Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It could be all over for EV's, plunging sales with poor range and 'charger rage' who on earth wants to go through this crap.

The challenges the US faces with EV uptake are spot on with the Canadian market just scaled up. Great video., thanks for posting.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

This is one of the best Video's on the demand and the economics of adopting the EV. This is why the Democrats must force the adoption of EV's by removing the ICE from consideration.

This ^.

Again, reading on an EV car forum this morning, I find it amazing the tolerance of people to just accept that travel past 200 miles requires patience and acceptance of charging wait times. Now I've learned there is such a thing as charge anxiety, which is the phenomenon of getting to a charging center only to find (a) chargers not working, (b) all chargers occupied, or (c) chargers not charging at the full rate of the DC fast charge protocol, meaning range recovery is quite slow. Several posts on that subject have evolved into a sort of badge of honor that the poster tolerated the inconvenience of long-distance EV travel.

In the perspective of ICE recharging in 5 minutes and 100% range recovery (with most cars that means 400+ miles), I fully lack understanding of why people put up with EV. Sure, most of the current adopters "charge at home while they sleep". But that doesn't work on trips past 200 - 300 miles depending on ambient temperatures, nor for people who do not have private Level 2 charging (at home).

I guess it is a new form of sadomasochism. Enviromental sadomasochism perhaps?

Weird.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This ^.

Again, reading on an EV car forum this morning, I find it amazing the tolerance of people to just accept that travel past 200 miles requires patience and acceptance of charging wait times. Now I've learned there is such a thing as charge anxiety, which is the phenomenon of getting to a charging center only to find (a) chargers not working, (b) all chargers occupied, or (c) chargers not charging at the full rate of the DC fast charge protocol, meaning range recovery is quite slow. Several posts on that subject have evolved into a sort of badge of honor that the poster tolerated the inconvenience of long-distance EV travel.

In the perspective of ICE recharging in 5 minutes and 100% range recovery (with most cars that means 400+ miles), I fully lack understanding of why people put up with EV. Sure, most of the current adopters "charge at home while they sleep". But that doesn't work on trips past 200 - 300 miles depending on ambient temperatures, nor for people who do not have private Level 2 charging (at home).

I guess it is a new form of sadomasochism. Enviromental sadomasochism perhaps?

Weird.

I suspect they pat themselves on the back for their sacrifice of convenience because they're doing their part to save the planet.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I suspect they pat themselves on the back for their sacrifice of convenience because they're doing their part to save the planet.

I think the term we are looking for is "Narcissist"...

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think the term we are looking for is "Narcissist"...

Not only are you more patient than me you're more polite.

[sb335xi]

We have a Rivian R1T - and love it. It's built here (in IL), is a beast off road (feels like cheating, really), has more power than you'd ever need, and does all the things a vehide should do -- very well. The engineering that went into it is substantial, and it shows.

Charging at home (for the amount we drive it), uses less energy than the electric dryer that occupied the circuit previously. We've gone on road trips, and dealt with the public chargers - and don't disagree that it can be a bit of a pain at times --- but it's expected. There will be growing pains.. if they're too much for you, cool, don't get an EV yet.

It's not 'fun' to drive on the street, really.. but for us, it's just an appliance. Need to do the things around town? turn it on and go.. when there's time, though - I'll be polluting away in my gas-guzzler taxed, obnoxious, 10-second family sedan.

Bottom line, it's just another new technology..

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by sb335xi

We have a Rivian R1T - and love it. It's built here (in IL), is a beast off road (feels like cheating, really), has more power than you'd ever need, and does all the things a vehide should do -- very well. The engineering that went into it is substantial, and it shows.

Charging at home (for the amount we drive it), uses less energy than the electric dryer that occupied the circuit previously. We've gone on road trips, and dealt with the public chargers - and don't disagree that it can be a bit of a pain at times --- but it's expected. There will be growing pains.. if they're too much for you, cool, don't get an EV yet.

It's not 'fun' to drive on the street, really.. but for us, it's just an appliance. Need to do the things around town? turn it on and go.. when there's time, though - I'll be polluting away in my gas-guzzler taxed, obnoxious, 10-second family sedan.

Bottom line, it's just another new technology... That's being forced on the public whether they like it or not.

FTFY

[Car-Addicted]

Owning the Future: Electric Vehicles May Cede U.S. Power to China Which Controls 70% of the World’s Lithium
15 Sep 2023
China also controls key components of the EV battery supply chain.

Through the mineral refining process necessary to build EV batteries, China controls nearly 70 percent of the world’s lithium, 95 percent of manganese, 73 percent of cobalt, 70 percent of graphite, and 63 percent of nickel.

Compare China’s control over mineral refining to the U.S., which has barely any domestic capacity to process minerals today despite Biden’s insistence that the American economy and consumers are prepared for EVs.

China also controls the parts needed to go into an EV battery.

About 77 percent of cathodes are made in China, along with 74 percent of separators, 82 percent of electrolytes, 92 percent of anodes, 73 percent of NMC cathodes, and 99 percent of LFP cathodes.

The U.S., on the other hand, makes just one percent of the world’s NMC cathodes that are used for EV batteries.

We can't be energy independent or lithium independent but we are China dependent.

[Car-Addicted]

Electric regulators and utilities across America are sounding the alarm on grid reliability

The newest warning comes from the North American Electric Reliability Corporation’s (NERC) biennial "Reliability Risk Priorities Report." For the first time, energy policy is listed as one of five key risk profiles, joining grid transformation, security risks, extreme events, and critical infrastructure interdependencies. This is significant because it singles out bad energy policy as a major threat to the grid.

The rate of traditional power sources exiting the grid isn’t keeping up with our deployment of cleaner energy, putting us on a trajectory to "a very catastrophic situation in terms of reliability," as Commissioner Mark Christie put it. These threats aren’t new but at least FERC now appears prepared to act.

Renewable subsidies and mandates are further distorting electricity markets to the detriment of reliable baseload power. As reliable power sources are retired prematurely, all of the green energy that Democrats promised isn’t showing up. At the same time, the push to electrify everything from our cars to our stoves puts further pressure on demand.

Take New York, for example. As of 2021, solar and wind supplied 1% and 3.6% of the state’s power, yet it’s mandated to have 70% renewable electricity by 2030.

As Chairman Phillips honorably put it: reliability "is and must be, always, job No. 1."

Here is hopping that the right people get blamed for the pending power outages and brown outs.

[gonzo]

^
Then blame anyone but themselves.
It's in the playbook and coming.

Meanwhile the incompetence driven by greed rolls on...

[JGard]

So this is the anti-EV thread, I guess? I had a Model 3 for four years, then moved to a Rivian R1T. My wife now has a Volvo XC40 Recharge. All the negative comments about ownership of EVs always comes from folks who don't actually own one, which is comical, but annoying.

Five years in to EV ownership, the experience is just SO much better, and I'll never go back to gas again. Having a level 2 charger in my house helps, of course. Those who can't charge at home will certainly have a different experience, but I love it.

Currently looking to replace the Rivian with an ix, though. Rivian's service and software are still just so unfinished and I'm tired of waiting for features that should have been available or working in the beginning to show up, even after a year+.

anyway, people need to stop shitting on EVs if they've never owned one. If you've owned one and hated it, then I respect your opinion, that's fine. If you haven't, stop projecting.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by JGard

So this is the anti-EV thread, I guess? I had a Model 3 for four years, then moved to a Rivian R1T. My wife now has a Volvo XC40 Recharge. All the negative comments about ownership of EVs always comes from folks who don't actually own one, which is comical, but annoying.

Five years in to EV ownership, the experience is just SO much better, and I'll never go back to gas again. Having a level 2 charger in my house helps, of course. Those who can't charge at home will certainly have a different experience, but I love it.

Currently looking to replace the Rivian with an ix, though. Rivian's service and software are still just so unfinished and I'm tired of waiting for features that should have been available or working in the beginning to show up, even after a year+.

anyway, people need to stop shitting on EVs if they've never owned one. If you've owned one and hated it, then I respect your opinion, that's fine. If you haven't, stop projecting.

We are on the same page friend.

[lakefront]

Originally Posted by JGard

So this is the anti-EV thread, I guess? I had a Model 3 for four years, then moved to a Rivian R1T. My wife now has a Volvo XC40 Recharge. All the negative comments about ownership of EVs always comes from folks who don't actually own one, which is comical, but annoying.

Five years in to EV ownership, the experience is just SO much better, and I'll never go back to gas again. Having a level 2 charger in my house helps, of course. Those who can't charge at home will certainly have a different experience, but I love it.

Currently looking to replace the Rivian with an ix, though. Rivian's service and software are still just so unfinished and I'm tired of waiting for features that should have been available or working in the beginning to show up, even after a year+.

anyway, people need to stop shitting on EVs if they've never owned one. If you've owned one and hated it, then I respect your opinion, that's fine. If you haven't, stop projecting.

Agree that if you WANT to buy an EV, you should certainly be able to. Lots of folks in your position want nothing to do with ICE anymore. The problem (that gets lost in a lot of EV bashing) is that by 2035 the folks that WANT to buy an ICE car won't be able to. Because of idiot politicians that know nothing (or don't care) about the effects this draconian BS is causing. That's the real message that should be received here, not that EVs are trash or dangerous, etc. How much of our freedom are we willing to give up?

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by JGard

people need to stop shitting on EVs if they've never owned one. If you've owned one and hated it, then I respect your opinion, that's fine. If you haven't, stop projecting.

I never did any large scale damaging Lithium mining or enslaved children in dangerous mining because "I respect" the environment and my fellow human beings. It is you that is "projecting" your lack of understanding of the dynamics of EV construction use and recycling.
The sheep don't know
The Wolves don't want to know.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by lakefront

Agree that if you WANT to buy an EV, you should certainly be able to. Lots of folks in your position want nothing to do with ICE anymore. The problem (that gets lost in a lot of EV bashing) is that by 2035 the folks that WANT to buy an ICE car won't be able to. Because of idiot politicians that know nothing (or don't care) about the effects this draconian BS is causing. That's the real message that should be received here, not that EVs are trash or dangerous, etc. How much of our freedom are we willing to give up?

Much of that will likely get walked back depending on how all of this plays out.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Much of that will likely get walked back depending on how all of this plays out.

Maybe, but in the mean time manufactures are being forced to tool up to produce them. There is damage being done to the economy because of these mandates and the reality is that EV's may make perfect sense for a segment of society, I suspect those people have already made the switch, but to force everyone else to adapt is ridiculous.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by JGard

So this is the anti-EV thread, I guess? I had a Model 3 for four years, then moved to a Rivian R1T. My wife now has a Volvo XC40 Recharge. All the negative comments about ownership of EVs always comes from folks who don't actually own one, which is comical, but annoying.

Five years in to EV ownership, the experience is just SO much better, and I'll never go back to gas again. Having a level 2 charger in my house helps, of course. Those who can't charge at home will certainly have a different experience, but I love it.

Currently looking to replace the Rivian with an ix, though. Rivian's service and software are still just so unfinished and I'm tired of waiting for features that should have been available or working in the beginning to show up, even after a year+.

anyway, people need to stop shitting on EVs if they've never owned one. If you've owned one and hated it, then I respect your opinion, that's fine. If you haven't, stop projecting.

I wouldn't call it anti-ev, I'd say that it's anti stupidity. Governments and activists are pushing change without putting in place infrastructure to support the change, they are telling us that its for the environment despite what is clearly swapping one problem, GHG, for another, that being the damage to the environment by mining. I'm not anti-ev. If it works for you great, I'm not suggesting you should be forced to drive an ICE either though if you'd rather drive an EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JGard

So this is the anti-EV thread, I guess? I had a Model 3 for four years, then moved to a Rivian R1T. My wife now has a Volvo XC40 Recharge. All the negative comments about ownership of EVs always comes from folks who don't actually own one, which is comical, but annoying.

Five years in to EV ownership, the experience is just SO much better, and I'll never go back to gas again. Having a level 2 charger in my house helps, of course. Those who can't charge at home will certainly have a different experience, but I love it.

Currently looking to replace the Rivian with an ix, though. Rivian's service and software are still just so unfinished and I'm tired of waiting for features that should have been available or working in the beginning to show up, even after a year+.

anyway, people need to stop shitting on EVs if they've never owned one. If you've owned one and hated it, then I respect your opinion, that's fine. If you haven't, stop projecting.

Why do I need to own an EV before I can comment on them? Why is it comical? Some buyers put great thought into their purchases; I do. I know I would not like road tripping an EV and having to wait longer than 5 minutes for it to recharge (under ideal conditions and situations) and only get 80% of the projected EPA range. If other people have that tolerance, great, but I don't because I know any ICE recharges in 5 minutes to 100% range.

I see no EV trade off that is worth that inconvenience. Create an EV with 400+ miles of range that can recharge in 5 minutes without an eventual 30% to 50% battery degradation or 20% to 35% winter range loss, then I'll consider one. ICE has set that expectation for me. EV needs to match that.

I've driven a few EV and been in several more. Nice cars, expensive, but range and refueling limitations are not worth converting. Sorry. Not comical, just facts.

Build a serial hybrid EV in a sports sedan format and an ORV (Bronco) format, and a midsized pickup format, and I'll go buy one of each next week.

[M5Rick]

Another vid to easily explain, approximately 500,000 pounds of rock and soil is dug to make EACH Tesla,@9:23 so are the buyers singing ''la la I hear nothing, only what I want to hear' . Worth thinking about that for a while.

[Tejas1836]

Elephant in the Tesla room with the gigacast underbodies.

[gonzo]

Speaking of worthless and greedy liars.

The UN Admits Its 'Sustainable Development Goals' Have Made Things Worse.




But, but, but, but...

[Car-Addicted]

OOPS!

The Environmental Impact of Battery Production
The additional environmental cost of transporting these batteries results in a higher carbon footprint than ICE vehicles. A 2021 study comparing EV and ICE emissions found that 46% of EV carbon emissions come from the production process while for an ICE vehicle, they ‘only’ account for 26%. Almost 4 tonnes of CO2 are released during the production process of a single electric car and, in order to break even, the vehicle must be used for at least 8 years to offset the initial emissions by 0.5 tonnes of prevented emissions annually.

Furthermore, producing one tonne of lithium (enough for ~100 car batteries) requires approximately 2 million tonnes of water, which makes battery production an extremely water-intensive practice.

Nickel and cobalt have similar reputations. Satellite analysis in Cuba has shown a devoid of life in over 570 hectares of land and contamination of over 10 kilometres of coastline where nickel and cobalt mines are present. The Philippines had to shut down 23 mines, many producing nickel and cobalt, because of the environmental degradation that it caused.

https://earth.org/environmental-impa...ry-production/