MSN Autos: Why Are Manual Transmissions Disappearing?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

No, per definition when something else other than the driver decides what gear is selected, then its an automatic.
A DCT with flappy paddles is a semi-automatic with an automatic mode, and the flappy paddles on a zf 8 speed (slushbox) makes it a manumatic with automatic mode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-a...c_transmission
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumatic

But both are not manual gearboxes though. (and a DCT isnt an automated manual as it has twin clutches, but a SMG is)

For the layman this may seem the same but this is a car forum. No laymen here

The sticky wicket for me is the automated option. If a DCT always required the driver to shift, I could almost accept that it's just a fancy manual with two gears always engaged. But since they all have a fully automatic option, then it's not a "manual" by definition. If I stop shifting, the car stops moving. Not in a DCT.

And SMG isn't anything but the proverbial devil. Thankfully just as dead as pop up headlights.

[blake9220]

As a member of the younger generation I love my 3 pedals and wouldn't give them up for anything! I even swapped my '65 Mustang from an Auto to a 5 Speed once I learned how to drive a stick Looks like the rest of my generation is missing out

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

for those who get it, get it. for those who dont, wont.

[AW335TT]

I've been driving manual for the last 11 years, started with a Evo 9.. thats actually the car I learned on. Took about 45 min the morning after I got the car to be able to drive without worrying about stalling while making a left. Definitely not a easy car to learn on. After the Evo, I got my 335i..

At this point, driving manual is like walking and chewing gum.. I just dont think about it.. no matter how bad the traffic is. I love driving manual but to be honest, DCT is more fun in all but 1 circumstance.. going WOT!

For me personally, spirited driving, where im not going WOT (which means im not shifting hard either) is so much more enjoyable in a DCT. It goes through the gears perfectly, short shifts are still fast.. there isnt a constant cut in power. This is especially annoying in the canyons where you shift up/down only once in between turns. DCT just lets you enjoy more of the total experience.

Now, everything I've said means absolutely nothing once you go WOT in a manual... DCT can not come close to that.

My favorite transmission was in this Formula Renault I drove like 2 years ago. It was a sequential manual gearbox (not a BMW smg, lol) with a clutch. I would love to have one in my 335 haha.

Heres the car.. and me.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

And to counter all that, I'm looking forward to fully automated cars. Most drivers are so poorly engaged now I'd welcome the chance to remove all of us from the dangerous game of commuting. Leave actual driving to back roads and race tracks.

I wasn't, but good point. Even if in time 80% of the drivers who really didn't want to be driving, and would rather be on Facebook, are using fully automated cars - then the roads won't be as "scary" for the rest of us. I think we can probably rely on other automated cars not to do the stupid things humans currently do.

I however have no intention of having a fully automated car. I'm a computer programmer. I'm fallible. I would never trust my life to software I wrote, let alone someone at Google who is probably 20, and has never driven a car in their life (exaggeration!). Besides, I hate being driven at the best of times.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

DCT isn't a slushbox.

It changes gears automatically. Just a different type of automatic transmission. The leading edge slush-box autos are changing gears as fast as DCTs and pushing the boundaries. I'm not saying they are better, but the "DCT is hands down better" isn't clear cut anymore like it used to be when that technically first showed up.

[RM7]

I'll say this too.

Some cars are better suited to manuals, because there is no suitable auto, the cars are fairly light and the auto adds a ton of weight, or it doesn't have as many speeds, or the ratios cause it to bog down in certain gears, or turn at 4000rpm at 65mph, and so on.

Some cars are better suited to automatics, with so much torque and acceleration the way to make the most of it is by switching gears faster than humanly possible, they are also so engaging on so many levels that requiring a manual transmission just slows you down as the driver and takes your concentration away from those other engagements, like turning, accelerating, slipping, flappy-paddle shifting, or they have complex power distribution systems of which the automatic is an integral part, and so on.

Subaru's 4EAT was allowed to survive way WAY too long, making it into the WRX and Forester XT, two cars that should absolutely NEVER EVER have been ordered with that transmission. I've heard from more than one person complaining about those cars with that transmission, yet it's kind of a "well, what the hell did you expect?" situation, horrible technology and transmission for that type of car. The 5spd wasn't great, but with short ratios and the ability to choose where to run the turbo (low RPM for mileage or high RPM to stay on boost) were infinitely better than the 4EAT.

So, there are plenty of cars that seem better suited for one vs. the other. Plenty of high performance road cars that are capable of speeds and G forces where being able to "bump" into gears lightning fast makes a lot more sense than money-motion associated with shifting gears. No matter how well you think you can shift, if you really want to attack that curve at the limit and exit like you mean it, an auto might be better on the car in question.

[dzvero]

Originally Posted by NickyC

When did you give up on life?

This ^ . Some people live in a box ! Still we cant stop the process. With electric cars there wont be any driver engagement in shifting.

[jonshmoe]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

I am always tickled whenever our friends discovered my wife can drive manual. So many young people have no idea what to do with 3 pedals and a stick that doesn't read PRND.

So true.. I can only count on 1 hand how many friends can drive my car. Maybe 2 hands if I can stretch the word "friend"

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

It changes gears automatically. Just a different type of automatic transmission. The leading edge slush-box autos are changing gears as fast as DCTs and pushing the boundaries. I'm not saying they are better, but the "DCT is hands down better" isn't clear cut anymore like it used to be when that technically first showed up.

Sigh. A slushbox uses fluidic drive. There is no clutch. DCT has a clutch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_coupling

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Sigh. A slushbox uses fluidic drive. There is no clutch. DCT has a clutch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_coupling

I think he knows that.

The point I am seeing made is that whether the transmission uses clutches or a torque converter is irrelevant to how the driver operates it. Regardless of what type of transmission your car has, if it doesn't have a clutch pedal, the following are true:

- In auto mode, you just hit the gas and go and the electronics choose the gear for you.

- In manual mode, you have to shift. (Though in some implementations the electronics will upshift for you when you hit redline. And in all implementations the electronics will downshift for you if the engine reaches stall speed)

[Beartato]

You'll have to pull my clutch pedal out from under my cold, dead foot.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by dzvero

Just saw this on msn. Sad to see manuals disappearing

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/owner...YFp?li=BBnb7Kz

Because too much effort for ANY real-world everyday experience!

If you are taking it specifically to a race track... Possibly. Otherwise, absolutely zero need.
Oh... I took my drivers license course in a manual and owned 6 or 7 cars with one. So I am far from anti. Just simply no need these days. Just not practical.
Or maybe if you live and drive in some isolated area with zero traffic.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Sigh. A slushbox uses fluidic drive. There is no clutch. DCT has a clutch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_coupling

Does

It

Change

Gears

Automatically?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Does

It

Change

Gears

Automatically?

It really is that simple. If my grandma can drive it, it's an automatic. Or an automated manual or a fancy automatic-ish some or all of the time thing.

My wife's had DCT's and ZF8's and I would bet money she doesn't know which car had which and she certainly doesn't think any of them were manuals or just had a third pedal hidden somewhere she never got around to looking.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Does

It

Change

Gears

Automatically?

Not

When

I

Don't

Want

It

To.

And it has a clutch.

(You pedalphiles are aggravating.)

[rosierobins2003]

drove my 5 speed 04 Z4 for 13 years.......I loved it and just let it go last week. I love being able to shift to control the power.

rosie

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Not

When

I

Don't

Want

It

To.

And it has a clutch.

(You pedalphiles are aggravating.)

It has clutches. Not the same. And my mom's 1991 SL let you "shift" too. Still an automatic. Nothing wrong with automatics, they're the future.

Oops, single speeds are the future, you as much as me have the next SMG, sadly.

[R3dliner]

#savethemanuals

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Sigh. A slushbox uses fluidic drive. There is no clutch.

Actually a slushbox has a clutch for every gear, or sometimes even 2 clutches
The clutches take over the role of the synchro's/slidingsleeves in a manual, but are used in series (so 1 gear can pass many clutches).
But it also has a torque converter

[3798j]

Always a third pedal fan (and always will be), but then, I'm from the era when automatic transmissions performed like this....although that "boredom" area of the schematic still exists.

[ShocknAwe]

I'd be more interested in DCT or similar "pseudomanual" transmissions if they had no automatic mode, and a proper gear lever. I've got knee issues from years of abuse and I know a day is coming when I won't be able to operate a clutch long term anymore.

BUT TODAY IS NOT THAT DAY!