F1 2021: Turkish GP - Istanbul (Oct 10)

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I'm at a bit of a loss! Binotto isn't team principle material and Maurizio Arrivabene had a bit too mush a$$hole in him.

The best leaders I've known CARE, have huge personality & PRIDE.

Call me crazy but Ferrari needs to go outside the family and find their next leader at Porsche!!!!

Lol I agree, but ferrari will never go outside the family.

They have the resources to be constructor champions again, but keep doing stupid stuff that prevents them from achieving that goal.


Good team principle material is hard to find imo, Toto imo is the best team principle you can ask for, Seidl is very very good for Mclaren as well, Horner knows what it takes to win but imo marko is way too toxic and the overall toxic nature of redbull seems to pull them down (can't just focus on max, I know they want him to win or else risk loosing him due to the performance clause, but it isn't a one man show). Otherwise the other team principles are ok but not spectacular.

[3798j]

Ferrari needs a James Vowles..."With two different Formula One teams Vowles has won 8 Constructors' Championships and over 100 Grands Prix. Vowles was responsible for the Brawn GP race strategy, which was critical to the team's championship-winning 2009 campaign. After working with the championship-winning Brawn GP, Vowles continues as chief strategist with the team after the sale to Mercedes in 2010."

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Ferrari needs a James Vowles..."With two different Formula One teams Vowles has won 8 Constructors' Championships and over 100 Grands Prix. Vowles was responsible for the Brawn GP race strategy, which was critical to the team's championship-winning 2009 campaign. After working with the championship-winning Brawn GP, Vowles continues as chief strategist with the team after the sale to Mercedes in 2010."

I agree, but that's not the only thing Ferrari needs. Their race engineers kind of suck too (might be the other engineers who report data to them are slow, or maybe the chain of command for problem solving sucks), when a driver asks a question they'll be like "ok checking" and never get back to them. Ferrari turned from the prancing horse into the prancing donkey and it's really sad to see.


On another note I really doubt James would move, most people once they join Mercedes don't leave because the work environment and culture is really good. Plus guys like Janes and shov have been there since day 1, and even before Mercedes bought Braun.

[3798j]

Don't think Vowles would have a reason to move ...just pointing out how having someone with his skills (consistent, excellent decision making) is making MB able to vie for championships.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Don't think Vowles would have a reason to move ...just pointing out how having someone with his skills (consistent, excellent decision making) is making MB able to vie for championships.

It's probably an unenviable job like if you get the call right you're a hero if you get it wrong then you're the villian, and that's not even factoring in the amount of pressure these strategy guys must face.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by F87source

Lol I agree, but ferrari will never go outside the family.

They have the resources to be constructor champions again, but keep doing stupid stuff that prevents them from achieving that goal.


Good team principle material is hard to find imo, Toto imo is the best team principle you can ask for, Seidl is very very good for Mclaren as well, Horner knows what it takes to win but imo marko is way too toxic and the overall toxic nature of redbull seems to pull them down (can't just focus on max, I know they want him to win or else risk loosing him due to the performance clause, but it isn't a one man show). Otherwise the other team principles are ok but not spectacular.

Brawn built a great team, the brackley boys (still in place today at Merc), and Schumacher brought the team to the next level. Toto took over with Paddy Lowe, Nikki Lauda, who was arguably the most influential individual in paddock,
a PU development team Brawn had set up two years prior, and an already signed multi WDC driver (Hamilton).

Such facts shouldn’t get in the way of historical perspective, since the revolutionary visionary team builder rarely gets credit for accomplishments.

Toto has done a terrific job maintaining the momentum and staying out of the way (undervalued skill). He is similar to Zach Brown at Mclaren.

Marko is Horner’s bulldog and occasionally he bites.

Fill Bottas or James V with truth serum and ask them about the “non toxic” merc environment. It may surprise you.

I agree that Seidal is good and Jost Capito looks promising. Ferrari needs that Brawn/Todt combo to achieve success with the media environment in Italy.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by F87source

Lol, Binotto may not be team principle material, but he was apparantly a really good technical director from the MSC days.

Sidepod king

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Brawn built a great team, the brackley boys (still in place today at Merc), and Schumacher brought the team to the next level. Toto took over with Paddy Lowe, Nikki Lauda, who was arguably the most influential individual in paddock,
a PU development team Brawn had set up two years prior, and an already signed multi WDC driver (Hamilton).

Such facts shouldn’t get in the way of historical perspective, since the revolutionary visionary team builder rarely gets credit for accomplishments.

Toto has done a terrific job maintaining the momentum and staying out of the way (undervalued skill). He is similar to Zach Brown at Mclaren.

Marko is Horner’s bulldog and occasionally he bites.

Fill Bottas or James V with truth serum and ask them about the “non toxic” merc environment. It may

I agree that Seidal is good and Jost Capito looks promising. Ferrari needs that Brawn/Todt combo to achieve success with the media environment in Italy.

Yup the staying out of the way part is key.


Yeah I agree, mercedes might not be totally toxicity free because Bottas does indeed get the short end of the stick, still miles better than the redbull second driver. But it is leaps and bounds better compared to every other team - maybe Mclaren can rival it.


IDK Marko is way too agressive for me.

[yco]

i believe the McLaren today is more likely thanks to Andre Seidl.. Zak Brown's leadership maybe it is but doesnt seem distinctive or inspiring.. can be observed from how Zak talks with their drivers.. in some personal level.. but Andre Seidl is undervalued name who contributed McLaren a lot recently.. even pushing things forwards putting Merc' engines in McLaren cars was one of the simplest but very right moves for example..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

No, I generally don't really care about a particular team or driver. In terms of team I love observing the developments hence why Mercedes really intrigues me with their amazing engineering philosophy and developments. Even Ferrari cheating with their oil burning was intriguing to me. For drivers, that's not fully the truth, while I don't support one driver like alot of f1 fans I support a whole bunch of drivers equally for various reasons: Seb, George, Mick, stroll, albon when he's back, Landon, leclerc etc.

Second I watch alot of the f1 summary videos, driver interviews, and follow closely with articles about f1 gossip. Alonso of course is going to say he's treated harshly because he's an ultra competitive driver racing and he will obviously react to critique harshly - he's trying to win. Now, every story has 2 sides, clearly the fia is trying to be unbiased as much as possible. Alonso was complaining that when he cut track limits he was punished vs. others who did it before him not getting punished. My point of view is the fia at first saw that only some drivers cut the limit in free practice, they didn't think it was a big deal until it happened more and more and more. Over time they realized it was becoming an issue and decided to enforce it, this could have happened right as Alonso decided to start cutting the limit. Thus he was coincidentally punished on the first attempt, to him this was the fia targeting him. To me it was a coincidence because track limit violation was happening so much that eventually it was time to enforce it and Alonso got caught out. He even said he never cut track limits until late into the season then he got punished instantly, well that just means he waited too long to do it and finally was caught when it was enforced. It's literally the same thing as speeding a bit in a monitored zone for instance, the first few people might be let off because the cop isn't feeling like it's a huge issue. Then as more and more people do it eventually the cop is gonna catch someone, and that person who he catches will feel targeted - same thing.


No because people are too emotional, of course they're not going to support the other team. Me I don't care, that's what makes it easier to be a spectator and see things clearly. Because I literally don't really care, I'm not emotionally tied to who wins or looses.

I disagree with you that the Fia is trying to be unbiased in fact it's the opposite with their actions to unblinkered fans and their clumsy way in keeping it fair just doesn't add up with what Merc have been getting away with their blessing especially at this stage. You must be blind mate if you think it's all square in the circus, don't make me laugh.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I disagree with you that the Fia is trying to be unbiased in fact it's the opposite with their actions to unblinkered fans and their clumsy way in keeping it fair just doesn't add up with what Merc have been getting away with their blessing especially at this stage. You must be blind mate if you think it's all square in the circus, don't make me laugh.

Again I respectfully disagree with your opinion, and again offer my counter.

Nope I am looking at this situation logically, you've shown you cannot see things with fact and it is evident by your insane bias towards RB.

If mercedes was being treated with alot more "favor" where is your concrete proof. Because if you can prove it then not only will your point be valid but you will provide redbull with likely a multi million dollar law suit. But since you don't have evidence except for your opinions and emotion to cloud your judgement then your case is moot and at best speculation. The FIA and F1 are innocent until proven guilty - simple fact.


If I were to look at this case objectively then I agree, Mercedes has gotten away with quite a bit, especially that silverstone crash. I also think the FIA makes some dumb calls too like their 5 second time penalty fiasco, and the AMR fuel penalty. However they made each of their calls based on the rules and their given judgement, and again what they say goes sometimes it isn't fair because humans cannot be 100% bias free. But like I said until you have enough concrete evidence they acted with ill will or are not carrying out rule enforcement accurately and fairly - to the point where you have a court case. Then the FIA/F1 are doing an acceptable job.


BTW these same points have been hashed out over a crap ton of boxing fights, and again the judges could not be proven guilty of favoring one fighter over the other despite crazy biased score cards when it was obvious one fighter was dominating. But since we have humans judging they could have seen things differently and score based on what they saw. Again until you have solid proof it is just speculation.

[Techno 9000]

I well remember the days of Ferrari dominance in the early '00's where FIA was often branded "Ferrari International Assist" due to the number of times decisions went their way and the rival teams fans didn't like it.

Times haven't changed. People still rail against dominant teams.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Techno 9000

I well remember the days of Ferrari dominance in the early '00's where FIA was often branded "Ferrari International Assist" due to the number of times decisions went their way and the rival teams fans didn't like it.

Times haven't changed. People still rail against dominant teams.

People always hate on winners.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

Again I respectfully disagree with your opinion, and again offer my counter.

Nope I am looking at this situation logically, you've shown you cannot see things with fact and it is evident by your insane bias towards RB.

If mercedes was being treated with alot more "favor" where is your concrete proof. Because if you can prove it then not only will your point be valid but you will provide redbull with likely a multi million dollar law suit. But since you don't have evidence except for your opinions and emotion to cloud your judgement then your case is moot and at best speculation. The FIA and F1 are innocent until proven guilty - simple fact.


If I were to look at this case objectively then I agree, Mercedes has gotten away with quite a bit, especially that silverstone crash. I also think the FIA makes some dumb calls too like their 5 second time penalty fiasco, and the AMR fuel penalty. However they made each of their calls based on the rules and their given judgement, and again what they say goes sometimes it isn't fair because humans cannot be 100% bias free. But like I said until you have enough concrete evidence they acted with ill will or are not carrying out rule enforcement accurately and fairly - to the point where you have a court case. Then the FIA/F1 are doing an acceptable job.


BTW these same points have been hashed out over a crap ton of boxing fights, and again the judges could not be proven guilty of favoring one fighter over the other despite crazy biased score cards when it was obvious one fighter was dominating. But since we have humans judging they could have seen things differently and score based on what they saw. Again until you have solid proof it is just speculation.

Proof. You join in like one or two others asking that, well that's easy so go back to the many posts where there are many examples of that, you only have to take it on board in what has been allowed or ignored by the gov. body...the illegal DAS is one glaring example what was not banned at the time when Merc had another DAS less setup ready

[M5Rick]

Ericsson has said MV is at a level to become World Champion.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/96487...-champion.html

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by F87source

Again I respectfully disagree with your opinion, and again offer my counter.

With full respect you are wasting your time with these clowns.
No amount of explanation, logic and FIA rules quoted will convince them that whatever their conspiracy theory of the day is in fact not true.
A lot of people have tried and eventually given up.
DAS is next in line it appears...that it was fully legal under the FIAs regulations counts for nothing.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

*****

Some say I never put Lewis on. ''I told you!'' lol

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Some say I never put Lewis on. ''I told you!'' lol

The Wolf was warned by Pirelli during the race . HAM's tires could have blown at any moment !

Alpine was warned as well . Regarding Ocon's tires and his right front tire was in pieces .

HAM and Ocon were a danger for the other drivers at that moment!
Pirelli warned Mercedes just in time ! Too bad !

Of course , The FIA and Pirelli 'IS Mercedes !

#FIAMercedes

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The Wolf was warned by Pirelli during the race . HAM's tires could have blown at any moment !

Alpine was warned as well . Regarding Ocon's tires and his right front tire was in pieces .

HAM and Ocon were a danger for the other drivers at that moment!
Pirelli warned Mercedes just in time ! Too bad !

Of course , The FIA and Pirelli 'IS Mercedes !

#FIAMercedes

I read somewhere that Merc will be more strict with Ham to do as he's told and not talk BS

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I read somewhere that Merc will be more strict with Ham to do as he's told and not talk BS

"Francorchamps" the latest ..

It's down...The "Iconic Challet" on top of 'Eau Rouge is down !

The construction works started for the 'Eau Rouge safety measures ..
New grandstands are planned as well. Price of the whole package is 80 million Euro's !

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Proof. You join in like one or two others asking that, well that's easy so go back to the many posts where there are many examples of that, you only have to take it on board in what has been allowed or ignored by the gov. body...the illegal DAS is one glaring example what was not banned at the time when Merc had another DAS less setup ready

DAS was not rendered illegal while it was running. It was an ingenious solution. Much like FRIC and the F-Duct. Except for the extreme EBD and off-throttle exhaust blowing, what innovations has RBR delivered that aren't in the vein of actual cheating? They go to the same playbook - flexi-wings, etc.

While Newey may have been the best designer in the past, he is clearly past his prime.

Mercedes is about to release the hounds for the last 6 races. Stay tuned to this place for the updates.

I provide free Kleenex if needed.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by yco

i believe the McLaren today is more likely thanks to Andre Seidl.. Zak Brown's leadership maybe it is but doesnt seem distinctive or inspiring.. can be observed from how Zak talks with their drivers.. in some personal level.. but Andre Seidl is undervalued name who contributed McLaren a lot recently.. even pushing things forwards putting Merc' engines in McLaren cars was one of the simplest but very right moves for example..

Agreed. Zach gets the funding, Andre runs the team and doesn’t crave the spotlight.