the next Z4/Toyota project (Supra) will have a turbo six engine

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by persian54

I never understood the appeal of a soft top… my 986 was a soft top and it was loud as hell in there. I've been in E85 Z4s and same thing

both my E89 Z4s, E93 335, E93 M3, and SL550, being hardtops… are perfect. It's a coupe when you want it and can easily be turned into a convertible.

Soft top verts can't be coupes.. one main reason I dislike the new M6 vert. I considered one when the concepts were showing hardtops….

BMW had built a hard-top 6 Series F1X, but still decided to go with soft-top, don't know the reasons for it. Hard-top convertibles are better than soft-top, no doubt, but they are not true coupés.

Originally Posted by morfinx

Oh dear god please keep the hardtop! Soft tops are ugly

It will surely be hard-top, current Z4 is the best selling one (have to verify). However we don't know if the new Z4 will get an all new hard-top, the same one, as like E93 and F32.

The thing is quite a number do not want any hard-top Z4, but a real Z4 coupé, that is lighter, something like a Z4 M Coupé that could rival the Mercedes AMG-GT.

[DR Z4]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Yeah and people got tired of water dripping into the passenger compartment
---> hardtop.

This is not a problem that I can ever recall being reported on the e85 forums. I know that I have owned 2 e85s, and have never had such problems. In fact, I have never had that problem on any soft top I've owned. There are actually more seams on a hard top than a soft top, hence more places for leaks.

Water certainly isn't permeating through the canvas. I firmly believe the folding hardtop is the answer to a question no one asked; unless that question is: how can I reduce by 70% the already meagre storage capacity of my roadster, and increase curb weight?

[a.wang]

The most ridiculous thing I can think of:

BMW and Toyota joint make a V6 turbo engine for this Z, not inline, paving the way towards BMW making a comeback in Formula 1... one can dream.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Tommy_hf

The E89 did a good job getting SLK drivers to the BMW side.

LOL

Until folding hard tops are light and don't take up a ton of space, soft > hard ... No sex jokes

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

It has occurred to me that this concept looks a lot like the Zagato coupes I saw at the BMW Museum this past February... look at the way the hood extens downward into the headlight area. Together with the added body curves... it makes for a very sexy package.



We Visit the Special BMW Concept Cars Display at BMW Museum
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15532077


Attachment 1072131

Attachment 1072132

Very interesting.

You are right, very close indeed.

[Vector Pilot]

Regarding the new Z4-Z5-OR Z7 or whatever they want to call it. Priority one should be, make the new version, less nose heavy by revising the proportions by making it wider and perhaps shorter. Think Boxster. Personally I would welcome BMW offering a high performance hybrid. BTW: I'm on my second E89 and have no problems or issues with the retractable hardtop.

[Tommy_hf]

If they ditch the folding hardtop with a lot of the extra weight being all the way to the rear bumper (hinges, mechanism) and losing the weight in the boot, they can improve the weight distribution. There's more to it than just the 50:50 weight distribution, it's also about where the weight is located relative to the cars gyro point. All that weight (190 kgs in basic trim) reduces performance which can't be all compensated by torque and horses. Handling, weight transfers, braking, tyres, they all suffers from weight. That's why Porsche still makes the sharper handling tool and BMW seems to be the cruiser.
Think about it, Boxster, MR2, Miata (up until the new version MX5, choose the softtop option), Lotus, and alike, they are fun and good handling cars as they haven't gained fat. :-)

[hwelvaar]

A 6 cylinder turbo ? Hmm, where have we seen that before ?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Tommy_hf

All that weight (190 kgs in basic trim) reduces performance which can't be all compensated by torque and horses. Handling, weight transfers, braking, tyres, they all suffers from weight. That's why Porsche still makes the sharper handling tool and BMW seems to be the cruiser.
Think about it, Boxster, MR2, Miata (up until the new version MX5, choose the softtop option), Lotus, and alike, they are fun and good handling cars as they haven't gained fat. :-)

I dunno, N54 + DCT is a great power train, especially the mod friendliness.. the z4m was very nice for its time but it is outgunned these days.

For a daily driver, the hardtop is perfect (and I live in San Diego and absolutely max out top down driving) and no complaints about the handling

For the track.... E89 is a fail (overheat) without aftermarket help, and I hope BMW corrects with the next gen

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

A 6 cylinder turbo ? Hmm, where have we seen that before ?

Dude this is front page news !

[imserious]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

The Z4 will be replaced with the Z5, and the venture with Toyota will be the new Z7! The Z7 will be a hybrid with the new S55 M3/4 motor.

No wonder we are all confused.

There will be a Z1, and some point a 2 series derived Z3 and so on.

Don't forget the Z2GCM-Sport. It will also have an i6 turbo.

[Kiwi]

As long as the Z4 is a soft top and not the crazy folding hard top. This is the main reason I didn't upgrade my 2009 Z4 to new Z4

[theART]

I'll take next Z4 with I6 Turbo, NON convertible, 6 speed manual and AWD

Fingers crossed it will look better then next gen Audi TTRS

[BMW269]

For me the question is whether this new (Toyota/)BMW Z4 will be an AMG GT rival?

Will the Z4 be mid-front engine (as the coming new MX-5)? Will the Z4 have transaxle transmission (as the Corvette C7)? Will BMW build a Z4 M Coupé with S55 engine? Will the S55 engine have dry-sump?

If not BMW would be very "astonishingly stupid".

[vladberca]

When we'll see the concept car at an Auto Show?

[Manbnda]

I don't understand what Toyota brings to the party in the development of the Z4 specifically. I would somehow understand if it was the 3 series.
Z4 is a sexy car and Toyota is the nemesis of all things sexy.

A new RWD Z4 coupé would be my cup of tea. An expensive looking M235i sized BMW car.

[Eddien123]

BM needs to ditch that headlight touching the grille thing. They're forcing every car to do it and it looks so funky

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by Tommy_hf

If they ditch the folding hardtop with a lot of the extra weight being all the way to the rear bumper (hinges, mechanism) and losing the weight in the boot, they can improve the weight distribution. There's more to it than just the 50:50 weight distribution, it's also about where the weight is located relative to the cars gyro point. All that weight (190 kgs in basic trim) reduces performance which can't be all compensated by torque and horses. Handling, weight transfers, braking, tyres, they all suffers from weight. That's why Porsche still makes the sharper handling tool and BMW seems to be the cruiser.
Think about it, Boxster, MR2, Miata (up until the new version MX5, choose the softtop option), Lotus, and alike, they are fun and good handling cars as they haven't gained fat. :-)

The E89 *could be* more fun and better handling than the boxter/MR2/Miata for three main reasons that people tend to forget:

1) It is more comfortable (especially if you replace the oem tires with non-RFTs). Outside the track and while traveling less than 160km/h this is what defines fun and good handling to me. The vast majority of the time I feel happier when I am not uncomfortable (yes, I am looking at you, M sports suspension).
2) It is easier to get sideways (because the (easily tuned) N54 offers more torque from low rpm)
3) It is more fun while you are sideways (because you sit closer to the rear wheels and feel the slide much more directly/violently - like sitting in the back of a bus in a turn, as opposed to sitting in the middle)

Is it a sharper handling tool? No. But you can get a 1 series M coupe for less if that is what you really want. Even an imaginary lighter soft-top Z4 can't compete with that. But then you can also wave goodbye to cruising in comfort...

And why would you want a convertible roadster which isn't comfortable enough for cruising anyway? That being said, I am surprised someone has yet to modify a E89 by removing the roof and hydraulic systems completely.

BTW the Z4 doesn't actually offer 50:50 weight distribution... in fact, is probably the most rear-heavy small BMW that you can buy today. I believe the 28i is 47-53% for instance.

[zpost11]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

The E89 is more fun and better handling than the boxter/MR2/Miata for three main reasons that people tend to forget:

1) It is more comfortable (especially if you replace the oem tires with non-RFTs). Outside the track and while traveling less than 160km/h this is what defines fun and good handling to me. The vast majority of the time I feel happier when I am not uncomfortable (yes, I am looking at you, M sports suspension).
2) It is easier to get sideways (because the (easily tuned) N54 offers more torque from low rpm)
3) It is more fun while you are sideways (because you sit closer to the rear wheels and feel the slide much more directly/violently - like sitting in the back of a bus in a turn, as opposed to sitting in the middle)

Is it a sharper handling tool? No. But you can get a 1 series M coupe for less if that is what you really want. Even an imaginary lighter soft-top Z4 can't compete with that. But then you can also wave goodbye to cruising in comfort...

And why would you want a convertible roadster which isn't comfortable enough for cruising anyway? That being said, I am surprised someone has yet to modify a E89 by removing the roof and hydraulic systems completely.

BTW the Z4 doesn't actually offer 50:50 weight distribution... in fact, is probably the most rear-heavy small BMW that you can buy today. I believe the 28i is 47-53% for instance.

I can understand why you have to defend your choice of purchase (E89) but the statements above are laughable and I don't mean any disrespect.

First of all I own a fully loaded 2007 Z4. Drive the E89 extensively and also driven the 2013-2014 981 (current generation) Boxster many times and in different places.

I can tell you without any doubt that the current generation Boxster is in a whole different league than E89 Z4, SLK, MR2, Miata, etc.... There is simply no comparison between the current generation Boxster and the rest. The current generation Boxster is not simply gorgeous inside & out, its chassis and suspension setup is superior to the Z4 in every way from its stellar 10/10 handling, to its adaptive suspension precision, and its daily comfort as a driver. It surpasses the Z4 in every aspect mentioned above. On top, its a mid engine with excellent balance and weighs some 500 lbs LESS than the Z4. Therefore, your statement that the E89 is more fun and handles better than the Boxster is laughable, mind you this is not an opinion, this is fact. The current Z4 is beautiful in looks, but dynamics and drive it suffers from hardtop, 300-500 lbs extra weight compared to E85 and is really a nice cruiser with a sporting veneer to it. It is a hairdressers car.

2. Second statement you mentioned its easier to get "sideways", don't know what exactly you point to there but rent the Boxster for a week and than come back with this statement, I think not.

BMW Z4 simply does not have the harmonious equilibrium of the Boxster in comfort and sport modes. It might try to come close but not very close at all. And that's why you pay 10-12k more for a similarly optioned Z4/Boxster.

The only person who might agree with you, probably a single professional female or a mommy who simply just likes the look of the Z4 and that's it.

Listen, I am not biased toward BMW nor Porsche, but if you know what your talking about and if you drive both cars for some time, there is really no comparison accept for one, they are both German.

[Asbjorn]

My point was that the Z4 is more comfortable, easier to drift, and more fun while doing it. That is what I call fun, and I am well aware that most "enthusiasts" may think something else is more fun. It surely doesn't out-handle a Boxter in the traditional sense (ie slalom speeds etc).

Originally Posted by zpost11

[...] its daily comfort as a driver. It surpasses the Z4 in every aspect mentioned above.

So you are saying that a Boxter is more comfortable to drive than a Z4? Maybe you drove an E89 with 19" wheels, runflats and lowered adaptive M suspension? I am on non-sport standard suspension, 18" and non-runflats... hope this explains.

Originally Posted by zpost11

On top, its a mid engine with excellent balance and weighs some 500 lbs LESS than the Z4.

And this is another reason why the Z4 is easier to drift. The Boxter has wider and much better tires (265 vs 255), less weight (almost 500lbs) and much less torque (especially at low rpm), meaning that it is more difficult to get into a drift. It simply wants to grip instead of power-sliding. And please remember: More grip = less fun!

Originally Posted by zpost11

Therefore, your statement that the E89 is more fun and handles better than the Boxster is laughable, mind you this is not an opinion, this is fact.

Well, please understand that not everyone thinks more grip and a harder suspension is more fun. I of course agree it doesn't handle better in terms of cornering speeds etc.

Originally Posted by zpost11

2. Second statement you mentioned its easier to get "sideways", don't know what exactly you point to there but rent the Boxster for a week and than come back with this statement, I think not.

You simply can't get the same intense feeling when going sideways in a mid-engined car. The seating position is different. This is a trade-off between being able to feel what the front-end is doing vs the rear-end. In the Z4 you sit as far back as you can, and in that lies a hidden gem. But most Z4 owners will never know, because they don't turn DSC=off. In fact it scares most people the first time the rear end slides in sport+, because it is felt so violently in a roadster like the E89.

Originally Posted by zpost11

BMW Z4 simply does not have the harmonious equilibrium of the Boxster in comfort and sport modes. It might try to come close but not very close at all. And that's why you pay 10-12k more for a similarly optioned Z4/Boxster.

I don't think a Z4 is in anyway trying to come close to a Boxter. This, in the same way BMW is not trying to be Porsche.

[BMW269]

^ Toyota GT86 is fun.

[613Bimmer]

Originally Posted by Levi

^ Toyota GT86 is fun.

Lol

Just hope the new Z4 isn't AWD and a V6. That is all.