PLEASE HELP - 2023 X6 Oil in Coolant - Dealer WON'T WARRANTY

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by alex2364

That’s not how it works in the US.

So a leasing company can give you a borked vehicle and its your problem?

[mjr24]

Take it to Knauz from now on…..problem solved.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by Chilled

So a leasing company can give you a borked vehicle and its your problem?

There's no need to go anti-American about it. If you financed a used vehicle, would you expect the finance company to automatically provide you an additional warranty beyond the one that the manufacturer provides? No. Then why would it be any different if you leased a used vehicle? They are basically the same thing with the primary difference being that the leasing company is effectively agreeing to buy the vehicle back at a certain time at a given price.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Chilled

So a leasing company can give you a borked vehicle and its your problem?

He didn’t get anything from the lease company. He agreed to a lease transfer from the previous lessee. And if you want to compare US vs Australia, last time I checked car prices are much cheaper here!

[DrVenture]

If the original lease was from BMW Financial Services and they are still the leasing company, then the only thing that changed was the name on the lease. In that case, BMW both owns and warranties the vehicle.

If you went into a BMW dealer inquiring about a lease and said, "Supposing the thermostat sticks closed and the engine overheats suddenly, then I discover oil in the coolant after a new thermostat, who pays for repairs?", they will 100% tell you that it all will be covered under warranty. And it should be.

[PappadocX6M50i]

UPDATE: Patrick via the field engineer did a pressure test and everything came out good. They want to do several more flushes, replacement the thermostat (3rd one in 4 months) and charge me $2,800 AND have the SA drive my car for 300-400 miles (at $1,400/mo mind you)! IF oil comes back, they will cover it. If it goes away, I am struck spending that money (plus $1,300 I spent on flushes, hoses, etc. privately after Fields suggested it).

Rallye BMW in NY screwed up (prior lessee) and failed to diagnose this when they replaced 2 thermostats in the spring bc they had no reason to check the coolant. I was due for 10K service so that's why Fields/Patrick (Chicago) checked the coolant (found oil) and BMW wants me to cover this crap. How the F does a new car need 3 thermostats in 4 months and I'm paying for it!? I don't even own the car! I don't have weeks to fight with them while my car sits there. This may be my last BMW...

THANK YOU EVERYONE for your help and comments! Really appreciate it!

[dscabra]

If oil is getting into the coolant through some internal leak, I'd also expect to see coolant in the oil as well. If it's only oil in the coolant, I suspect that it was put there in error as the original dealer suspects.

[DrVenture]

^^Agreed. When the oil pressure is higher than coolant pressure, it would let oil into coolant (when cold) and the opposite when hot, presumably.

I am also wondering what CEL code was stored when check engine was triggered? Perhaps oil in coolant can cause the water pump to not move coolant efficiently and cause heat issues.

Additionally, if one were inclined to test a thermostat, it could be put in hot water with an appropriate thermometer and watched to see at which temperature it opens. A lot of thermostats open around 170-180 degrees F.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

If the original lease was from BMW Financial Services and they are still the leasing company, then the only thing that changed was the name on the lease. In that case, BMW both owns and warranties the vehicle.

If you went into a BMW dealer inquiring about a lease and said, "Supposing the thermostat sticks closed and the engine overheats suddenly, then I discover oil in the coolant after a new thermostat, who pays for repairs?", they will 100% tell you that it all will be covered under warranty. And it should be.

Except all manufacturers don't cover bonehead moves. Warranties cover against defects in material and assembly, not guarantee the car will remain perfect throughout the ownership.

Say you're in a bar, flirting with some chick, and your current girl is outside and knows
Unbeknownst to you, she digs her key into the side of your pretty little Souper up 4wd, carves her name into your leather seats, takes a Louisville slugger to both headlights, and slash a hole in all 4 tires. You're not going to expect a warranty to cover that damage, none of that was due to manufacturer fault.

The OP transferred lease from someone who knew they needed to get out of the car. BMWFS doesn't care because the new leaseholder is responsible for amy damages just like the original leaseholder. Just like any private party transaction, a PPI would have saved a lot of heartache here (and money).

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Except all manufacturers don't cover bonehead moves. Warranties cover against defects in material and assembly, not guarantee the car will remain perfect throughout the ownership.

Say you're in a bar, flirting with some chick, and your current girl is outside and knows
Unbeknownst to you, she digs her key into the side of your pretty little Souper up 4wd, carves her name into your leather seats, takes a Louisville slugger to both headlights, and slash a hole in all 4 tires. You're not going to expect a warranty to cover that damage, none of that was due to manufacturer fault.

The OP transferred lease from someone who knew they needed to get out of the car. BMWFS doesn't care because the new leaseholder is responsible for amy damages just like the original leaseholder. Just like any private party transaction, a PPI would have saved a lot of heartache here (and money).

We know that now. But, that wasn't confirmed until after I posted that. We also do not know why the car has needed 3 thermostats, which is pretty darn odd.

And, yes, I actually read the entire thread, thank you for the summary and the colorful story. Speaking from experience?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Except all manufacturers don't cover bonehead moves. Warranties cover against defects in material and assembly, not guarantee the car will remain perfect throughout the ownership.

Say you're in a bar, flirting with some chick, and your current girl is outside and knows
Unbeknownst to you, she digs her key into the side of your pretty little Souper up 4wd, carves her name into your leather seats, takes a Louisville slugger to both headlights, and slash a hole in all 4 tires. You're not going to expect a warranty to cover that damage, none of that was due to manufacturer fault.

The OP transferred lease from someone who knew they needed to get out of the car. BMWFS doesn't care because the new leaseholder is responsible for amy damages just like the original leaseholder. Just like any private party transaction, a PPI would have saved a lot of heartache here (and money).

You forgot one thing there Carrie Underwood....BMW hasn't come out and told him "this is not covered under warranty because the problem was caused by misuse". He now has two dealers who haven't diagnosed the problem and want to charge him for diagnosics.

The car is under warranty until BMW says it isn't. And provides evidence why it shouldn't be.

OP, I'm not sure why you're even remotely considering 3rd party mechanics or out of pocket expenses for something that should be covered under warranty. Go rent a car if they aren't giving you a loaner and tell them to keep your car until it's fixed or they have found out what's wrong.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

We know that now. But, that wasn't confirmed until after I posted that. We also do not know why the car has needed 3 thermostats, which is pretty darn odd.

And, yes, I actually read the entire thread, thank you for the summary and the colorful story. Speaking from experience?

No. Not personally. But I mean, I've heard it before.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WaSy8yy-mr8

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You forgot one thing there Carrie Underwood....BMW hasn't come out and told him "this is not covered under warranty because the problem was caused by misuse". He now has two dealers who haven't diagnosed the problem and want to charge him for diagnosics.

The car is under warranty until BMW says it isn't. And provides evidence why it shouldn't be.

OP, I'm not sure why you're even remotely considering 3rd party mechanics or out of pocket expenses for something that should be covered under warranty. Go rent a car if they aren't giving you a loaner and tell them to keep your car until it's fixed or they have found out what's wrong.

Hah, at least someone got the reference!

I think you're reaching a little. They're not gonna just come out and say "no we aren't gonna even look at it, we think someone did this on purpose" without looking. The first dealer would have likely done a leak down check, found no issue, and deduced that of there's no leak issues, it must have been put in by someone directly.

The thermostats is odd, but maybe they kept being contaminated with oil. I could see that being the reason for so many replacements.

My question is how much oil are we talking about. Are we talking full on milkshake, or are we talking about boogers of oil? It's insane how much it takes to fully clean out a coolant system of oil. Went through this on a 996 Porsche, it took hundreds of gallons to fully flush it out from a cracked head. You've got lots of coolers, you've got pipes hoses, passageways in the heads, you've got a heater core... Lots of places for oil boogers to hide.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by PappadocX6M50i

... Just got my 2023 M50i off Swapalease. Couple days later the CEL goes on...

You may want to know what CEL code was present. Did the vehicle overheat on you? Did the vehicles service history reveal why they replace two thermostats previously? CELs? Overheating? Something else?

These are the questions that I would be asking.

[PappadocX6M50i]

UPDATE from Patrick BMW below. This sure as hell isn't from someone supposedly putting oil in the coolant! Mind you I also had it flushed 3x before this, replaced hoses, tank, etc. Something is wrong and they don't know what.

BMW's Field rep came out today and inspected the vehicle. He took pictures of the oil in the coolant that is present there at the moment. He is still unsure if this is residual from the cooling system being driven and oil thinning out and going to the highest point in the cooling system. He would like us to continue to drive the vehicle and continue to monitor the amount of oil in the cooling system. Per the field rep, he is still unsure where the oil has come from since we have performed both pressure tests and vacuum tests of the cooling system, and they are all holding the appropriate pressures. The field rep has given us some guidance on the thermostat faults stored in the vehicle since it has been replaced twice already. We are going to begin diagnosing the thermostat faults stored in the vehicle. We will be monitoring the coolant temp sensors on the radiator and engine to ensure they are functioning correctly and checking the water pump.

[DrVenture]

Another thing to consider is that if oil is getting into the coolant under pressure, then the opposite should also be happening once the cooling system pressurizes. I have not seen any info that coolant is also mixing with the oil. Is it? This would lead to a certain amount of confusion, as the cooling system pressure is much higher than crankcase pressure once warmed up.

Also, if oil is getting into the coolant, and never the other way around, the cold fill level should be rising over time. Is it?

I would love to know what diag led to three thermostats and what CEL/symptoms led to you taking it in. I am still not completely ruling out oil being trapped in the cooling system, since they are so hard to rid of air, there could be "pockets", I suppose.

Couldn't they put some sort of dye into the oil and monitor the coolant for that? Just a thought.

[Bret]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

Couldn't they put some sort of dye into the oil and monitor the coolant for that? Just a thought.

That's literally what I was getting ready to type.

[BlkGS]

How much oil is the question. If it's small boogers of oil, like residual amounts, and leak/pressure tests passed, that does suggest that someone put oil in the wrong hole, and they're still cleaning every last bit out. If it's full on milkshake, that suggests an active leak, and that should show up on a pressure/leak test.

[DrVenture]

If it were my car, and I believed it was just residual oil from dumbassery, I might just keep skimming or draining the coolant tank alone. As it seems to be collecting there. And likely floating on top. This is considering that the system was already flushed a few times to get the majority out.

[David70]

Originally Posted by PappadocX6M50i

UPDATE: Patrick via the field engineer did a pressure test and everything came out good. They want to do several more flushes, replacement the thermostat (3rd one in 4 months) and charge me $2,800 AND have the SA drive my car for 300-400 miles (at $1,400/mo mind you)! IF oil comes back, they will cover it. If it goes away, I am struck spending that money (plus $1,300 I spent on flushes, hoses, etc. privately after Fields suggested it).

Rallye BMW in NY screwed up (prior lessee) and failed to diagnose this when they replaced 2 thermostats in the spring bc they had no reason to check the coolant. I was due for 10K service so that's why Fields/Patrick (Chicago) checked the coolant (found oil) and BMW wants me to cover this crap. How the F does a new car need 3 thermostats in 4 months and I'm paying for it!? I don't even own the car! I don't have weeks to fight with them while my car sits there. This may be my last BMW...

THANK YOU EVERYONE for your help and comments! Really appreciate it!

I'm not following why they would want to replace the thermostat again? And if they think it's the problem this part should be at their cost as it was recently replaced.

Why would the SA need to drive it for 300-400 miles?

Seems like you could flush a ton of coolant through the system for not a lot of money. It eventually comes clean and after this if oil shows up it is their problem. How much oil are you seeing?