for <$100? and a decent laptop is supposedly higher than my $500 budget, I'd rather go w the former. I think that I should do the following then? Please lemme know if I'm missing something: 1. just try to save whatever data I want onto another storage (to hopefully avoid getting an external case) 2. get a new USB drive to install the Win10 stuff 3. buy a SSD and do the physical replacement 4. switch it back on and insert the USB drive to install Win10 PRESTO, done and done? __________________ The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation...It's bullsh*t. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal...Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy?
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12-14-2022, 12:27 AM	#43
NealfromNZ Captain 760 Rep 760 Posts Drives: 2016 F80 M3 Join Date: Aug 2022 Location: New Zealand iTrader: (0)	Just get an HP Elitebook 850 G8. Nice laptop, fast, reliable . TMP2 chip if you venture into Windows 11 and I7 processor. Graphics card can run 4k, backlit keyboard , Wifi 6. Range of screen sizes, USB C charging / docking . Very low recall rate for the ones we have at work ( 1000 plus ) You'll never want to use the old laptop again. Job done ( I work in IT BTW)
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