2017 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - Ignition Ep. 168

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by TheElementalCashew

To your point about dealer markups, I did run into a couple dealerships, in San Antonio and Austin, that were asking $5K-$10K over MSRP for manual transmission ZL1s. I drove to Houston and was able to get $4K below MSRP.

I'm not a big drag strip guy, but I do hope to get to COTA or another track with the local BMW group here. They are a pretty good group of folks and didn't boot me from the group after they found out I "betrayed" BMW. I spend a lot of time overseas for work though, so we'll see if track time becomes a reality.

I still do not understand how they can get away with crap like that. Australia has their car prices fixed and every other Country needs to follow suit.

Glad to hear you found a good dealership to work with. Though I remember you saying they tried to rip you off on your trade in.

Definitely take that beast out to a road course and see what it can do. I hope GM actually did figure out the overheating issue the LT4 had on the C7 Z06.

[TheElementalCashew]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

I still do not understand how they can get away with crap like that. Australia has their car prices fixed and every other Country needs to follow suit.

Glad to hear you found a good dealership to work with. Though I remember you saying they tried to rip you off on your trade in.

Definitely take that beast out to a road course and see what it can do. I hope GM actually did figure out the overheating issue the LT4 had on the C7 Z06.

I thought I recognized your username from the GTO forums.

Yeah, the dealership in Austin removed their markup and tried to make up for it in the trade value. I was more than happy to send that salesman a picture of me with my new car after I got a better deal.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by DAJAN_M3

FBO F80 + E85 any match for a stock 17' ZL1 ?

Comparing modded to stock = LOL

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Nothing against Camaros or Mustangs. They are great sport cars that can be bought on an average salary .

Do you live in the US?! An "average" salary cannot afford a $65-70k car............

[DAJAN_M3]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Comparing modded to stock = LOL

There's clearly no comparison if both are modded. Don't ya think ? Especially in a straight line

[RM7]

Originally Posted by DAJAN_M3

There's clearly no comparison if both are modded. Don't ya think ? Especially in a straight line

There's no replacement for displacement, except for a turbo, except that a bigger engine and said turbo will make even more power. It's likely the M3/4 could have a little more low-end grunt at very slow speeds with a bit more torque earlier vs. a supercharged setup, but most mods for turbo engines usually sacrifice high end torque for low-end, unless you put a bigger turbo on there that can move more air, which requires a lot of other supporting mods and generally decreases your power/torque down low due to spinning a bigger heavier wheel. Like you said though, no comparison really, the M3/4 isn't anywhere near as light as it used to be and that ZL1 will make a lot more torque quickly.

Here's some food for thought, and this is just the regular SS (non 1LE) vs. the M4:
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevr...let-camaro-ss/

So 1LE would be faster. ZL1 would be way faster. ZL1 1LE would be way way faster.

[deplorable01]

Not to hijack your thread but I have also moved on to 17 z06. Car is worth every penny. Only reason why I didn't go with ZL1 is because of the looks and poor visibility. LT4 power and sound is like nothing else.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Was talking about Mustangs and Camaros in general. If I am correct you can buy a new Mustang or Camaro from 25,000 and up. And yes you can buy those on an average salary. Not talking about making a living flipping burgers...
In addition to that, most people buy their cars used, in which case that Mustang or Camaro would be even cheaper.

So your argument is essentially that "average" people can afford just about anything that depreciates? So outside of 911 R's, Chirons and Ford GT's, pretty much all cars are cars of the people. Gotcha.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Was talking about Mustangs and Camaros in general. If I am correct you can buy a new Mustang or Camaro from 25,000 and up.

Not one that is any kind of performance or option equivalent of something more expensive.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

There's no replacement for displacement

Sure there is! Curb weight

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

Was talking about Mustangs and Camaros in general. If I am correct you can buy a new Mustang or Camaro from 25,000 and up. And yes you can buy those on an average salary. Not talking about making a living flipping burgers...
In addition to that, most people buy their cars used, in which case that Mustang or Camaro would be even cheaper.

A new Mustang GT with options easily is over $40k & so is a Camaro.

Now it is used vs new? lol ok

[jpdchicago]

Originally Posted by deplorable01

Not to hijack your thread but I have also moved on to 17 z06. Car is worth every penny. Only reason why I didn't go with ZL1 is because of the looks and poor visibility. LT4 power and sound is like nothing else.

One of the best cars around for the money. Not cheap but worth every penny.
Stunning!

[FrostyDC4]

Originally Posted by TheElementalCashew

I traded my F80 for the new ZL1. They may be similarly priced cars, but the ZL1 belongs in a whole different category.

Your ZL1 has better steering feedback than your F80?

[TheElementalCashew]

Originally Posted by FrostyDC4

Your ZL1 has better steering feedback than your F80?

Yes sir.

It has different settings to go with the different driving modes, similar to the F80.

[Towerworld]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

A new Mustang GT with options easily is over $40k & so is a Camaro.

Now it is used vs new? lol ok

Honda civics, golfs and mazda 3's can all balloon their price to 25-30,000 with options.
you can get a base mustang GT for a few thousand more, they are certainly affordable cars for someone with an average salary.
Not to mention the 4 turbo and v6 stangs and camaro's that are much cheaper but still offer very good performance.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Do you live in the US?! An "average" salary cannot afford a $65-70k car............

Well, to be fair that doesn't necessarily stop them from buying $65K trucks like crack-cocaine.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-...eep-subprime-7

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Well, to be fair that doesn't necessarily stop them from buying $65K trucks like crack-cocaine.

http://www.businessinsider.com/wall-...eep-subprime-7

There will always be stupid people. That still does not negate the fact that an average salary does not = AFFORD a $65k vehicle.
The other side is new car prices, as a whole, are ridiculous and no wonder this kind of bs happens.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by TheElementalCashew

For starters, I have the 6-speed transmission, not the A10, and my F80 was a manual as well. I am not posting this to bash BMW, I'll be the first to admit I'm a long time GM fan and am just posting my personal thoughts and observations. If anyone would like additional thoughts or pictures, I'll provide what I can.

Looks: I loved the way the F80 looked, but I loved the sharp, aggressive look of the ZL1 even more. Very subjective. If you don't like suede, you won't like the interior of the ZL1; there is alcantara everywhere. The red accent stitching and red seat belts are nice touches and go great with my color car, but are not customize-able from the factory (right now) with other colors. I am not a huge fan of the ZL1 wheel design. I may end up going aftermarket, or at least to the 1LE wheels, which are the same size.



Comfort: the F80 was pretty comfortable, I never had any complaints with it other than the seats were a bit hard for long drives. It was nice to have four doors and the extra space in the back if more people wanted to ride along. That being said, the ZL1 Recaros absolutely blow the F80 (non-comp) seats out of the water. The two fronts seats feel more like being in a cockpit than in a car, and the visibility takes some getting used to. The rear seats are useless unless you are below 5'6" tall. I'm 6'1" and the driver seat leaves an inch or two of space for the seat behind. I don't have kids and it is a weekend car, so these things don't bother me. Oh, and the trunk is spacious, but has a weirdly small opening. Again, not a big deal for me. I found the ZL1 cabin to be much quieter as far as road noise goes, even with the bigger tires.

Handling: I never was a big fan of the F80 handling. The different suspension modes didn't feel very different from each other, and the car often felt pretty floaty at higher speeds. I had plans for suspension work before I traded the car in. I have the same complaints about the steering feel as many people who drive these cars. A big reason I got rid of the F80 was the general twitchiness and unpredictability of the car. I never could find a good way to drive the car where it felt stable and like I was confidently in control. A lot of that also has to do with the motor's power delivery, which I'll address later.
The magnetic ride on the ZL1 is pretty great. The compliance/feel is very noticeable in the different driving modes. Around corners, you don't feel the weight of the car at all, and the car feels firmly planted to the ground at all speeds. That being said, when you want to kick the rear end out, it will easily do that and let you have fun in a very controlled manner. I could mash the gas pedal from a stop and leave two straight, black lines on the pavement as long I stay in it. With my M3, it was constantly a fight to keep the car from spinning around.
The brakes on the M3 were ok (non-carbon), nothing to write home about. The huge Brembos on the ZL1 are awesome and really inspire confidence when braking hard.

Power: we are comparing a twin-turbo inline-6 to a supercharged V-8, so I assume most people are aware of the differences. The M3 motor is an impressive piece of work, but the power delivery leaves a lot to be desired. Lots of torque available down low is not always a good thing (IMO), especially when the car is fitted with (comparatively) skinny tires and a twitchy chassis. And the sound...well, I made the M3 a bit better with an exhaust, but I never liked it, just dealt with it.
The LT4 on the ZL1 is also a work of art, and that supercharger whine... The stock exhaust on the ZL1 is simply fantastic. It roars when you press the gas, and gets so quiet when you want it to. It is also valved, like the M3, but I didn't notice nearly as much difference in sound in the various modes as I did with the M3. I didn't realize how much I missed that V8 sound until I heard it again.

Fit/finish: despite being rather spartan (again, IMO), I did especially like the quality of the M3 interior. The leather was pretty great, and having the option for full leather really sweetened the deal. As would be expected, some parts of the ZL1, such as the dash, are just a plain, hard plastic and don't really inspire thoughts of luxury. I am a big fan of suede, so I like the ZL1 interior just fine. I'll mention again, the Recaros are just a pleasure to sit in. My M3 MSRP was $74K, and the ZL1 MSRP was $67K, so I guess the interior quality could be reflected in the price difference.

Features: the thing I'll miss the most from the M3 is the LED headlights. The ZL1 has HIDs, but the LEDs were my favorite part about the F80. That being said, the ZL1 has many more standard options, things that I think should come with a vehicle with the BMWs high price tag. Things like launch control, line lock, CarPlay, wireless phone charging, HUD, side blind zone alerts (thank God for these btw, the blind spots on the ZL1 are huge), cross-traffic alerts, etc. The ZL1 is just a much better equipped package out of the box. I'm a big fan of Chevy's MyLink, and not a big fan of iDrive (to be fair, I did not have the newer version), I find the functionality to be much more simple and highly featured. I realize that is rather subjective as well.

Some might say I am just a shitty driver and don't deserve to drive an M3. That may be, I don't claim to be a professional and just like to have fun on the weekends. I had a hard time having fun with the F80, and that was ultimately the reason it had to go.

I have an SS1LE and had a 2015 + 2016 F80. I tracked them both and always thought they were fantastic. even with a tune I never felt like the car was unpredictable, as you mentioned. when the new Camaro SS came out and was pitted against the m4 I tried one out, then bought one. I'll say that at the time my commute was getting shorter so cost was an excuse to get a new car..... the 1SS was pretty bad inside and mine had several QC issues inside and out. I got a 718S boxsterS next because I missed the luxury. I tracked that and it was smooth as butter, but it did lack drama. I ended up trading that in when the 1LE came out and have been loving it. I lost my @$$ on the Porsche so I'm paying for your car essentially but oh well lol. I still think it was worth it.

I agree with all of your statements about our cars. .. the mag ride and seats are superior to the M3. the upscale feel and visibility ARE missed, but this is a weekend car for me too so I don't care. and the 1LE is a huge improvement over the 1SS, which sucks.

the amount of features and the performance I get for $44k ($2k under MSRP) is incredible. again: excellent seats, mag ride (best I've felt), HUD, built in video/tele, huge wheels & tires, 2pc brembos (6pot/4pot F/R), numerous other suspension upgrades....nasty sounding exhaust... the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE must just be crazy with the extra power & goodies...
can't wait to get it on track and see how I do! enjoy the ZL1!

****** on a final note, I did have to add an Audi S3 as a daily driver for when I take longer drives and want a more relaxed drive. . the 1LE is not harsh, per se, but it isn't really relaxed either. partially because when I drive it, I do want to rip on it. with kids, the back seat is awful but usable and I usually just will take one kid sitting being the empty passenger seat. The M3 was a better car overall as if served multiple purposes very well, but the 1LE is a far better sports car & more entertaining to drive. the M3 feels really soft in comparison, but that's also what makes it so liveable. ..

[TSM330i]

Kind of funny since Dodge is coming out with the Demon.

[Mingwan]

I feel bad for anyone that tries buying Hennessy's car. They'll probably have to wait 2 years for it, or they'll receive the car with a fake engine.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

I feel bad for anyone that tries buying Hennessy's car. They'll probably have to wait 2 years for it, or they'll receive the car with a fake engine.

Hahahahaha!!!!!!

[Vigilante375]

Exactly. I don't see how Hennessey is still in business. I think people just get sucked in by all of their marketing scheme's.