Thinking about picking up an E46 M3 Vert for a weekend car, previous owners thoughts?

[khanyam4]

Ahh the e46 m3. It like seem like some you guys have forgotten about it. The e46 m3 is still an amazing car to drive today and being the orginal owner doesn't hurt either.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I had a 2006 Imola Red M3 w/6 MT. Never had any of the problems you mentioned. It had the following Dinan mods: cold air intake, big bore throttle body, short shift, exhaust, suspension, and 3.91 diff. Loved all eight years that I owned it.

Attachment 1642766

I'm happy you never had an issue. But many E46 M3 owners have had those issues I listed, and this is a discussion forum so I listed my 2 cents on what I'd look for if I was buying a e46 m3. I'm sure if you buy a car out of warranty, that was being manufactured new over a decade ago, you'd look for some common issues? Obviously not everyone is going to have every single issue I listed. But they are issues that I'd inquire about instead of blindly purchasing. But I did say YMMV..

BTW your 2006 Imola 6MT.. might be the perfect example of what I'd want today. Love it..

[Obioban]

The vert doesn't drive nearly as nicely, and isn't as practical as the coupe.

That said, if you're just looking for a weekend top down experience, it can be a good time.

The convertible is no less likely to suffer subframe mount failure than the coupe in terms of construction (was a myth early on, now 100% disproved), but they do experience it less often than coupes, on average, because they're not driven as hard.

The e46 has two main weak spots. Happily both are cheap and easy to address so long as you do it BEFORE failure:

1) subframe mount points tear out. You can address this BEFORE IT HAPPENS by injecting BMW's structural foam into the cavity. The foam costs $86, install should taken ~30 min. If you wait till it cracks to do this, it will be MUCH more expensive-- thousands. To avoid, do a PPI including having the subframe lowered so the mount points can be inspected. You can't see them without lowering the subframe, but you can do it without removing the subframe. This should add ~30 min to the PPI. Ask for pictures, to prove they did it. Foam

2) VANOS pump tabs and cam bolts. Beisan Systems sells a pump disk the addresses the tab failure (permanently) which costs $150 post core return. While you're in there, have the cam bolts installed with loctite. The total job should be 4-5 hours of labor, if you don't have them refresh anything else while they're in there (e.g. vanos seals). The above fixes lock down all s54 catastrophic failure modes. Again, failure to do these cheap fixes can result in the chain blowing a hole in the side of the engine. Do them, and the issues are addressed forever. I would suggest having them replace the vanos seals ($60) and upper chain tensioner guide $14) while they're in there, as parts are cheap and it should only add another or two of labor, but it's not necessary to do so from a reliability perspective.Pump disk.


Beyond that, an SMG car can be a way to find a good car for a lower price. The SMG and 6mt are the same trans, and these days it's relatively easy to convert a SMG car to 6mt. My best friend bought one and we converted it ourselves (took about 8 hours), my brother bought one and paid a shop to do it (they charged him $1100, far less than the price premium for a 6mt car). Both sold their (still functional) SMG pumps for $800+, further offsetting the costs. Plus resale is increased. Opening up the field to SMG cars makes the search a LOT easier.

And then rod bearings, which you should do as oil analysis dictates (elevated lead and copper). Rod bearings wear by time spent above 7500rpm. Mine needed to be replaced at 125,000 miles, but that included ~10,000 track miles (taking every gear to redline) and bouncing it off the limiter daily from new (once the 1200 mile break in was over). I would suspect most verts will never need the rod bearings done, except for unusual owners.

Beyond that, the e46 M3 is like every other BMW made-- cooling system and bushings/ball joints (all of them) should be replaced at 100,000 mile intervals, to keep it driving like new. Fluids (diff/trans/coolant/PS), filters should be replaced at inspection 2 intervals (50-60,000 miles, depending on driving style).

I've been DDing/tracking an e46 M3 for 15 years now, other than one year off in an e39 M5 (decided it was too large for me, now its my wife's DD). Currently I have two e46 M3s-- my coupe (weekend/track) and an M3 wagon DD (100 miles/day).

[Ghetto2315]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The vert doesn't drive nearly as nicely, and isn't as practical as the coupe.

That said, if you're just looking for a weekend top down experience, it can be a good time.

The convertible is no less likely to suffer subframe mount failure than the coupe in terms of construction (was a myth early on, now 100% disproved), but they do experience it less often than coupes, on average, because they're not driven as hard.

The e46 has two main weak spots. Happily both are cheap and easy to address so long as you do it BEFORE failure:

1) subframe mount points tear out. You can address this BEFORE IT HAPPENS by injecting BMW's structural foam into the cavity. The foam costs $86, install should taken ~30 min. If you wait till it cracks to do this, it will be MUCH more expensive-- thousands. To avoid, do a PPI including having the subframe lowered so the mount points can be inspected. You can't see them without lowering the subframe, but you can do it without removing the subframe. This should add ~30 min to the PPI. Ask for pictures, to prove they did it. Foam

2) VANOS pump tabs and cam bolts. Beisan Systems sells a pump disk the addresses the tab failure (permanently) which costs $150 post core return. While you're in there, have the cam bolts installed with loctite. The total job should be 4-5 hours of labor, if you don't have them refresh anything else while they're in there (e.g. vanos seals). The above fixes lock down all s54 catastrophic failure modes. Again, failure to do these cheap fixes can result in the chain blowing a hole in the side of the engine. Do them, and the issues are addressed forever. I would suggest having them replace the vanos seals ($60) and upper chain tensioner guide $14) while they're in there, as parts are cheap and it should only add another or two of labor, but it's not necessary to do so from a reliability perspective.Pump disk.


Beyond that, an SMG car can be a way to find a good car for a lower price. The SMG and 6mt are the same trans, and these days it's relatively easy to convert a SMG car to 6mt. My best friend bought one and we converted it ourselves (took about 8 hours), my brother bought one and paid a shop to do it (they charged him $1100, far less than the price premium for a 6mt car). Both sold their (still functional) SMG pumps for $800+, further offsetting the costs. Plus resale is increased. Opening up the field to SMG cars makes the search a LOT easier.

And then rod bearings, which you should do as oil analysis dictates (elevated lead and copper). Rod bearings wear by time spent above 7500rpm. Mine needed to be replaced at 125,000 miles, but that included ~10,000 track miles (taking every gear to redline) and bouncing it off the limiter daily from new (once the 1200 mile break in was over). I would suspect most verts will never need the rod bearings done, except for unusual owners.

Beyond that, the e46 M3 is like every other BMW made-- cooling system and bushings/ball joints (all of them) should be replaced at 100,000 mile intervals, to keep it driving like new. Fluids (diff/trans/coolant/PS), filters should be replaced at inspection 2 intervals (50-60,000 miles, depending on driving style).

I've been DDing/tracking an e46 M3 for 15 years now, other than one year off in an e39 M5 (decided it was too large for me, now its my wife's DD). Currently I have two e46 M3s-- my coupe (weekend/track) and an M3 wagon DD (100 miles/day).

Pics of the M3 Wagon

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Ghetto2315

Pics of the M3 Wagon

The waon is fully mechanically and electronically M3 converted (engine/trans/diff/subframes/bushings/control arms/cluster/seats/steering wheel/shifter/exhaust/ecu/etc), but has the stock, non M body work.

Build thread:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=555592

Recent pic. Please ignore the tint-- it's getting redone soon (came with the car). Also, it hasn't been washed since early April.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The vert doesn't drive nearly as nicely, and isn't as practical as the coupe.

That said, if you're just looking for a weekend top down experience, it can be a good time. Exactly my intended use

The convertible is no less likely to suffer subframe mount failure than the coupe in terms of construction (was a myth early on, now 100% disproved), but they do experience it less often than coupes, on average, because they're not driven as hard.

The e46 has two main weak spots. Happily both are cheap and easy to address so long as you do it BEFORE failure:

1) subframe mount points tear out. You can address this BEFORE IT HAPPENS by injecting BMW's structural foam into the cavity. The foam costs $86, install should taken ~30 min. If you wait till it cracks to do this, it will be MUCH more expensive-- thousands. To avoid, do a PPI including having the subframe lowered so the mount points can be inspected. You can't see them without lowering the subframe, but you can do it without removing the subframe. This should add ~30 min to the PPI. Ask for pictures, to prove they did it. Foam

2) VANOS pump tabs and cam bolts. Beisan Systems sells a pump disk the addresses the tab failure (permanently) which costs $150 post core return. While you're in there, have the cam bolts installed with loctite. The total job should be 4-5 hours of labor, if you don't have them refresh anything else while they're in there (e.g. vanos seals). The above fixes lock down all s54 catastrophic failure modes. Again, failure to do these cheap fixes can result in the chain blowing a hole in the side of the engine. Do them, and the issues are addressed forever. I would suggest having them replace the vanos seals ($60) and upper chain tensioner guide $14) while they're in there, as parts are cheap and it should only add another or two of labor, but it's not necessary to do so from a reliability perspective.Pump disk.


Beyond that, an SMG car can be a way to find a good car for a lower price. The SMG and 6mt are the same trans, and these days it's relatively easy to convert a SMG car to 6mt. My best friend bought one and we converted it ourselves (took about 8 hours), my brother bought one and paid a shop to do it (they charged him $1100, far less than the price premium for a 6mt car). Both sold their (still functional) SMG pumps for $800+, further offsetting the costs. Plus resale is increased. Opening up the field to SMG cars makes the search a LOT easier.

And then rod bearings, which you should do as oil analysis dictates (elevated lead and copper). Rod bearings wear by time spent above 7500rpm. Mine needed to be replaced at 125,000 miles, but that included ~10,000 track miles (taking every gear to redline) and bouncing it off the limiter daily from new (once the 1200 mile break in was over). I would suspect most verts will never need the rod bearings done, except for unusual owners.

Beyond that, the e46 M3 is like every other BMW made-- cooling system and bushings/ball joints (all of them) should be replaced at 100,000 mile intervals, to keep it driving like new. Fluids (diff/trans/coolant/PS), filters should be replaced at inspection 2 intervals (50-60,000 miles, depending on driving style).

I've been DDing/tracking an e46 M3 for 15 years now, other than one year off in an e39 M5 (decided it was too large for me, now its my wife's DD). Currently I have two e46 M3s-- my coupe (weekend/track) and an M3 wagon DD (100 miles/day).

Awesome! Great info! I am working on scheduling the PPI now and the additional details you mentioned I will include so thank you for that!

The car I am looking at is SMG which isn't a problem with me and I agree, converting it over once the pump fails was something I discussed with my BMW Tech friend.

Hopefully everything checks out and I will be able to post up some pics next week!

BTW, nice wagon! I love wagons!

[3rdcoast228i]

I've been thinking of getting my first manual car and I would like it to be an e46. (Non-M3) I really like the look of these cars.

Hard to find manual coupes here in Texas.

[Quicksilv3r]

Fun car. I had an '02 6MT about ten years ago. I recall the two biggest annoyances being the crunchy synchros and convertible top rattles, but both can be resolved. Great looking cars

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Quicksilv3r

Fun car. I had an '02 6MT about ten years ago. I recall the two biggest annoyances being the crunchy synchros and convertible top rattles, but both can be resolved. Great looking cars

Its these side profile shots that really display the balanced body lines of the E46 convertible. I really love it and why I realize I keep coming back to this every so often. Having the F80 is so practical that it doubles as my family car, in a way it makes me want something unpractical hahaha

[yousefnjr]

Biased Z4M owner here, but if you don't need a backseat, check out the M roadsters. Same engine as E46 m3, a bit lighter, and much easier to work on if you DIY. Very rigid, and only comes in 6MT prices are very good on these atm, around $20k depending.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Biased Z4M owner here, but if you don't need a backseat, check out the M roadsters. Same engine as E46 m3, a bit lighter, and much easier to work on if you DIY. Very rigid, and only comes in 6MT prices are very good on these atm, around $20k depending.

I agree. The Z4M vert is a better car than the e46M vert, assuming you don't want the M3 back seat for a dog or something (unlike the coupe, the vert back seat is pretty useless for people). The M3 vert suffers a lot from the lost structure (rigidity), and adds a ton of weight vs the coupe (Z4M doesn't).

I do think the e46M coupe is a significantly better car than the Z4M coupe, though.

My experience with working on both is that they're pretty identical to work on....? And aftermarket part options are severely limited on the Z4s vs the e46s.

No SMGs to wade through with the Z4M, either!

[NickyC]

Z4M all damned day long. But you can't have mine! They are fantastic cars, I want to keep mine forever.

[Matt@EuroJerks]

I was going to get one of those but found my 1 first. Still kinda want one.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Obioban

...
My experience with working on both is that they're pretty identical to work on....? And aftermarket part options are severely limited on the Z4s vs the e46s.
...

I say this mostly because there's enough room to live under the Z's hood, engine is completely uncovered. No fan clutch on the front makes getting to the belts etc easy too. E46 engine bay is pretty tight in comparison, although to be fair the rear interference isn't hard to remove. Agreed about aftermarket though

Z


M3

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

I say this mostly because there's enough room to live under the Z's hood, engine is completely uncovered. No fan clutch on the front makes getting to the belts etc easy too. E46 engine bay is pretty tight in comparison, although to be fair the rear interference isn't hard to remove. Agreed about aftermarket though

Z


M3

It's 4 torx bolts that hold on the cabin air filter housing that's on top of the engine... takes ~30 second to remove.



Or, my car during my most recent valve adjustment (at ~144,000 miles):

[yousefnjr]

Nice air box Getting into the weeds here, but IIRC to get to the starter on M3 the intake manifold has to come out, but there's room enough on the Z to pull it out from top without removing anything. I suspect thats not the only time the room is helpful

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by Obioban

It's 4 torx bolts that hold on the cabin air filter housing that's on top of the engine... takes ~30 second to remove.



Or, my car during my most recent valve adjustment (at ~144,000 miles):

Wow, that's some clean internals. Did you follow the service interval or change out the oil every 5-6k instead?

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Nice air box Getting into the weeds here, but IIRC to get to the starter on M3 the intake manifold has to come out, but there's room enough on the Z to pull it out from top without removing anything. I suspect thats not the only time the room is helpful

Perhaps! In the 15 years I've been driving e46 M3's, I've never had a starter go on me, so it hasn't been an issue. I have had the intake manifold off a few times (had a VAC airbox before this one... which had traditional VAC quality (shit)). I'm certain I would pull it to do a starter, but that's only ~20 min of labor.

.... if a starter ever actually needs replacing :P

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

Wow, that's some clean internals. Did you follow the service interval or change out the oil every 5-6k instead?

For the first 125,000 miles, it got it half way through the OBC suggested change interval. So, 7750 OBC miles, which equated to every 5000-6000 miles with my driving style.

Since I retired it from daily use to weekend/track use, it gets changed yearly-- every ~3000 miles.

It's never seen short drive cycles. I live in the country, so every drive it gets fully up to temp. And... every drive has always included an Italian tuneup.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Best idea I've heard today.

Here's one i saw in mountain view a week ago, and you can't see it but he had a baby seat in the rear passenger - there's a dude with his head straight

Amazing color combo!

[Kolyan2k]

I had e46 M3s vert., I'd get coupe they look better. Consider 2006+ S2000.....better then M3 in many ways, just a little slower

[MFNATIK]

Getting closer to being a reality. Waiting for PPI on Friday before booking my flights to go bring her home hahah

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by khanyam4

Ahh the e46 m3. It like seem like some you guys have forgotten about it. The e46 m3 is still an amazing car to drive today and being the orginal owner doesn't hurt either.

I feel like in 10-15 years I will be in your shoes saying that on a forum to some kids looking for an F80 hahahah