BMW Says Tesla's Electric Vehicle Dominance Is Over

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by FCX5

https://insideevs.com/news/580747/bm...nance-is-over/

If BMW plans on supplanting Tesla, they'd better change their design language.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by pz619

I can't stand Tesla (or Elon), but it certainly doesn't feel "over" to me. Outside of build quality, BMW is just now getting to where Tesla was 5 years ago.

Yes but Tesla is hasn't advanced outside of software updates and recent battery changes that are negligible to range or performance. In fact the model 3 for example costs considerably more today than it was 5 years ago for the same car except today's Model 3 vehicles are shipping without the following features that were standard five years ago;

• Passenger adjustable lumbar
• Homekit connectivity
• Radar sensors
• Functional USB ports (now only one in glove box connects to infotainment)
• Floor mats on RWD models
• NEMA 5-50 adapter for the Mobile Connector
• No more lowered suspension on the M3 Performance

Breaking this week is perhaps the egregious omission of all as of this week no Model 3 or Y will ship with the Mobile Connector so you get a car with no cable to charge. The cable is now $200 extra. Elon is making shareholders rich but he clearly doesn't understand how to run an automobile company as he's leaving the door wide open for legacy automakers. I realize that Tesla fanboys will counter with him selling every car he makes but it won't last and by the time he's forced to add back content to his vehicles it will be too late as legacy automakers simply build cars better and offer more features. There are plenty of Tesla owners that love their cars but there are also plenty of Tesla owners that will be buying their next EV from a legacy automaker as the Tesla experience is simply not for everyone as the infotainment interface and phone/audio connectivity is 15-20 years dated, they still can't get basic stuff like automatic wipers working right, their service is unacceptably poor, their heat pumps don't work well below freezing cold, and the build quality while improved is still horrible for vehicles in the price range.

[lake_eleven]

Originally Posted by kring

BMW will no doubt keep ticking upward on EVs; they have good brand loyalty - but please don't be fooled, BMW is 5 years behind Tesla and Tesla will crush them in EV sales for at least the next 3 years...and actually I'm not sure BMW (or others ICE'ers) will ever catch Tesla, as they simply don't have the business capability to change, adapt at the speed Tesla can. Tesla will be the worlds largest auto maker in 3 years time, no doubt in my mind.

Tesla is end-2-end from solar energy, battery storage, mining, transportation, Insurance, and doing it at scale, with OTA software updates and this year (or 2023 at latest) will launch full self-driving in US and start to expand to other countries.. no one else will have that for years; that is 10x safer than any human behind the wheel. The way Tesla operates with no yearly models, rapid development, ability to swap out short-supply parts in just a few weeks to adapt to supply/demand/cost, over the air updates including fixed, enhancements, recalls - none of this is achievable by ICE'ers for at least 5 more years, and that's assuming massive costly internal reorganization and core business philosophy changes need to be funded and occur. Including elimination of the costly dealership scam network. Tesla takes profit and controls the cost at EVERY SINGLE aspect of transportation and is doing it without unionization. no way any ICE'er even opperates at half that reach... BMW is locked into multiple vendors and can't change and they pay crazy prices for outsourced parts... Tesla doesn't have that... Margin's are a huge gap in the sense Tesla opperates somewhere in the 40% range while most ICE'rs are single-digit... Tesla is swimming is excess cash by the billions. Tesla's prices are high because of demand and investment such as building giga factories and R&D spending that exponentially higher than other manufacturers and they don't spend any money on marketing or have debt.

I'm not planning on getting a Tesla or EV anytime soon, I am thrilled with my M550 - but I'm not blinded thinking BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Toyota are anywhere near close to touching Tesla. If you don't know much about Tesla it's understandable why people may write them off, laugh at a youtube video of a panel gap... but those that know Tesla are keenly aware they are just getting started and their trajectory is 10 fold any ICE manufacturer. Keep in mind too Tesla's success is occurring during the most hostile short-seller disinformation war and massive politician bribery & corruption led by unions and dealer mafia; this war is far greater than has ever been conducted in the history of the world on any company ever.

Take note that not only did Tesla in 10 years go from Idea to largest EV maker on the planet... in the next 10 years they will put half of them out of business because they simply can't adapt and keep pace, after a few years of hemorrhaging someone will pull the plug on those dying brands.

https://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...1&d=1650404732

"BMW EV sales jumped 149% in Q1 2022, 35,289 units sold worldwide – i3, i5, i7, iX1 to be produced this year"

Its not a linear growth in EV sales anymore for BMW and other manufacturers. Tesla's body design still remains fresh even today, it does not look dated like a 5 year old BMW design. Once new EVs come in, it will start looking dated, when Tesla has to start releasing facelifts.
Elon's new age personality is by design, he ensures he comes across connecting with millenials+, boosting his brand image and the fan following.

BMW is so scared to even release Traffic Light Recognition feature in US, when Tesla is releasing features that are even against the traffic rules. Mindset of traditional manufacturers needs to change top down.

[kring]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

today's Model 3 vehicles are shipping without the following features that were standard five years ago;

• Passenger adjustable lumbar
• Homekit connectivity
• Radar sensors
• Functional USB ports (now only one in glove box connects to infotainment)
• Floor mats on RWD models
• NEMA 5-50 adapter for the Mobile Connector
• No more lowered suspension on the M3 Performance

Breaking this week is perhaps the egregious omission of all as of this week no Model 3 or Y will ship with the Mobile Connector so you get a car with no cable to charge.

Are you aware that nearly all of Tesla's customer couldn't care one bit about any of those features... that's why they were cut as standard; that wasn't out of Tesla being "cheap" it was a conscious decision to remove wasted cost that real customers didn't want to pay as standard included cost.

the charger makes sense, same direction apple went - why buy it if you already have it... many repeat Tesla customers out there don't need a new cable.

Radar was removed out of the need to solve AI self-driving by it being visual... a human only has eye's... where's your radar and lidar unit hiding in your body? The team came to the realization you don't need added hardware that doesn't actually yield better results... the goal was 10X safer driving... it can be achieved via cameras and software only, without radar/lidar... success at less cost, and a simpler design.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by ..Rush..

Tired of Tesla.
Tesla Drivers are the most arrogant from my experience.
By far, I see more male Tesla Drivers speeding at traffic lights, and being cut off.

Idk I always see Tesla people driving slow or normal speeds. They are overwhelmingly non-car enthusiasts. I used to work there and all my clients were techie types.

But yes, an insufferable group they are. The only people I dislike more are pickup truck bros and all the ratchet Charger/Challenger drivers.

[Theruleslawyer]

Legacy automakers in general are going to eat Tesla's lunch soon. They are catching up on the EV side of things much quicker than Tesla is catching up on basic car manufacturing. I'd put money on VAG more than BMW at this point, but there will be plenty of market to go around.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by kring

Are you aware that nearly all of Tesla's customer couldn't care one bit about any of those features... that's why they were cut as standard; that wasn't out of Tesla being "cheap" it was a conscious decision to remove wasted cost that real customers didn't want to pay as standard included cost.

the charger makes sense, same direction apple went - why buy it if you already have it... many repeat Tesla customers out there don't need a new cable.

Radar was removed out of the need to solve AI self-driving by it being visual... a human only has eye's... where's your radar and lidar unit hiding in your body? The team came to the realization you don't need added hardware that doesn't actually yield better results... the goal was 10X safer driving... it can be achieved via cameras and software only, without radar/lidar... success at less cost, and a simpler design.

No I'm not aware since a lot of posters on their forums (which I am a member) complain about the removed features constantly. Everyone knows Autopilot has been less reliable without the sensors. Are you a paid shill or oblivious to reality?

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by kring

Are you aware that nearly all of Tesla's customer couldn't care one bit about any of those features... that's why they were cut as standard; that wasn't out of Tesla being "cheap" it was a conscious decision to remove wasted cost that real customers didn't want to pay as standard included cost.

the charger makes sense, same direction apple went - why buy it if you already have it... many repeat Tesla customers out there don't need a new cable.

Radar was removed out of the need to solve AI self-driving by it being visual... a human only has eye's... where's your radar and lidar unit hiding in your body? The team came to the realization you don't need added hardware that doesn't actually yield better results... the goal was 10X safer driving... it can be achieved via cameras and software only, without radar/lidar... success at less cost, and a simpler design.

this is not true. are you paid to spread this non sense?

no cam can replace radar in adverse foggy weather. Everybody that has anything to do with terrain following and avoidance knows this.

The ref to our human sensors is irrelevant. Tesla is simply cutting cost not to invest in radar development. The integrated systems of cams and radar is superior to cams only.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

No I'm not aware since a lot of posters on their forums (which I am a member) complain about the removed features constantly. Everyone knows Autopilot has been less reliable without the sensors. Are you a paid shill or oblivious to reality?

Eh, the majority on this forum (me included) would say they hate the huge BMW grills but obviously the masses are eating it up.

Forum folks don't necessarily reflect the majority.

You may be right, I don't know. Devil's advocate and all that. I wouldn't use forum conversations to predict the future of a company, that's all.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

Eh, the majority on this forum (me included) would say they hate the huge BMW grills but obviously the masses are eating it up.

Forum folks don't necessarily reflect the majority.

You may be right, I don't know. Devil's advocate and all that. I wouldn't use forum conversations to predict the future of a company, that's all.

The removal of the mobile chargers has blown up for sure.

Many Tesla owners on Twitter expressed frustration with the charging shake-up. Some claimed the removal hurts EV adoption and adds to range anxiety and dependency on network charging stations. Others proposed an opt-out option (and discount) for those who don’t need or want the slow home charger included.

https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/t...ing-connector/

[bucketfoot]

Tesla may well get surpassed at some point, but it most definitely will not be by BMW.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by ..Rush..

Tired of Tesla.
Tesla Drivers are the most arrogant from my experience.
By far, I see more male Tesla Drivers speeding at traffic lights, and being cut off.

That's so funny... I see them as the opposite. I think they are all former Prius drivers poking along and holding up traffic!

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by BMW and me

Car needs buttons not a touch screen to operate easy.

Forget touchscreens, I don't even like buttons... I still have to look and see if that's fan up or down. I long for the days of big dials and levers!

Now you kids get off my lawn!!!

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

Tesla may well get surpassed at some point, but it most definitely will not be by BMW.

Tesla will be competing with BMW on price points. The iX I drove is better than a Model X in terms of comfort, interior space and driving experience. We looked closely at both. The iX is also cheaper. The front is polarizing. But that is easier to fix than the driving experience for Tesla.

At the luxury level it looks like the 3 German manufacturers will come in strong. The main issue is going to be production. The same issue Ford has with the Mach e. Many people would buy a Mach E over a Model Y, if it were available…

FWIW, I am not anti Tesla. We own a Tesla. I think it's great. But people who are not brand loyal will have a lot of better options…