Rising gas prices have me looking at used Tesla Model S

[roastbeef]

op, how far is your round trip daily commute? my daily commute is 52 miles. my electric smart car makes it with about 10% range to spare, but its mostly highway driving at 83 [limited] mph.
i bought the car for $5,600. it costs me about a dollar a day to charge. the car is surprisingly fun to drive, and not slow. this is the cheapest transportation you can get on four wheels. give one a try.

[Rk-d]

If you want a Tesla, don't bother with the financial arguments. They are specious at best. A cheap high efficiency ICE is hard to beat. You want something more high end-ish, that also saves money on gas. To be honest, if gas prices are causing a financial pinch, you probably need to be in something more affordable, like a Civic. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of in that.

The environmental arguments are also questionable. I suspect keeping your car instead of dumping another used car out into the world is better for the environment.

Teslas are crazy fast, which is cool. But that will get old. In the end, handling, feel, and character will win out. The crappy interior quality may start to grate on you. Food for thought.

If there is an extended warranty, get it. The idea of a used Tesla outside warranty give me the chills. I've heard that their aftermarket support is superficially good, but God help you if something major goes wrong or if you are in an accident.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

$6000 civic + 87 octane which is about 2.50 a gal here. i drive 80x5 = 400 miles a week. 32mpg on the highway average 80mph. so I use 12.5 gal x $2.50 = 32 bucks a week. $1500 a year. (daily driving a car that only takes 93, while fun, is going to eat through alot of money. My f30 335 at through over $ 2100/year by comparison).

it'll be a while before a $35000 tesla becomes a better financial decision for me than a used civic. But eventually i'd like to do it.

I do 800 miles a week commute to work, so double what you do. I know it's rough math for your numbers, but it works out to 7.8 cents/mile for your gas cost. I keep real accurate transportation costs for my cars. So my E90, which has been my primary DD for 12 years has cost me 11.9 cents per mile just for gas cost; my data is from 3 miles though 361,500 (last time I updated my spreadsheet). So that's about 4 cents per mile difference, but I've gotten to drive a BMW all those miles vs. a Civic

But gas cost is not the only cost involved. Total cost of ownership in cents-per-mile is the real metric. My E90 has cost me 31.5 cents per mile for 361,500 miles. I've run the numbers every way I can think of, and replacing my E90 with a new Tesla Model 3 doesn't pay its self back as compared to a reasonably-priced, adequately performing sedan, say an Accord Sport, the Tesla pays its self back at around 250,000 and that's assuming the battery doesn't need replacement.

[P1]

I wouldn’t mind a hybrid or electric vehicle, but it won’t be a Tesla.

[allinon72]

I don't know how performance vehicle ownership even exists in California due to the high cost of....everything. That said, a knee jerk reaction into a Tesla might be a mistake. It's important to cut through all the Apple-esque hype and realize what you're really getting, which in my opinion is a quick launcher with poor fit and finish and questionable interior design. And there will be significant battery maintenance costs above 100k.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by allinon72

I don't know how performance vehicle ownership even exists in California due to the high cost of....everything. That said, a knee jerk reaction into a Tesla might be a mistake. It's important to cut through all the Apple-esque hype and realize what you're really getting, which in my opinion is a quick launcher with poor fit and finish and questionable interior design. And there will be significant battery maintenance costs above 100k.

I've tried as best I can to research EV battery life. I'm not sure the data is in on battery life. There are a few EVs with 200,000 miles on the original battery. There is a GM factory worker that drives a Volt a whole bunch of miles to work everyday, and I think he was reaching 300,000 on the original battery.

Ford did a fleet study of Hybrid Escapes it has in San Francisco. The SAE report I read said they lost just 2 battery cells out of a fleet of 100 Escapes and something like 1M total miles.

My problem with my commute is I can't buy an EV for under $40K that gives me enough winter season range. I can't charge at work. I was going to buy a Bolt when they came out, but the winter range was iffy to give me the 175 mile minimum I need.

[BigHunk]

With model S you're getting free super charging,that if car is produced before January 2017.
Warranty on battery is 8 years unlimited mileage.

[RS DAVE]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

With gas now over $4 a gallon in Cali, I started snooping around Auto Trader for used Model S prices. I was shocked to see they are in the mid-$30k range for decent examples. My wife commutes over 50 miles each way, so the gas money saved would cover most of the payment, and you gotta love the carpool sticker.

I test drove one today with a great price and only 43k miles. I love how much instant torque there is. I’m not in love with the interior, but it was spacious. Hopefully the upcoming i4 will be as good looking as my F32. Unfortunately it won’t be here until 2021, while I might be hopping on the BEV bandwagon very soon.

$4 a gallon? try £6 a gallon in the uk. what's that around $8 a gallon, in your money? we get fucking raped here. as soon as the green lot get onto how much pollution it takes just to make the battery's for the Tesla, they will be a short lived thing of the past.....

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by RS DAVE

$4 a gallon? try £6 a gallon in the uk. what's that around $8 a gallon, in your money? we get fucking raped here. as soon as the green lot get onto how much pollution it takes just to make the battery's for the Tesla, they will be a short lived thing of the past.....

Yeah that is nuts! That's why everyone takes mass transit or drives small cars over there....here in Cali, no one takes mass transit and most people commute 30 miles or more for work. The rest of the country pays about a dollar less per gallon than the taxed and manipulated California market. More and more EV's are taking to the road these days and it seems the gas companies are feeling the effects and trying to squeeze as much money as they can while they can.... EV's are the future and aren't going away any time soon....the ranges are getting better and the major automakers are finally figuring out how to make good looking EV's that people want to drive. Gas sucking combustion engines will be a thing of the past long before the electrics I'm afraid

Thing is dealerships are frightened by EV's because they need much less service, which means less money for the dealerships service department... there are a few articles about this out there right now.

It's a myth made up by the oil industry that the tesla battery is worse than combustion engine for the environment...here is a rather boring video explaining it and some other interesting videos about the auto industry and the EV-olution

[MisterF80M3]

Why not lease a Prius C? 50MPG highway/city. Lease payments would be under $200.

"Lease the Prius C ONE for $177 per month for 36 months or Purchase with the sale price of $19,477."

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

Why not lease a Prius C? 50MPG highway/city. Lease payments would be under $200.

"Lease the Prius C ONE for $177 per month for 36 months or Purchase with the sale price of $19,477."

Although that is a great deal, I'm not looking to go from a F32 to a Prius.... my wife wouldn't be too happy about that either...we tried the cheap econo box car before and she hated it.(thank god)

Also, Leases restrict mileage and would make it not worth it for a 100 mile a day commuter like my wife is.

My whole idea is to get into a car I've always wanted like a CPO Model S in exchange for the f32 ... yes the payment might go up a bit, but the money you save in gas would more than make up for it...especially the longer you keep it.

It is all but a daydream at this point, but what would us car freaks be without them

Just a PITA selling a car and I'm sure to take a bit of a hit, so we'll see

Anybody looking for a sweet looking CPO 428i M-sport with 23K miles?

[scostu]

Shell premium ........$3.14/gallon

ETHANOL FREE 93....$3.59/gallon

Near Me.

[roastbeef]

it cost me $2.86 to charge my car from nearly 0% to 100% today after traveling 51 miles. if i drove the m3, at 17 mpg, it would have cost me $12.78 in gas using my local gas stations rate.
pretend there are 23 work days this month. thats roughly $65.78 in electricity versus $293.94 in gas. thats a $228.16 delta. i'm literally driving this car for free after all costs are considered. the delta grows as you compare costs like brakes, tires, and maintenance.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

it cost me $2.86 to charge my car from nearly 0% to 100% today after traveling 51 miles. if i drove the m3, at 17 mpg, it would have cost me $12.78 in gas using my local gas stations rate.
pretend there are 23 work days this month. thats roughly $65.78 in electricity versus $293.94 in gas. thats a $228.16 delta. i'm literally driving this car for free after all costs are considered. the delta grows as you compare costs like brakes, tires, and maintenance.

What is the delta between a gas Smart soccer ball vs. the EV Smart soccer ball version? Comparing a 2-seat econo box to an M3 is a bit misaligned don't you think?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Yeah that is nuts! That's why everyone takes mass transit or drives small cars over there....here in Cali, no one takes mass transit and most people commute 30 miles or more for work. The rest of the country pays about a dollar less per gallon than the taxed and manipulated California market. More and more EV's are taking to the road these days and it seems the gas companies are feeling the effects and trying to squeeze as much money as they can while they can.... EV's are the future and aren't going away any time soon....the ranges are getting better and the major automakers are finally figuring out how to make good looking EV's that people want to drive. Gas sucking combustion engines will be a thing of the past long before the electrics I'm afraid

Thing is dealerships are frightened by EV's because they need much less service, which means less money for the dealerships service department... there are a few articles about this out there right now.

It's a myth made up by the oil industry that the tesla battery is worse than combustion engine for the environment...here is a rather boring video explaining it and some other interesting videos about the auto industry and the EV-olution

The only reason EVs have any market share is due to world-wide government incentives that artificially make a market for them.

[Ceridan]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The only reason EVs have any market share is due to world-wide government incentives that artificially make a market for them.

That. Look at what happens when the government takes the incentives away, as seen when the new government in Ontario did just that last year:

Since the Ford government in July ended rebates of up to $14,000 and the final recipients were registered Sept. 10, sales of the Nissan Leaf have all but collapsed. In August, 695 units were sold. In November, just 10, according to figures supplied by Nissan Canada. In Quebec in November alone, 283 units were sold.

Source: https://canada.autonews.com/retail/n...incentive-axed

[P1]

I think you are trying to come up with an excuse to buy a Tesla, as per post #33.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Ceridan

That. Look at what happens when the government takes the incentives away, as seen when the new government in Ontario did just that last year:


Source: https://canada.autonews.com/retail/n...incentive-axed

Well that only makes sense if a car as ugly as the Leaf suddenly jumps $14,000 for no reason.


Meanwhile Tesla can't even keep up the demand for the Model 3 right now....with people waiting a year for their build.


Us gas loving motor heads(yes I still love my combustibles) better hope EV's become more and more popular to help drive gas prices further down....but then again the gas and oil companies will still find a way to manipulate it.

Don't let the sales of the Nissan Leaf fool you as far thinking the EV's won't work without rebates. VW is about to launch a whole new line up of electric cars with waiting list already forming.

https://www.vw.com/electric-concepts/section/id-buzz/

If this is a success(which so far seems to be) you can expect the other major automakers to be right behind them.

Don't worry though, we'll all be flying around in personal drones soon and the gas motor will still be around......hopefully with a lot less traffic to deal with

[The HACK]

I dunno. I was an early convert to EV due to gasoline prices.

Back in 2013, I had a "cheap" daily, a 2012 Hyundai Veloster Turbo. This is besides my "fun" weekend car, a 2006 MZ4 Coupe. A friend tipped me off about a bunch of racer/HPDE instructors in NorCal that got together and organized a "group buy" for 2013/2014 Fiat 500e's. For the state rebate as down payment, the monthly lease with a variety of incentives FCA was throwing at it, the cost to lease was as little as $100 a month. Some were even able to get it down to $88 after taxes.

I didn't need it. The Veloster Turbo and the MZ4 Coupe were both paid off. I had no car payment at the time, but I did have a relatively long commute (40 miles each way, 80 miles round trip) compared to average, during a time where gas prices were comparable to today ($4.00-ish for regular). I didn't want to take on another car payment, but realized that for the amount of driving I do, even if I was being judicious on the throttle, I'm still spending about $250 a month on gas in the relatively fuel economical Veloster Turbo (30mpg combined).

So I cashed in the Veloster Turbo for a Fiat 500e.

The first 2 weeks were harrowing, to say the least. Even the trip home was nerve wracking, since the dealership was 65 miles away, they didn't fully charge the battery after the test drive, and it read 80 miles range remaining. By the time I'm near the top of the small hill I have to crest over to get home, about 45 miles away, the little EV was telling me I have enough charge to go another 38 miles. I didn't have a level 2 charger at home at the time, as this decision was done rather quickly, so I couldn't even drive the car for nearly 2 days until it's fully charged using a 120V charger.

Eventually I got used to a routine and knew exactly how far I can go and where to plug in at work for some extra juice to make sure I get home. Fast forward 6 years, 3 more EVs later, I'm now contemplating trading in my wife's 335D for a Tesla Model S. At this juncture, I'm not even doing this because it's cheaper or more environmental or whatever. I'm doing it for two reasons.

1. They're fun as f**k to drive.

2. They're convenient as f**k as well.

Now, don't get me wrong. For fun to drive factor, NOTHING new, short of spending over $150K, is going to beat what I already have in my garage. Even if we get the Tesla, it is unlikely to be faster than either one of my "fun" cars, both in a straight line and in the twisties (we won't be getting the P100D nor the Model 3 Performance). For what it's worth, the 2x two-seaters in the garage is what I take to the track too, so I don't foresee either the Bolt EV (current) or the potential Model S/Model 3 replacement for the 335D is going to EVER see the track.

From a fun to drive perspective, you really can't beat the instantaneous torque delivery of an electric motor. All 3 EVs I've had so far, the Fiat 500e, the BMW i3, and the Chevy Bolt EV, all do that. You floor it from a dead stop, and feel the corner of your mouth curl into this wicked sh*t eating grin involuntarily. There's no turbo to spool up, there's no throttle plate delay, there's no lag as the torque converter struggles to lock up. It takes off. Like a bat out of hell. And believe you me, I'm used to one of the fastest responding inline 6 engines ever made, with 6 individual throttle bodies and a 3,200 lbs chassis, the MZ4 Coupe produces insanity inducing throttle response. But with a measly 265 ft*lbs of torque that doesn't plateau until 4,000 RPM, the throttle responds quick but the real power doesn't come on until high up in the stratosphere of the screaming engine's range. And while the 335D has nut cinching torque from down low, that turbo and torque converter lag is made doubly apparent when you demand power from a light to zero throttle with a rapid throttle tip-in.

Out of all my ICE possessions, the Corvette Grand Sport probably has the best of both worlds. 6.2 liters of naturally aspirated V8 with high compression and direct injection, torque similar to what the diesel delivers from near idle, and yes, it takes off like a bat out of hell (I can confirm this too). Yet with 465 ft*lbs of torque, most of them available from near throttle tip-in without waiting for a turbo to spool, any of the 3 EVs that I have had will likely take the Corvette in a drag race...If it's from the first 100 ft. Even the slowest and least powerful of the 3, the Fiat 500e, despite the 0-60mph of around 7 seconds, gets up and go from 0-30mph FAST (and it peters off after that).

And they're all shockingly nimble. The exception being the i3. While it was quick and nimble around town, the skinny tires it came with really rears its ugly head when you want to have some fun at higher speeds. Imagine my surprise when navigating a high speed sweeping interstate transition at speeds MAYBE significantly above the posted recommendation, and feel the subtle signs of DSC engaging to prevent the car from sliding sideways at speeds still significantly LOWER than what I'm used to navigating this particular transition ramp at. But man, any of these 3 EVs? I would love to take them auto crossing. They're not going to set FTD, but they'll be fun as f**k to drive for sure.

As long as going significantly above 70mph isn't your goal, any EV is as fun as some of the best ICE vehicles on the road today.

And they're convenient as f**k.

I haven't had to worry about getting gas, unless it's for a track day, for over 6 years now*. I haven't had to deal with or think about if I have enough gas to get to work, or enough gas to get home, or if I have cash in my wallet for gas, or ANY OF THAT. In the morning, I unplug the EV, go to work, plug in at work, drive home, plug in. DONE. It's just like my phone. I wake up, unplug the phone, plug in at work, unplug when I leave, plug in when I get home. Never run out of charge. So simple. Heck with the Bolt EV, I think I plug it in once a week just for the heck of it. With 240 mile range on a full charge, unless I'm really STUPID and/or like living on the edge, I don't even really think about it. And you know what I haven't done in 6 years**?

Visit a car dealership for routine maintenance.

**Caveat: The Fiat 500e had a half dozen recalls, and stranded me on the freeway during rush hour one time because the car's charging system failed at 65mph. You read that right. Cruising in the carpool lane all by myself while mere plebeians deal with bumper to bumper in rush hour traffic at maybe 20-25mph average, car all of a sudden shut down. I made it about 3 lanes over on a 6 lane highway when all forward propulsion stopped. Yeah. That was fun.

Fix it again, Tony.

But other than the Fiat, I had made zero oil change in 6 years on any of the EVs (duh). No brake pads nor rotors. No annual "inspections." Nothing. Changed wipers, changed 1 set of tires (the i3, for some weird reason, eats both the front AND rear tires. Fast. They last about 10,000-13,000 miles). No service whatsoever. The i3 had a voluntary recall, that was it. Everything drivetrain wise, works as advertised, and never a single issue (again, outside the Fiat). Are there things I can nit pick on? Hell yeah. But from a convenience stand point, they are wonderful in that there's zero maintenance, they go where you want to go for a short distance, and all three had a ton more room than what their small size and stature imply. Even the Fiat 500e, I managed to haul a couple of folding tables, a half dozen moving boxes, and 2 31" computer monitors in their boxes during a move.

So yeah. I still got my go-to in the garage for the kind a fun that leaves my fingers shaking at the end of the drive. The EVs can't match that. They don't give you the visceral pleasure that the subtle vibrations sent through the shifter when you execute the perfect heel-toe (cheating in the Corvette, BTW. Comes with RevMatch®) downshift into a decreasing radius hair pin in the mountains. Nor does it give you that tingling sensation when the exhaust pops and burbles or wails with a tinny soundtrack as you push the pedal through the metal onto the front straight. Those I can always get from the MZ4 Coupe and the Grand Sport. You can pry the keys to the MZ4 Coupe out of my dead hands.

But today's EVs are actually fun-tactic cars. Certainly, for every day use (and then some), they're just as fun and enjoyable as 99.95% of the plebeian garbage you'd fine everywhere, and frankly, even though "saving money" was the primary motivator for me getting an EV 6+ years ago, saving money NOW is no longer a consideration between an EV or an ICE for me, as my commute now involves a 20 some feet walk from my bedroom to my computer in the hallway.

But I'd still take an EV in a heart beat.

* Another caveat. I said no gas unless I'm going to the track, and that's absolute truth. When we go on long vacation trips, we take my wife's 335D. D as in DIESEL. I once made a 600 mile round trip in a single tank (well, chickened out and refilled with about 40 miles left, but the trip odo suggest we had plenty to make it home with diesel to spare). I don't see why the move from the diesel to a Tesla would impact our vacation trips though, as I suspect we'd likely rent an SUV for comfort if we have to go for more than a week and 200 miles plus, as NONE of the vehicles in the garage and driveway right now are friendly for such an extended trip. The diesel was a stretch as is, since the E90 platform is barely big enough for 2 adults, 1 very tall child, and enough luggage for a week plus various equipment for trips.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

yall cant be driving cars like this and be penny pinching. What do you think like yukon/tahoe drivers think. Cars cost the same and and more fuel thirsty. yet just driven by your average joe.

just offering some perspective.

[Red Bread]

The simple convenience and safety of my wife not ever going to a shitty gas station again is appealing. Plus the benefit of me not having to take her car to the gas station for her. Add in only needed infrequent brake jobs (with electronic brakes getting closer, just about no service requirements) and related OTA servicing.

To say that government incentives are the only appeal is supremely off the mark. TX has made it impossible to get the state incentive on a Tesla, yet the damn things are literally everywhere. Federal incentive on Teslas end soon and that will likely have minimal impact on their sales. The Model Y is going to further disrupt the German hold on SUV sales.

[Ceridan]

It's too early yet to know the full consequences of the loss of the rebate in Ontario across all brands, but the Leaf is the only one with good data so far. It was also the most popular EV in the country before the rebate ended in Ontario.

If incentives had no effect, surely the sales would be proportionate across the country, but they are not. 97% of all EV sales in Canada are in the 3 provinces that have incentives for them. They are the three biggest provinces sure, but they only account for 74% of the population. I think you could call that "statistically significant."

In a country as big as Canada, with such a sparsity of population, it is a tough sell with the technology currently available. Plug in hybrids are probably a much better solution, and I wish there were more of them to choose from. If I could buy a plug in hybrid with a straight six and an electric motor that was actually self driving that I could use to get to and from work autonomously and then drive for fun on the weekend... 340e perhaps? As soon as BMW makes it, I'll buy it.