How "Common Courtesy" is Spoiling Bad Drivers

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Wait what? Roundabouts are factually better than any other type of intersection. What do you mean they aren't a good idea lol.

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Opinions vary but for me, two lane 4 way laws are simple. Multi lane roundabouts are bedlam but looks like I'm a minority

I agree with both. I think two problems in the U.S. contribute to our reluctance to accept them. Years ago a lot of roundabouts in the U.S. were poorly designed, constructed, and marked and they were confusing and hard to use. The other problem with acceptance is their rarity. They are so few and far between the unfamiliarity when American drivers encounter them does make them confusing for a lot of drivers. As the mayor of Carmel said, politicians don’t want to risk getting “unelected”. Carmel had the advantage of being small enough that making the conversion was manageable and the mayor was extraordinarily committed to them. Unfortunately, in a city like Chicago I think the obstacles to making the conversion are pretty much insurmountable. At this point even if there was public acceptance the logistics make it virtually impossible. Roundabouts take up more space than square intersections and there are businesses located at virtually every intersection that would be displaced and put out of business.

Speaking of sitting at red lights unnecessarily. There are several places on my daily route where I take side streets with four way stops, because it’s faster for me to make a couple of quick stops at stop signs and keep moving rather than get stuck sitting at a traffic light all by myself or even sitting in a line of traffic at a traffic light.

[Car-Addicted]

Most likely my lack of fondness for traffic circles has to do with all my years dealing with Boston traffic. My time in SCCA Showroom stock D was training for Boston driving.

As for traffic lights we could do a lot better. Since we are so concerned about consumption of fossil fuels these days, a line of cars sitting at a 4 way or traffic light is not as efficient as a traffic circle. I guess given the choice between a ICE with ASS (Auto start Stop) and a traffic circle, I'm going traffic circle.

[ezaircon4jc]

Speaking of traffic circles...



And they're driving on the wrong side of the road!

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Wait what? Roundabouts are factually better than any other type of intersection. What do you mean they aren't a good idea lol.

Ironically, this article about the safety benefits of roundabouts was on one of our regional web news sites just yesterday:

https://hudsonvalleypost.com/ixp/704...y-roundabouts/

[freakystyly]

I go through 6-10 roundabouts daily, depending on the route, and couple are 3 lanes. They definitely decrease serious accidents but increase the frequency of an accident. Pedestrians get the short end of the stick with many drivers not watching for them at all.

Retrofitting them into city centers makes no sense. You need a large footprint (think about transport trucks turning too).

[Esteban]

Thought this was interesting about cities with the most dangerous drivers:

The data Forbes Advisor collected and analyzed reveals clear trends about which cities have the most dangerous drivers.

Albuquerque, New Mexico, tops the list of cities with the worst drivers, followed by Memphis, Tennessee; Detroit, Michigan; Tucson, Arizona; and Kansas City, Missouri.

Three of the top 15 cities with the worst drivers are located in Texas, including Dallas, Fort Worth and San Antonio.

Three of the top 10 cities with the best drivers are located in California, Including San Francisco, Oakland and San Diego.

Memphis, Tennessee has the highest number of fatal car accidents involving a drunk driver (7.5 per 100,000 city residents) and Albuquerque, New Mexico has the highest number of fatal car accidents involving a distracted driver (5.42 per 100,000 city residents).

And more...

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-i...ivers-by-city/

[Alfisti]

There is no debate, roundabouts are a million times better than RELENTLES 4 way stops. Traffic moves better, it's faster, uses less gas and less wear and tear on the car.

They are not designed to be in city centres, it's suburbia that they work best. And they do not need to be big, space is not an issue, a tiny one works just as well as a big one.

The 4 way stops are infuriating, people sit there staring at each other when one guy was clearly first then you get this jerky half commitment from everyone as the first bloke fucked it all up for the entire intersection. Just garbage.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The 4 way stops are infuriating, people sit there staring at each other when one guy was clearly first then you get this jerky half commitment from everyone as the first bloke fucked it all up for the entire intersection. Just garbage.

Or they flash their lights or beep at you.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Or they flash their lights or beep at you.

OMG. Buddy, YOU WERE THERE FIRST. I made note of it, you were clear as day there, waiting and I was still coming to a stop. Gooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

I go through 6-10 roundabouts daily, depending on the route, and couple are 3 lanes. They definitely decrease serious accidents but increase the frequency of an accident. Pedestrians get the short end of the stick with many drivers not watching for them at all.

Retrofitting them into city centers makes no sense. You need a large footprint (think about transport trucks turning too).

I found that part about increasing wrecks, just fewer fatal wrecks was interesting. Saving lives is important, but in all honesty I’m not sure how I feel about the increase in wrecks overall. That increases inconvenience and costs, both repair and insurance, for everyone.

Originally Posted by Esteban

Thought this was interesting about cities with the most dangerous drivers:



And more...

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-i...ivers-by-city/

They must have not driven in Chicagoland. The drivers here are the absolute worst of anywhere I have ever driven. I lived in Fort Worth for seventeen years and I didn’t have any big problems with the drivers there. I’ve always experienced frustration with other drivers everywhere I’ve lived, but over the last two years of having to drive almost every day in Chicagoland I have actually grown to hate Chicago drivers and I’ve never felt that way about an entire group of drivers before. I have much less “common courtesy” with incompetent drivers here than I used to have just two years ago.

I grew up in Lubbock which is about 70 miles from New Mexico and they would all come to Lubbock on the weekends to go shopping. I developed a cardinal rule that I would NEVER drive behind a car with a yellow New Mexico license plate!! New Mexico drivers drive slower than you can possibly imagine. They seem to think they are always driving on twisty New Mexico mountain roads, even when they are on the flat as a board high plains of Texas.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

OMG. Buddy, YOU WERE THERE FIRST. I made note of it, you were clear as day there, waiting and I was still coming to a stop. Gooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Idiots!!

[bagekko]

No one really cares about saving lives or road safety, else they wouldn't be cheap bastards and use good paint so you can see the lines at night or in the rain.

Agree roundabouts are better, but their rarity in the US has made the general public idiots on how to navigate them from inexperience. Even after a new one pops up, it still won't flow very well years later.

Overall the average driver in the US is prolly one of the worst compared to anywhere in the world.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I found that part about increasing wrecks, just fewer fatal wrecks was interesting. Saving lives is important, but in all honesty I’m not sure how I feel about the increase in wrecks overall. That increases inconvenience and costs, both repair and insurance, for everyone.


They must have not driven in Chicagoland. The drivers here are the absolute worst of anywhere I have ever driven. I lived in Fort Worth for seventeen years and I didn’t have any big problems with the drivers there. I’ve always experienced frustration with other drivers everywhere I’ve lived, but over the last two years of having to drive almost every day in Chicagoland I have actually grown to hate Chicago drivers and I’ve never felt that way about an entire group of drivers before. I have much less “common courtesy” with incompetent drivers here than I used to have just two years ago.

[Alfisti]

To be fair to US drivers, some of that is due to the RIGID way roads are set up. Arrow straight, stop signs everywhere, grid format etc.

[M-technik-3]

Look It's all about ME. I'm first and skip everyone else on the road is the new mentality.

Was nearly taken out by someone this morning that felt at 0530 that they need not stop for a red light.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Thought this was interesting about cities with the most dangerous drivers:



And more...

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/car-i...ivers-by-city/

I would have to disagree with San Diego being one of the best; unless the results are on a curve! Stopping at a "right on red" is optional, it's more of a look-and-go; same with stop signs. Need to merge? Take a number. left lane campers galore. I rather enjoy the "greyhounds" in the carpool (Mario Andretti) lane. Let the 85+ mile an hourers get the ticket! Also the lane jumpers, darting in and out of lanes and not making any progress; and that's not just the freeways. I especially like the dudes doing 35 in a 40 or 50.

Then again, maybe that survey was many, many moons ago. In that case, I would agree. When I got my license over 50 years ago I would say we (SoCal) had the best drivers in the country. Today, not so much.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

I guess this is a bit skewed on a car forum as we probably have some sense of the car and road. most people on the road are absolutely clueless to anything going on around them. These same people will stop in the middle of a city street and when I plow them over they look at me as the aggressor.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I would have to disagree with San Diego being one of the best; unless the results are on a curve! Stopping at a "right on red" is optional, it's more of a look-and-go; same with stop signs. Need to merge? Take a number. left lane campers galore. I rather enjoy the "greyhounds" in the carpool (Mario Andretti) lane. Let the 85+ mile an hourers get the ticket! Also the lane jumpers, darting in and out of lanes and not making any progress; and that's not just the freeways. I especially like the dudes doing 35 in a 40 or 50.

Then again, maybe that survey was many, many moons ago. In that case, I would agree. When I got my license over 50 years ago I would say we (SoCal) had the best drivers in the country. Today, not so much.

The article was published in Feb 2024.

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

90% of the problem is the north american obsession with 4 way stops. There's just no need for so many 4 way stops. Add the rule of "he who gets there first goes first" and it's fucking utter bedlam as people WHO WERE CLEARLY FUCKING THERE FIRST sit there staring at you.

Roundabouts people, roundabouts.

Jesus.

my area doesn't have that many roundabouts.... but at the two near me, people are confused. people who are already in the roundabout are yielding to people entering the roundabout. then there are some who don't seem to know how to drive in a circular pattern. not really surprised because at most high schools, driver's ed is a joke. don't even get me started on how many drivers come to a complete stop when they are trying to exit roundabout. just saw one a couple of hours ago. the guy stopped, causing all of the cars in the roundabout to come to a stop, then he proceeded to make a 90-degree turn to exit the roundabout and enter another street. I would have honked, but it happens all the time and if I honked each time, my horns would have worn out by now. (sorry... rant over)

[UncleWede]

Trying to be a courteous driver

2 lane road will merge into single in about 1/2 mile. I’m in lane 1 overtaking a semi in 2. Want to get past, all the vehicles except one have moved over and passed the semi

As I’m closing on the last she (judging by hair) makes a sharp left-right swerve towards my lane. Being courteous, I lift and flash my lights. She gets right over, but then proceeds to accelerate at about 2mph faster than truck

She barely passes just as the lanes merge, both I and truck have to slow down, and I end up behind the semi who now seems to decide he needs to clear all the debris from the breakdown lane

FUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Trying to be a courteous driver

2 lane road will merge into single in about 1/2 mile. I’m in lane 1 overtaking a semi in 2. Want to get past, all the vehicles except one have moved over and passed the semi

As I’m closing on the last she (judging by hair) makes a sharp left-right swerve towards my lane. Being courteous, I lift and flash my lights. She gets right over, but then proceeds to accelerate at about 2mph faster than truck

She barely passes just as the lanes merge, both I and truck have to slow down, and I end up behind the semi who now seems to decide he needs to clear all the debris from the breakdown lane

FUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!

I decided quite some time ago I never willingly let anyone get in front of me. Even more so in this kind of a situation. Other drivers are stupid and they don’t care about how what they do affects anyone else.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilver.X1

my area doesn't have that many roundabouts.... but at the two near me, people are confused. people who are already in the roundabout are yielding to people entering the roundabout. then there are some who don't seem to know how to drive in a circular pattern. not really surprised because at most high schools, driver's ed is a joke. don't even get me started on how many drivers come to a complete stop when they are trying to exit roundabout. just saw one a couple of hours ago. the guy stopped, causing all of the cars in the roundabout to come to a stop, then he proceeded to make a 90-degree turn to exit the roundabout and enter another street. I would have honked, but it happens all the time and if I honked each time, my horns would have worn out by now. (sorry... rant over)

You should have honked. Your horn can take it. And, thankfully, BMWs have strong horns. I honk at idiots all the time these days. And I don’t just give a quick toot. I lean on it. I’ve honked more in the last two years than in the previous 45 years.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by bagekko

No one really cares about saving lives or road safety, else they wouldn't be cheap bastards and use good paint so you can see the lines at night or in the rain.

Agree roundabouts are better, but their rarity in the US has made the general public idiots on how to navigate them from inexperience. Even after a new one pops up, it still won't flow very well years later.

Overall the average driver in the US is prolly one of the worst compared to anywhere in the world.

Accurate on all counts.