24 Audi RS3, 24 BMW M2, 24 VW Golf R

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by mjj

Your definition of your wife being frugal was interesting being she has an M5 and came from an M3. Frugal to me is 2002 Chevy Malibu with 190,000 miles.

My wife’s definition of frugal is similar to yours. LOL

This x9999999999999999

No one frugal goes from M3 to M5 lol come on man

[Egrunt]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

This x9999999999999999


No one frugal goes from M3 to M5 lol come on man

My wifes car is a 2012 VW GTI as stated in the first post, I purchased the M3 and M5 not her. She wanted no part in spending that much money on the M3 and M5. She begrundgingly agreeded to an increase from 48k for the Golf R to 70k but she is already rethinking her choice and now wants to look at a Civic Si for an MSRP of $30k.

[MJBO]

I'm confused as to why you're pushing her to spend more than twice as much as she wants to.

All of the three vehicles you listed in the OP are good, though the Golf feels like an outlier. M2 is a fun drive, RS3 has a wicked sound track.

As others have said, M240i is worth a look as it arguably sounds better out of the box, has the same interior/sound system, and is notably cheaper. Comes in xDrive too.

Having shopped for a car for my wife recently, she decided on M240i xDrive as she preferred the look, and the performance was more than enough (stepping up from a G01 X3 xDrive30i). I liked that it was xDrive too considering it's her first properly powerful car.

[Egrunt]

Originally Posted by MJBO

I'm confused as to why you're pushing her to spend more than twice as much as she wants to.

All of the three vehicles you listed in the OP are good, though the Golf feels like an outlier. M2 is a fun drive, RS3 has a wicked sound track.

As others have said, M240i is worth a look as it arguably sounds better out of the box, has the same interior/sound system, and is notably cheaper. Comes in xDrive too.

Having shopped for a car for my wife recently, she decided on M240i xDrive as she preferred the look, and the performance was more than enough (stepping up from a G01 X3 xDrive30i). I liked that it was xDrive too considering it's her first properly powerful car.

The difference is 20k/21k from the Golf R (48k) to the Audi RS3 (68k) and M2 (69k). When we looked at a M240i xDrive as optioned it came in at 62k and my suggestion was to consider the M2 for 7k more, hence the reason for the M2 over the M240i xDrive. She wants to drive an automatic and even though she learned how to drive on a manual transmission and early on in our marriage all vehicles had to be a manual transmission this is no longer the case with the congested roads in SOCAL (San Diego County). She considered the Integra Type S at 51k but it only comes in a manual transmission.

At the end of the day, I am here to answer the questions she has about the vehicles she likes and is considering and I am in now way telling her which way to go but when she asks me a question or my opinion, I am going to answer truthfully. Truthfully she knows if it were a vehicle for me, I would not choose none she is considering but we very rarely agree on vehicles since we have been married.

I know that over the past several months she has always gravitated back to the RS3 but she did not want us to pay 68k for the vehicle and keeps considering the Golf R only because of the price. I have told her and she knows as well that we have the money and I will be writing a check for vehicle no matter what direction she chooses.

[gameson]

would never buy anything in VW group (except porsche since porsche technically uses its own platform besides their SUV which is shared with VW group, which also i would not buy as well), including lambo and audi. so my vote is bmw since you don't include benz and boxster in your list.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by gameson

would never buy anything in VW group (except porsche since porsche technically uses its own platform besides their SUV which is shared with VW group, which also i would not buy as well), including lambo and audi. so my vote is bmw since you don't include benz and boxster in your list.

I lost brain cells reading this.

[x622]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

The difference is 20k/21k from the Golf R (48k) to the Audi RS3 (68k) and M2 (69k). When we looked at a M240i xDrive as optioned it came in at 62k and my suggestion was to consider the M2 for 7k more, hence the reason for the M2 over the M240i xDrive. She wants to drive an automatic and even though she learned how to drive on a manual transmission and early on in our marriage all vehicles had to be a manual transmission this is no longer the case with the congested roads in SOCAL (San Diego County). She considered the Integra Type S at 51k but it only comes in a manual transmission.

At the end of the day, I am here to answer the questions she has about the vehicles she likes and is considering and I am in now way telling her which way to go but when she asks me a question or my opinion, I am going to answer truthfully. Truthfully she knows if it were a vehicle for me, I would not choose none she is considering but we very rarely agree on vehicles since we have been married.

I know that over the past several months she has always gravitated back to the RS3 but she did not want us to pay 68k for the vehicle and keeps considering the Golf R only because of the price. I have told her and she knows as well that we have the money and I will be writing a check for vehicle no matter what direction she chooses.

If she truly cares about "price" she should look at the TCO and factor in the depreciation curve and running costs. Yes the Golf R has a lower initial price, but they also drop faster than the RS3 year by year in depreciation.

A cursory glance at say autotrader;
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ars/audi/rs-3/

5 year old models with 50-60k on them still go for near 50k. This is less than a 10-15k delta from new, which to say the least is an outlier for the marque.


You compare this to the Golf r;
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...swagen/golf-r/

And you'll see that the same 5 year old car that sold new at 45k is under 30k with miles. She might say "oh but it's the same dollar amount" sure, but it's higher in terms of percentage. The older you go back, the worse it gets for the Golf R. Why is that? Because it's not special. Sure it's a little special, it's the only non-mediocre VW, but it doesn't have the only i5 in the entire world.

Unique or special things like this will usually always retain more value than a regular pedestrian version of anything.

I welcome anyone to make a point that the RS3 is not the answer. Your biggest problem will be keeping your foot out of it, followed by not modding it. Stage 2+ they can really rip.

[BlkGS]

I think at some point the allure of the I5 will fade. Unique for the sake of unique isn't necessarily better.

Why is M340i not on the list again? It's down a little power to RS3, but it's also splitting the difference of capability between the M2 and RS3. I understand not including the M3 because its hideous front end, but M340 doesn't have that, can come with AWD, gets you the better inline 6, and a little more space, and isn't FWD based. It's probably cheaper too, though admittedly depreciation on it will be worse.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think at some point the allure of the I5 will fade. Unique for the sake of unique isn't necessarily better.

Why is M340i not on the list again? It's down a little power to RS3, but it's also splitting the difference of capability between the M2 and RS3. I understand not including the M3 because its hideous front end, but M340 doesn't have that, can come with AWD, gets you the better inline 6, and a little more space, and isn't FWD based. It's probably cheaper too, though admittedly depreciation on it will be worse.

That's why I suggested the M240. It shares the same engine and both can be made faster than the RS3 for about $500. I guess it depends on if you want 2 or 4 doors.

What kept me away from the RS3 is that:

1. You're not getting a discount, and will probably pay a premium. $1500 discount is easy on either BMW's, so yes, the M340 may even be less than an RS3.
2. Very limited production, I was told year wait.
3. Audi reliability. Is it worth the headache? And VW is actually a little worse than Audi.

Yes the depreciation on the on the RS3 may be better, but you're starting off about $12k better with a M240. I do like the looks of the RS3 the best though.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

The difference is 20k/21k from the Golf R (48k) to the Audi RS3 (68k) and M2 (69k). When we looked at a M240i xDrive as optioned it came in at 62k and my suggestion was to consider the M2 for 7k more, hence the reason for the M2 over the M240i xDrive. She wants to drive an automatic and even though she learned how to drive on a manual transmission and early on in our marriage all vehicles had to be a manual transmission this is no longer the case with the congested roads in SOCAL (San Diego County). She considered the Integra Type S at 51k but it only comes in a manual transmission.

New M240s can be had for well under MSRP and there are a ton of barely used ones on the market now for lower 50s. You'd save $20K+ compared to the M2.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think at some point the allure of the I5 will fade. Unique for the sake of unique isn't necessarily better.

Why is M340i not on the list again? It's down a little power to RS3, but it's also splitting the difference of capability between the M2 and RS3. I understand not including the M3 because its hideous front end, but M340 doesn't have that, can come with AWD, gets you the better inline 6, and a little more space, and isn't FWD based. It's probably cheaper too, though admittedly depreciation on it will be worse.

An M340i doesn't feel special at all though...it's just a faster 3 series. At least the RS3 does feel like something more interesting (out of the box...not talking about price or mods, etc.). Base car vs base car. It used to be the same argument I had when selling my M340i for the RS5. Some people would say yeah but an M440i GC is almost as fast. That may be true, but it's the intangible of being an RS car (like an M or AMG) that you can't replace.

[Arcades]

Considering the cars listed, the RS3 is probably the best of them. Despite the higher price, it has a good combination of things your looking for. Yes, the backseat is extremely small and bad for adults but at least it does have 4 doors.

If your wife is not in favor of the more recent BMW interior and exterior design, then that would also rule out the Golf R due to its interior design. Which would leave you with the RS3. If price is no object, RS3 is literally the only one left you should consider.

You don't buy these cars for resale value, otherwise you wouldn't touch anyone of them. As an upside, for whatever reason, Audi brand is popular with women. Do not overthink cars, do what your wife is already leaning into if she has already written off the Golf R and M2 for small things she will complain about.

[ShocknAwe]

RS3. Easy choice.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

That's why I suggested the M240. It shares the same engine and both can be made faster than the RS3 for about $500. I guess it depends on if you want 2 or 4 doors.

What kept me away from the RS3 is that:

1. You're not getting a discount, and will probably pay a premium. $1500 discount is easy on either BMW's, so yes, the M340 may even be less than an RS3.
2. Very limited production, I was told year wait.
3. Audi reliability. Is it worth the headache? And VW is actually a little worse than Audi.

Yes the depreciation on the on the RS3 may be better, but you're starting off about $12k better with a M240. I do like the looks of the RS3 the best though.

Inline 6 is probably the smoothest engine available other than a V12 (2x inline 6s). It’s just not as compact from a packaging perspective as an I4 or a V8. But you can have V8 power with nearly I4 efficiency. There’s a reason BMW keeps perfecting it and has won so many engine design awards for almost every iteration of it.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Egrunt

Looking for the next vehicle for my of 37 years, she is very frugal but I have her considering the price difference from a Golf R to the Audi RS3 and BMW M2.

We currently have a 18 BMW M5 (F90) and prior to the F90 we had a 15 BMW M3 F80. Both purchased new and used as a 3rd vehicle since we have other vehicles. My wifes current vehicle is a 12 VW GTI Autobahn DSG 2-door (puchased new), with a APR stage 1 tune and APR DSG tune. She loves that car and I am thinking about keeping it.

The cars in the running for her: 24 Audi RS3, 24 VW Golf R, and 24 BMW M2. Currently the RS3 is in the lead, it has a proper dash, stereo sounds great compared to the others (very important to the wife) and we both like the looks of the vehicle over the other two.

The Golf R is considered but the lack of buttons and having to go through the center screen just to turn on the front defoster was a time consuming task. This is well documented online and others have stated once you own the vehicle for some time you will become use to finding the functions through the center screen. Stereo is just ok and I would have to spend roughly 5k - 8k for a system upgrade.

Then there is the M2, we think the looks of the vehicle on the outside is just ok, yes we are old pushing 60 and we miss the days of our E46 M3 and E39 5 series. As they say looks are subjective. Not a fan of the computer monitor looking dash but as my wife stated once you are sitting in the drivers seat it is an after thought. To us the exhaust sound is the worst of the 3 but we also did not like the sound of our F80 either. Again the sound of an exhaust is subjective.

Any input good or bad on the vehicles we are considering.

Each car has its positives and negatives. Here's my take.
I have a 7.5 GTI (Wife's car) with the DSG. Great little car, fun and very practical for it's size. I think it's the best car in the segment.
The Golf R is the next logical step if you like the GTI but want more performance in in this instance even more practicality as it is AWD.
The cons are that it adds up in price and the AWD is FWD based. I also don't think it's a very special vehicle or as exciting to drive as the BMW. The 2.0 needs a bit to get into boost. I test drove a manual and came away wishing it had more low end grunt. Just not boosted enough really.
The RS3 is fairly unique as in you don't see many on the road. I think the reason is both scarcity and well price. It really is overpriced for what it is. A FWD based AWD system that uses larger front tires to help rotate the rear. The interior leaves a lot to be desired and if we're being honest, it's fairly boring looking. The 5 cylinder motor is the car's saving grace. However for the price, I think the BMW is a no brainer, unless you need the practicality of the AWD.
It sounds to me like you want to purchase something that has a sense of occasion whenever you get behind the wheel. You wont get that in the VW nor the Audi. But you will with the G87.
It handles like its on rails, is faster than the other two once you get going (you wont be able to replicate the force of an AWD launch unless you're on a really good surface, the G87 has much more power than the other two and is pushing the rear wheels only).
Driving dynamics wise, the G87 is light years better than the FWD based cars. Sure the G87 has a muted exhaust, which a midpipe will fix. I have the Evolution Racewerks on mine and it's glorious. Everything else, the BMW is next level compared to the other two.
I would for sure get a major case of FOMO if I settled for a car.

[blinkme323]

If the M2 didn’t have that horrendous front end, then that might the answer, but alas…

The answer for me would be the Golf R, you get 8 (maybe even 9) tenths of the RS3 for 70% of the price. Depreciation or lack thereof in the R is also excellent, so not missing much there.

Any one of these cars is more “special” than a M240 or M340 so I wouldn’t even factor those in if that’s a consideration.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

An M340i doesn't feel special at all though...it's just a faster 3 series. At least the RS3 does feel like something more interesting (out of the box...not talking about price or mods, etc.). Base car vs base car. It used to be the same argument I had when selling my M340i for the RS5. Some people would say yeah but an M440i GC is almost as fast. That may be true, but it's the intangible of being an RS car (like an M or AMG) that you can't replace.

Intangible is just another way of saying "it makes me feel special". That's fine, feeling special is important at these price points. But it's one of those things where you're telling yourself it is more special because it is more money.

That said, the RS3 is more special because it has a transverse inline 5. It's probably the most hardcore FWD based AWD car on the market. I dunno that's a special in a good way thing, but the new one does look the beans. And it comes in some crazy bright ass awesome colors.

[slilley]

I'll throw in my opinion here, because I love threads like this. :-)

We currently have a MK7.5 GTI 6-speed that everyone in the family uses for daily-driving duty. My current plan is to replace this runner with a 2025 GTI once the new one with the improved interior is available. As you already know, the GTI is a great car -- and super-practical even when 4 of us want to run into the city to grab dinner. Great all-around visibility too! And most people ignore it, which I view as a good thing. Ours is totally stock, except for the change from stock 225/40-18 tires to slightly-taller 225/45-18 tires to take the edges off the crappy pothole-full roads in northeast PA. Personally I'd have a hard time justifying the added cost to move up to the Golf R, but I already have another fun car for track and autoX duty (718 Cayman GTS 4.0).

I'm sure the M2 and RS3 are much nicer cars, as they come with a huge price tag premium. Certainly nothing wrong with either of those choices. If the back seat access is important, then that tips the scales to favor the Audi.

Two other "cars" for your wife to consider: a Porsche Macan S, and a BMW X3 M40i. If I wasn't personally frugal, I'd replace the GTI with one of these! The base Macan uses the same engine as the GTI, which (imho) isn't enough power for the added weight of the SUV. So stick with S or GTS trims, which get the tasty 6-cyl engines. And this being an X5 forum, of course I have to include the X3 in the recommendations!

Good luck with your (her) decision, and let us know what you (she) decides!!

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Intangible is just another way of saying "it makes me feel special". That's fine, feeling special is important at these price points. But it's one of those things where you're telling yourself it is more special because it is more money.

That said, the RS3 is more special because it has a transverse inline 5. It's probably the most hardcore FWD based AWD car on the market. I dunno that's a special in a good way thing, but the new one does look the beans. And it comes in some crazy bright ass awesome colors.

It has nothing to do with price point (maybe for some it does). For me, I've had an S5 and an RS5, and an M340i and an M3. The RS5 and M3 ARE more special (not just to me). They drive different, they feel different, and are different. Not any different from the RS3 being special for its engine.

[murderspice]

My wife likes the Lexus RC Fs.

[ShocknAwe]

Are you guys opposed to CPO?

[baege]

some good thoughts in here, but since your wife is an enthusiast
it has to be the M2
it delivers better smiles per mile than the other 2 which is what matters the most at the end of the day for an enthusiast
cost wise the RS3 might depreciate slightly less, but I doubt it will be a significant difference, the smaller M cars hold their values pretty well
frugality is all about value and if the M2 offers more enjoyment at a slightly higher cost, then it's the better value car