PlayStation 5

Ickdeep · 11-11-2019, 11:40 AM

For those that have been playing the new Call of Duty Modern Warfare, there is a little Easter egg on the London map regarding a "Activision’s" console that happens to line up with the PS5 timeline.

https://www.dexerto.com/call-of-duty...e-date-1206042

BMW_Mischa · 11-11-2019, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Railgun

With the architecture being what it is today, I would love to see a modular approach to it. I think they're all missing a trick by not doing it that way.

They have had this for years, it's called a PC...

Joe240 · 11-11-2019, 12:44 PM

We get it, “PC MASTERRACE!” 🙄 people miss the idea that we play console because of the slim form factor, convenience with minimal power usage, and the console exclusive titles. Sure, I can build a budget PC and use a console controller to play games on it. But I would also need to spend the time to configure the settings of each and every game I play so that it doesn’t run like shit on the budget graphics cards. Not to mention the convenience of just grabbing my controller, hitting the Ps button and the console, TV Soundbar all turn on at once. Using a PC I’d still have to turn on everything myself (call me lazy). Consoles have always brought one thing PC can’t and that’s Convenience. Try packing your PC into a pelican carry case to use as your personal item on an airplane.

All of this doesn’t mean that consoles couldn’t have a modular design to them for APU, CPU/GPU, Storage (expansion even, add a second PCIe slot for NVMe SSDs!), and RAM.

I believe it hasn’t been implemented with consoles because it’d kill sales during the midlife refresh that they typically do. However, they could offset this by offering extended warranties (I don’t buy them knowing the console will be refreshed in 3-4 years anyways), and even HW upgrade services or proprietary HW for those upgrades. We all know services make the most money, not the hardware. There’s a reason major companies are going to subscription based services, branching into new markets (PSVue) and offer other streaming services.

BMW_Mischa · 11-11-2019, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe240

We get it, “PC MASTERRACE!” 🙄 people miss the idea that we play console because of the slim form factor, convenience with minimal power usage, and the console exclusive titles. Sure, I can build a budget PC and use a console controller to play games on it. But I would also need to spend the time to configure the settings of each and every game I play so that it doesn’t run like shit on the budget graphics cards. Not to mention the convenience of just grabbing my controller, hitting the Ps button and the console, TV Soundbar all turn on at once. Using a PC I’d still have to turn on everything myself (call me lazy). Consoles have always brought one thing PC can’t and that’s Convenience. Try packing your PC into a pelican carry case to use as your personal item on an airplane.

All of this doesn’t mean that consoles couldn’t have a modular design to them for APU, CPU/GPU, Storage (expansion even, add a second PCIe slot for NVMe SSDs!), and RAM.

I believe it hasn’t been implemented with consoles because it’d kill sales during the midlife refresh that they typically do. However, they could offset this by offering extended warranties (I don’t buy them knowing the console will be refreshed in 3-4 years anyways), and even HW upgrade services or proprietary HW for those upgrades. We all know services make the most money, not the hardware. There’s a reason major companies are going to subscription based services, branching into new markets (PSVue) and offer other streaming services.

Hahaha, I've been a console only gamer for about 15 years now. So chill out with the assumptions

Consoles, like you said yourself, are supposed to be easy and small. Creating 500 different configuration options kills the "easy". Adding different hardware options will make it just as crappy as PC's to configure. You start a game on high, it runs crappy, you change to medium still not great, you go to low and it runs great... But damn high looked good

. Consoles run games as they are supposed to straight out of the box/download. (most of them at least

)
The other problem of the option of adding/changing hardware is that you need to supply the room in the console to do so in a idiot proof way. Which means bigger consoles. Wait, wasn't that what we didn't want?

Since there's only one main platform for a console game development is relatively easy. All games are made to run on the specs of that console. So adding extra RAM might have benefits but most cases probably not. Better CPU/GPU? Same story. More storage? Just change the internal drive (PlayStation) or attach a USB drive. Yes they do have a LCI version of consoles now a days. But that's just a minor change compared to a fully interchangeable platform. And last but not least, how much do you think it would cost extra to develop the upgrade hardware? It will have to be as small as possible, so no standard PC stuff but console specific. How many people will want to upgrade? 1 in 10, 1 in 10,000? Would you be willing to pay 300,- or so for a video upgrade on a console that will play all they games no matter what? Or would you expect the games to become hardware specific, which would force your friends or to upgrade or you to play without them?

This all is why I play console. You want to play, you turn it on and play. No hassle, no fuzz, just play. (If you've got all the updates that is

) But that's just me

Joe240 · 11-11-2019, 06:26 PM

They already design games specific for upgraded consoles though. Look at the games that will play on the OG PS4, but if you’re playing on a PS4Pro the graphics are switched to high gear and look even better? Developers already design the games to work on better hardware for the consoles. Even if the game wasn’t made during the age of the newer console (GTA5 for example), a simple patch fixes that and the new graphics are there for the new console. This is what plenty of games have done since live updates and online platforms have become a hit.

Regarding price of upgrades, it has to be reasonable (obviously) but the OG consoles started at $400? $500? Back in 2011, while the PS4P came out at $400-500 as well. That’s $1k in 9 years (console life cycle) with a basic 1 year MFW warranty each. Add $100-300 for increased warranty coverage each.

If they released a modular console at $350 (think ryzen 3 with 1650 graphics) base with a maxed version at $600 (think ryzen 7 with 2070 graphics) then in 4 years offer CPU/GPU upgrades at $100-300. The hardware upgrades would be able to utilize the same socket types (AM4 I believe now) so a whole new board and enclosure wouldn’t need to be R&D and manufactured which would save the company money, while they’d still make roughly the same profit off customers just from the hardware, but would generate more profit from the services offered. Sony and Microsoft already spend the R&D on the upgrades CPU/GPU for the console refreshes so they aren’t really spending any extra to generate new hardware for the modular design since it was going to be done anyways.

nyalpine90 · 11-13-2019, 11:10 AM

new call of duty is out?

TurboSid · 11-13-2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

new call of duty is out?

serious?

rutilebros · 11-13-2019, 10:25 PM

I need to know what games are they going to release along with it.

Joe240 · 11-13-2019, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rutilebros

I need to know what games are they going to release along with it.

Hopefully gta6

nyalpine90 · 11-14-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboSid

serious?

i know,

but i bought it yesterday as soon as i left work

night vision maps are fun but i cant aim correctly when i fire , the weapon gets tilted

BMWL0v3r · 12-02-2019, 07:44 AM

I really don't play playstation anymore after I bought PC..BUT I think I still need to buy it because FIFA and NHL

1 year anymore

mirob · 03-17-2020, 02:51 PM

Look alive boys and girls, official reveal tomorrow, 03/18/2020!

https://bgr.com/2020/03/17/ps5-relea...-launch-event/

mirob · 03-19-2020, 09:21 AM

Well...I wanted to chew on this for at least a day before making any conclusions. Here's my thoughts...

1) I'm pretty disappointed that the PS5 is less powerful than the XBox Series X. I understand that it may not matter in the real world, but still. Pretty obvious that the PS team was caught off guard with the XBSX specs. I don't think they expected it to be that powerful. Kudos to MS.

2) Was hoping to see final console and controller design but wasn't expecting it since this was just a spec reveal.

3) My understanding was that the PS5 would be backwards compatible all the way through PS1, now it seems like it's not even for all PS4 games (top 100). I understand that it's a work in progress (software updates) but XBSX is backwards compatible all the way back out of the box. Kudos MS.

4) Strange choice for storage amount (825GB). May be enough for some but not for most. I maxed out my 500GB storage (mostly because COD MW updates are massive and have to take up double the space for copying) and had to get an external drive and I only play three games (FIFA, COD, GT Sport) and games are only going to get bigger. Seems like the tech is proprietary which means getting extended storage might be expensive and not available right away.

5) Seems like the latency/input lag has been greatly reduced between controller and console. Also from console to TV but only if you own one of the latest TVs that have HDMI 2.1 support. Bummer.

6) Leaks suggested that two PS5 would launch simultaneously instead of doing PRO and Slim versions as a life cycle refresh. Doesn't seem like that's the case right now. This is just my FOMO acting up though.

7) This is only based on speculation and leaks but the developer unit design looked terrible, especially next to the clean and classy XBSX design (yes, I know it looks like a literal box). I can only hope that's not the final design of the PS5. Time will tell.

Only after I typed this out did I realize that most of my points are negative. I am slightly disappointed.
Still picking one up when it launches if I can find one but I'm not going out of my way to do so. I'm still on the OG PS4 so I'm sure this will be leaps and bounds faster and better than it.

What are your thoughts?

Joe240 · 03-19-2020, 10:13 AM

825GB of storage I think is the differential of a 1TB drive minus the overhead of bits (a 1TB drive doesn’t partition out to 1TB when formatted) and then the PS5 OS. Although it appears the OS is pushing 100GB itself which is ridiculous because the PS4 OS is only (guessing here from my HDD upgrade) 8GB for the foundation plus the patches and stuff bringing it to ~40GB. It’s possible that it’s a 960GB storage instead of a real 1TB drive (yes, that’s a thing) which would bring the OS down to a reasonable ~50GB.

Another thing to consider is that the XBSX is going to require a custom designed storage expansion, while the PS5 is suppose to have a standard NVMe slot which you can readily buy now. Yes, there will be "verified" compatible models from manufacturers by Sony. That doesn't mean you couldn't buy a top end NVMe SSD on the market and put it in there (assuming it's the same interface like PCIe Gen3(4) x4). Since the interface of the PS5 NVMe expansion isn't known, nor the interface of the storage expansion of the XBSX, it's possible this is where the PS5 gets the one up on XBSX. The PS5 already has a faster factory storage interface than the XBSX (8-9GB/s compessed vs 6GB/s compressed). How much of a difference this will make with games is unknown right now, but it could be the difference between a minute loading screen and a 1.5 minute loading screen (as games get bigger this will become more noticeable).

Torgus · 03-19-2020, 11:20 AM

Wow a 2070? So when it is released it will have the capacity of a 3 year old gfx card, not even the highest model of that year? The 2070 came out in 2018.

This is stupid.

It's basically a 2021 console. That will have the capability of 2018 GPUs.

Both consoles need to be able to ray trace and run at 4k flawlessly. This is like tying your legs together before the race starts. I bet this is the shortest console generation ever.

The new gen of nvidia cards coming out this summer are supposed to be 40% faster than my 2080 at 4k and ray tracing. That is a future proof card. Put in the 2070 or 2060 version of that.

Joe240 · 03-19-2020, 11:56 AM

Looking at the current pricing for the RTX 2060, you'd be causing the console price to start at $700 or more. Few would buy it at that price.

Torgus · 03-19-2020, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe240

Looking at the current pricing for the RTX 2060, you'd be causing the console price to start at $700 or more. Few would buy it at that price.

Then wait a year and come out with a future proof console then? Blow M$ out of the water?

I am just saying the new consoles are going to start out handicapped in terms of where the marketis going: 4k 120 FPS/Raytracing.

Joe240 · 03-19-2020, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torgus

Then wait a year and come out with a future proof console then? Blow M$ out of the water?

I am just saying the new consoles are going to start out handicapped in terms of where the marketis going: 4k 120 FPS/Raytracing.

Doesn’t matter if they wait a year or 5. A low end/next gen card is always going to push the price of the consoles too high. Unless it’s a few years old in which case you’re back to where we are now and with every previous generation of consoles: still behind the PC in comparison to capabilities.

Even with the handicap though, consoles sell in the millions because they are relatively cheap (compared to PCs) and the function out of the box with next to zero issues (have fun with the bloatware on a PC). Just like with Apple products, people pay a reasonable premium for ease of use where everything just works all the time, every time without much (if any) effort. You plug up a console, set your resolution and internet connection and then start playing your games. PCs you have a lot more cabling to connect, have to spend time messing with video settings to get the optimal frame rates that work with your specific graphics card and monitor.

Joe240 · 04-10-2020, 05:18 PM

Saw on FB, can't find the post now if anyone can get the link.

Mintsopoulos · 04-10-2020, 05:46 PM

I think that new controller looks great. If thats what the console looks like...way better than the first renderings we saw with that V-Notch design.

obert · 04-10-2020, 06:36 PM

I read Rachet and Clank could be one of the launch games around the holidays this year for this system.

fullstack · 04-10-2020, 11:27 PM

The business model isn't that complicated. The real money is in software sales. The more units they have out there, the more resources developers put into developing titles for the hardware and the more money everyone makes off of software. They could put the top of the line hardware in there and sell the system at a loss to get it out there and recoup in software. However, that strategy also has a bottleneck on it because not many people have televisions that can support the resolution and refresh rates and people tend to keep tvs much longer. Thus we get mediocre hardware for a medium price.

11-11-2019, 11:40 AM	#23
Ickdeep Brigadier General 5724 Rep 4,209 Posts Drives: '13 F10 M5 \| '15 F15 X5 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2015 BMW X5 [10.00] 2013 BMW M5 [SOLD] [10.00] 2013 BMW 535i [SOLD] [10.00]	For those that have been playing the new Call of Duty Modern Warfare, there is a little Easter egg on the London map regarding a "Activision’s" console that happens to line up with the PS5 timeline. https://www.dexerto.com/call-of-duty...e-date-1206042 __________________ Stage 2 Tune BPM \| Fabworx DP \| SSP Performance Clutch \| Muffler & Resonator Delete Dinan Adjustable Springs \| Powder Coated 343 Wheels \| F&R Spacers \| RW Carbon Front Lip & Diffuser Sold!
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11-11-2019, 12:44 PM	#25
Joe240 Major 2932 Rep 1,304 Posts Drives: 2021 C8 Corvette 1LT Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pensacola iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 GMC Sierra AT4 [0.00] 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00]	We get it, “PC MASTERRACE!” 🙄 people miss the idea that we play console because of the slim form factor, convenience with minimal power usage, and the console exclusive titles. Sure, I can build a budget PC and use a console controller to play games on it. But I would also need to spend the time to configure the settings of each and every game I play so that it doesn’t run like shit on the budget graphics cards. Not to mention the convenience of just grabbing my controller, hitting the Ps button and the console, TV Soundbar all turn on at once. Using a PC I’d still have to turn on everything myself (call me lazy). Consoles have always brought one thing PC can’t and that’s Convenience. Try packing your PC into a pelican carry case to use as your personal item on an airplane. All of this doesn’t mean that consoles couldn’t have a modular design to them for APU, CPU/GPU, Storage (expansion even, add a second PCIe slot for NVMe SSDs!), and RAM. I believe it hasn’t been implemented with consoles because it’d kill sales during the midlife refresh that they typically do. However, they could offset this by offering extended warranties (I don’t buy them knowing the console will be refreshed in 3-4 years anyways), and even HW upgrade services or proprietary HW for those upgrades. We all know services make the most money, not the hardware. There’s a reason major companies are going to subscription based services, branching into new markets (PSVue) and offer other streaming services. Last edited by Joe240; 11-11-2019 at 12:50 PM..
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11-11-2019, 06:26 PM	#27
Joe240 Major 2932 Rep 1,304 Posts Drives: 2021 C8 Corvette 1LT Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pensacola iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 GMC Sierra AT4 [0.00] 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00]	They already design games specific for upgraded consoles though. Look at the games that will play on the OG PS4, but if you’re playing on a PS4Pro the graphics are switched to high gear and look even better? Developers already design the games to work on better hardware for the consoles. Even if the game wasn’t made during the age of the newer console (GTA5 for example), a simple patch fixes that and the new graphics are there for the new console. This is what plenty of games have done since live updates and online platforms have become a hit. Regarding price of upgrades, it has to be reasonable (obviously) but the OG consoles started at $400? $500? Back in 2011, while the PS4P came out at $400-500 as well. That’s $1k in 9 years (console life cycle) with a basic 1 year MFW warranty each. Add $100-300 for increased warranty coverage each. If they released a modular console at $350 (think ryzen 3 with 1650 graphics) base with a maxed version at $600 (think ryzen 7 with 2070 graphics) then in 4 years offer CPU/GPU upgrades at $100-300. The hardware upgrades would be able to utilize the same socket types (AM4 I believe now) so a whole new board and enclosure wouldn’t need to be R&D and manufactured which would save the company money, while they’d still make roughly the same profit off customers just from the hardware, but would generate more profit from the services offered. Sony and Microsoft already spend the R&D on the upgrades CPU/GPU for the console refreshes so they aren’t really spending any extra to generate new hardware for the modular design since it was going to be done anyways.
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11-13-2019, 11:10 AM	#28
nyalpine90 Lieutenant General 7543 Rep 11,927 Posts Drives: MY24 G01 AW Msport Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: L.I. NY iTrader: (4) Garage List 2016 BMW X4 [9.25]	new call of duty is out?
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11-13-2019, 10:25 PM	#30
rutilebros New Member 5 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2006 BMW 3 Series 325xi Wagon Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Sacramento, CA iTrader: (0)	I need to know what games are they going to release along with it.
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12-02-2019, 07:44 AM	#33
BMWL0v3r New Member 1 Rep 6 Posts Drives: BMW X5, BMW 118 Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	I really don't play playstation anymore after I bought PC..BUT I think I still need to buy it because FIFA and NHL 1 year anymore
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03-17-2020, 02:51 PM	#34
mirob Lieutenant Colonel 3918 Rep 1,994 Posts Drives: M3CX Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bomb City, TX iTrader: (0)	UPDATE! Look alive boys and girls, official reveal tomorrow, 03/18/2020! https://bgr.com/2020/03/17/ps5-relea...-launch-event/
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03-19-2020, 09:21 AM	#35
mirob Lieutenant Colonel 3918 Rep 1,994 Posts Drives: M3CX Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bomb City, TX iTrader: (0)	Well...I wanted to chew on this for at least a day before making any conclusions. Here's my thoughts... 1) I'm pretty disappointed that the PS5 is less powerful than the XBox Series X. I understand that it may not matter in the real world, but still. Pretty obvious that the PS team was caught off guard with the XBSX specs. I don't think they expected it to be that powerful. Kudos to MS. 2) Was hoping to see final console and controller design but wasn't expecting it since this was just a spec reveal. 3) My understanding was that the PS5 would be backwards compatible all the way through PS1, now it seems like it's not even for all PS4 games (top 100). I understand that it's a work in progress (software updates) but XBSX is backwards compatible all the way back out of the box. Kudos MS. 4) Strange choice for storage amount (825GB). May be enough for some but not for most. I maxed out my 500GB storage (mostly because COD MW updates are massive and have to take up double the space for copying) and had to get an external drive and I only play three games (FIFA, COD, GT Sport) and games are only going to get bigger. Seems like the tech is proprietary which means getting extended storage might be expensive and not available right away. 5) Seems like the latency/input lag has been greatly reduced between controller and console. Also from console to TV but only if you own one of the latest TVs that have HDMI 2.1 support. Bummer. 6) Leaks suggested that two PS5 would launch simultaneously instead of doing PRO and Slim versions as a life cycle refresh. Doesn't seem like that's the case right now. This is just my FOMO acting up though. 7) This is only based on speculation and leaks but the developer unit design looked terrible, especially next to the clean and classy XBSX design (yes, I know it looks like a literal box). I can only hope that's not the final design of the PS5. Time will tell. Only after I typed this out did I realize that most of my points are negative. I am slightly disappointed. Still picking one up when it launches if I can find one but I'm not going out of my way to do so. I'm still on the OG PS4 so I'm sure this will be leaps and bounds faster and better than it. What are your thoughts? Last edited by mirob; 03-19-2020 at 09:35 AM..
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03-19-2020, 10:13 AM	#36
Joe240 Major 2932 Rep 1,304 Posts Drives: 2021 C8 Corvette 1LT Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pensacola iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 GMC Sierra AT4 [0.00] 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00]	825GB of storage I think is the differential of a 1TB drive minus the overhead of bits (a 1TB drive doesn’t partition out to 1TB when formatted) and then the PS5 OS. Although it appears the OS is pushing 100GB itself which is ridiculous because the PS4 OS is only (guessing here from my HDD upgrade) 8GB for the foundation plus the patches and stuff bringing it to ~40GB. It’s possible that it’s a 960GB storage instead of a real 1TB drive (yes, that’s a thing) which would bring the OS down to a reasonable ~50GB. Another thing to consider is that the XBSX is going to require a custom designed storage expansion, while the PS5 is suppose to have a standard NVMe slot which you can readily buy now. Yes, there will be "verified" compatible models from manufacturers by Sony. That doesn't mean you couldn't buy a top end NVMe SSD on the market and put it in there (assuming it's the same interface like PCIe Gen3(4) x4). Since the interface of the PS5 NVMe expansion isn't known, nor the interface of the storage expansion of the XBSX, it's possible this is where the PS5 gets the one up on XBSX. The PS5 already has a faster factory storage interface than the XBSX (8-9GB/s compessed vs 6GB/s compressed). How much of a difference this will make with games is unknown right now, but it could be the difference between a minute loading screen and a 1.5 minute loading screen (as games get bigger this will become more noticeable). Last edited by Joe240; 03-19-2020 at 11:31 AM..
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03-19-2020, 11:20 AM	#37
Torgus Slow. 3796 Rep 7,160 Posts Drives: N54 6466 100% E85 + Meth Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 BMW E92 [10.00] 2007 BMW E90 [0.00] 2006 BMW E91 [0.00]	Wow a 2070? So when it is released it will have the capacity of a 3 year old gfx card, not even the highest model of that year? The 2070 came out in 2018. This is stupid. It's basically a 2021 console. That will have the capability of 2018 GPUs. Both consoles need to be able to ray trace and run at 4k flawlessly. This is like tying your legs together before the race starts. I bet this is the shortest console generation ever. The new gen of nvidia cards coming out this summer are supposed to be 40% faster than my 2080 at 4k and ray tracing. That is a future proof card. Put in the 2070 or 2060 version of that. __________________ E92 6466 E85 + Meth/ E70 #1 fully deleted 2.8 race flash / E70 #2 JBD / E90 & E91 both tuned & retired Psalm 144
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03-19-2020, 11:56 AM	#38
Joe240 Major 2932 Rep 1,304 Posts Drives: 2021 C8 Corvette 1LT Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pensacola iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 GMC Sierra AT4 [0.00] 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00]	Looking at the current pricing for the RTX 2060, you'd be causing the console price to start at $700 or more. Few would buy it at that price.
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04-10-2020, 05:18 PM	#41
Joe240 Major 2932 Rep 1,304 Posts Drives: 2021 C8 Corvette 1LT Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Pensacola iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 GMC Sierra AT4 [0.00] 2019 BMW X3 M40i [0.00]	Saw on FB, can't find the post now if anyone can get the link. Attached Images __________________ Project Car: DF Goblin -Built LSJ-T 2021 C8 Corvette 1LT 2021 Model Y Performance
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04-10-2020, 05:46 PM	#42
Mintsopoulos Captain 672 Rep 602 Posts Drives: '15 MW F80 6MT Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	I think that new controller looks great. If thats what the console looks like...way better than the first renderings we saw with that V-Notch design. __________________ #TMGPS For The Gram
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04-10-2020, 06:36 PM	#43
obert Brigadier General 1788 Rep 4,452 Posts Drives: 2013 328i Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Seattle Wa iTrader: (49)	I read Rachet and Clank could be one of the launch games around the holidays this year for this system.
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04-10-2020, 11:27 PM	#44
fullstack First Lieutenant 337 Rep 359 Posts Drives: around in circles. Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	The business model isn't that complicated. The real money is in software sales. The more units they have out there, the more resources developers put into developing titles for the hardware and the more money everyone makes off of software. They could put the top of the line hardware in there and sell the system at a loss to get it out there and recoup in software. However, that strategy also has a bottleneck on it because not many people have televisions that can support the resolution and refresh rates and people tend to keep tvs much longer. Thus we get mediocre hardware for a medium price.
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