Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

It could also be misreporting its the BBC afterall...

Even the blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. but it's actually much worse.
Justice Department accuses SpaceX of hiring bias against refugees
Lawsuit alleges SpaceX is wrong when it says it legally can hire only American citizens and green-card holders.
According to the lawsuit, SpaceX officials said on numerous occasions between 2018 and last year that it could hire only U.S. citizens and green-card holders because of restrictive export control laws governing the use of rocket and missile technology.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...-musk-lawsuit/

Yes by all means share our rocket and missile technology with people who can't even qualify for a green card. What could possibly go wrong?

Just when I think I've seen all the stupid there is in this world these a$$ clowns serve up a new helping of stupid.

Got to see if there's still some scotch in the bar

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Lawmakers unveil $25 billion legislation to convert US school buses to electric
This week, Democratic lawmakers introduced legislation that would invest $25 billion to convert the entire US fleet of ICE school buses to electric vehicles. The bill would authorize federal grant money over the course of 10 years, and 40% of the funds would be specifically devoted to replacing school buses operating in mostly nonwhite, poorer communities.
As reported by ABC News, in the US alone, school buses account for 90% of the total buses on roads and regularly transport about 25 million children per day.
https://electrek.co/2021/04/23/lawma...s-to-electric/

Why do Democrats hate Children and Minorities? Electric school buses? What could possibly go wrong.

I see a stock making money with this news. I hope Tesla build a them. Lol. Cheetah mode will get these dumb ass kids to school quickly

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Even the blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. but it's actually much worse.
Justice Department accuses SpaceX of hiring bias against refugees
Lawsuit alleges SpaceX is wrong when it says it legally can hire only American citizens and green-card holders.
According to the lawsuit, SpaceX officials said on numerous occasions between 2018 and last year that it could hire only U.S. citizens and green-card holders because of restrictive export control laws governing the use of rocket and missile technology.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...-musk-lawsuit/

Yes by all means share our rocket and missile technology with people who can even qualify for a green card. What could possibly go wrong?

Just when I think I've seen all the stupid there is in this world these a$$ clowns serve up a new helping of stupid.

Got to see if there's still some scotch in the bar

If you really knew half of the stupid I've seen working in classified environments. It'll make your blood boil more than it is now. Not to mention how our fearless political officials are not held even remotely close to the same standards as us peons that have to go through all the vetting and consequences of mistakes in handling classified material. Many of which doesn't even rise to the egregious breaches that were conscious and blatant by said politicians.

[Car-Addicted]

China’s EV slowdown drags down Nvidia’s ‘next billion-dollar business’
Within the three months ended July 30, automotive income fell by 15% from the prior quarter — the primary sequential decline in additional than a yr.
China is the world’s largest auto market. In the previous couple of years, the nation has grow to be a driver of the worldwide push towards electrical automobiles.
https://autorecent.com/2023/08/25/ch...ollar-business

China’s new EV subsidies might not be enough to bolster slowing growth
One of the few detailed stimulus plans Beijing has announced this year extends tax breaks for electric car purchases, according to documents released Wednesday.
The incentives – which were set to expire this year – will now run until the end of 2027.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/22/chin...ng-growth.html

[KRS_SN]

https://jalopnik.com/dealers-are-tur...ort-1850771467

The comments section is much like on here..some educated discussions.

[Eternal Vibration]

I think a lot of people miss the point and true purpose of EV's. This is not about ideal convenience or a new technology's day to day practicality. Its about what the world and people NEED. This is about the earth we live on and the air we breath. If you have ever been to a major city like LA, the city skyline is littered with smog, thats all your combustion greatness accumulated over the years. Your kids breath that, you do too. This type of human activity cant continue for ever.

1) We WILL damage the environment further through the use of combustion engines.
2) There will be increased health problems
3) The oil resources WILL deplete eventually and prices will skyrocket.

All 3 of these situations are bad for everyone. We have no choice but to move off fossil fuels sooner than later. Transportation, shipping, cargo, heavy equipment, everything needs to shift to a different, renewable or clean power source.

EV's are a in their infancy compared to the reign of the combustion engine. The millions of gas stations all over the world will be replaced with charging stations or battery swap centers. But think about how long it took to build all those gas stations? 50 years? It will take at least another 10 years for wide spread adoption and true wide spread ease of use
for many people to make EV's comparable with gasoline.

The battery packs will get better, the charging times will get shorter, the number of stations will increase rapidly.

All these together make for a practical transition to a necessary direction for humanity. As much as I love gas engines, noise, and fire. I can't help but recognize the truth that I pay hundreds of dollars every month to burn the Earth's oil and put it into the very air I breath every day. Not only me, but probably a BILLION other people at least. I don't want to do that anymore.

Maybe a company will make hydrogen powered cars (not fuel cell) so we can have the best of both worlds. Still goes boom, but you get H20 instead of NOx and C02.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Eternal Vibration

I think a lot of people miss the point and true purpose of EV's. This is not about ideal convenience or a new technology's day to day practicality. Its about what the world and people NEED. This is about the earth we live on and the air we breath. If you have ever been to a major city like LA, the city skyline is littered with smog, thats all your combustion greatness accumulated over the years. Your kids breath that, you do too. This type of human activity cant continue for ever.

1) We WILL damage the environment further through the use of combustion engines.
2) There will be increased health problems
3) The oil resources WILL deplete eventually and prices will skyrocket.

All 3 of these situations are bad for everyone. We have no choice but to move off fossil fuels sooner than later. Transportation, shipping, cargo, heavy equipment, everything needs to shift to a different, renewable or clean power source.

The question remains, when and how much?

EV's are a in their infancy compared to the reign of the combustion engine. The millions of gas stations all over the world will be replaced with charging stations or battery swap centers. But think about how long it took to build all those gas stations? 50 years? It will take at least another 10 years for wide spread adoption and true wide spread ease of use
for many people to make EV's comparable with gasoline.

The battery packs will get better, the charging times will get shorter, the number of stations will increase rapidly.

The question remains, when and how much?


It's kind of like deficit spending, a little in the right places at the right time is good for everyone. A lot all over with little concern for timing is awful for everyone.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Serious question. How do you live with yourself knowing everything you do harms the planet? Every time you breathe you exhale CO2. How does that make you feel? Everything you eat is produced and delivered to the store using carbon fuels. The dwelling you live in was built and is maintained using carbon fuels. Even when you flush your toilet is causes release of CO2. How does that make you feel?

I'm honestly curious.

If the honest answer is "I want to do my part to reduce", the solution is to do a lot of other things : no more plastic, no more disposable anything, no more heat in the winter or AC in the summer, move closer to where you work, stop buying from China where most of the global CO2 is being generated to produce our goods, etc, etc, etc. There are so many other ways to reduce that impact more, and more quickly.

Drive an EV for fun, not to save the planet.

[Car-Addicted]

Eternal Vibration: I don't doubt your passion but your very wrong on your facts.

Lets start out with global climate change. It is the way of ALL planets. We have had ice ages and we have had extinction level heating cycles. Don't listen to me or Al Gore but crack open a basic geology book and learn for your self. Start by looking at the Ordovician- Silurian and the Jurassic-Cretaceous periods when CO2 levels were greater than 4000 ppmv (parts per million by volume) and about 2000 ppmv respectively.

Next EV batteries are made of earth elements from deep mines. The standard EV battery requires 900 metric tons of ore. This has to be refined and transported.
There is at this time no financially viable recycling program for LiPo batteries.

Peak Oil is more Green BS. We are currently making oil. It is part of the earths cycle.

The answer is not replacement of ICE's or fossil fuels but conservation and development of new energy sources.

[Eternal Vibration]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Serious question. How do you live with yourself knowing everything you do harms the planet? Every time you breathe you exhale CO2. How does that make you feel? Everything you eat is produced and delivered to the store using carbon fuels. The dwelling you live in was built and is maintained using carbon fuels. Even when you flush your toilet is causes release of CO2. How does that make you feel?

I'm honestly curious.

These criticisms are biased and incomplete.

1) If the entire world drove EV's right now, there would be ZERO pollution from automotive transportation. That is, the act of driving, not the the act of producing the EV's. Do you have any idea how much of a difference that would make? Not considering all of the resources that go into batteries etc.. just the net effect. Yes there are almost always negative consequences to mass producing. Battery mining, making magnets, etc. It all requires earth resources. Recycling will come because it has to. Its already in development, and there ARE commercial recycling centers specifically developed for Lithium Ion batteries. Is there enough, no probably not. But remember how old is the ICE powered car? How old is the first Tesla? Tesla revolutionized EV's which is why I refer to them. I know there are others before them.
2) CO2? Who cares about CO2? What did I say about CO2? Can you sit in the same room with 10 other people and breath? Yes, can you sit in a closed garage with 1 gas powered car on and live? No! Get over yourself. The point AND FACT is that exhaust is TOXIC and every day you and I are making the air we breath toxic. So next time you by a new car, think about that. Maybe, just maybe buying an EV is the right choice for an educated mind.

3) Your comments are moronic, did you even read what I said?

Originally Posted by Eternal Vibration

Transportation, shipping, cargo, heavy equipment, everything needs to shift to a different, renewable or clean power source.

This implies that every form of transportation or vehicle needs to be electric or similar. My grocery store food is delivered, which is "shipping" or "cargo", with an electric truck, place of dwelling built with electric cranes and bulldozers. Do I need to keep going?

My perspective is encompassing and your, "everything you do harms the planet" is completely blind and dumb. If I go for a walk is that harming the planet too? If I sing, is that harming the planet too? If type on this computer which is in a building powered by solar panels is that harming the environment too?

I think you need to grow up. Or learn something.

[Car-Addicted]

Someone needs a nap.

[Eternal Vibration]

I am just going to keep adding:




https://lhsstatesman.com/2020/05/dec...-taken-13279/#

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...ets-over-china

Blind and dumb.

Cars, GASOLINE Cars cause air pollution. Smog, everything you see in those links is about gas and fossil fuels. THAT HARMS THE PLANET. Taking a shit doesn't. Sorry "Efthreeoh" I will remember to never read another post from you.

Everything you do harms the planet? I have not heard such incompetence for years.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Eternal Vibration

Everything you do harms the planet? I have not heard such incompetence for years.

Some of the watts consumed to facilitate and subsequently post that comment were not generated with green power. You are literally part of the problem, as are all of the rest of us.

My reply consumes even more.

You reading my reply will consume some more on top of that.

[Eternal Vibration]

This is about EV's not about how much power the internet takes! LOL.

Artist: "Ahh electric cars!! We can change the world, my kids and their grand kids will breathe like we never have"

Critic: You F'ing tree hugger, gas>batteries even the letters you type pollute noob"

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Eternal Vibration

This is about EV's not about how much power the internet takes! LOL.

Artist: "Ahh electric cars!! We can change the world, my kids and their grand kids will breathe like we never have"

Critic: You F'ing tree hugger, gas>batteries even the letters you type pollute noob"

Sigh
A vehicle's carbon footprint is not just its lifetime carbon emission, whether that's direct (like an ICE), or indirect (like an EV)
Switching all forms of transportation to battery power is not solving smog, you are shifting that carbon being produced by vehicles in cities to the massive power required to support this asinine idea. The US is already seeing regular power outages as the demand for power continues to soar, so how is it possible for the world to switch to all battery power when we can barely meet the current demand for energy?

The battery tech is coming? When? Solid state is EV 2.0, but still don't solve the demand for energy at all, it just makes things worse
The battery recycling will come? When, where is the money to make it sustainable?
The power required to support all EV transportation is coming? Power by what, fusion? Unicorn tears? Wind and solar?

Where is the $$$? Is Elon going to suddenly be a environmentalist and use his fortune to build sustainable power generation? He could've end world hunger 6 times over but chose to buy a social media platform so I seriously have my doubts

How about just stop consuming and bulldozing every last thing on earth now that's cleaning the air... instead of trying to solve smog and CO2 with EV, how about go the other direction and plant a tree, protect wetlands, clean water, and the very natural things that actually cleans our carbon emission, support research into natural conservation. Those leave a far higher impact long term than a battery powered vehicle.

[KRS_SN]

One can continue to buy cigarettes and alcohol

But one can't buy an ice car anymore after 2030.

[Eternal Vibration]

Originally Posted by kyriian

Sigh
A vehicle's carbon footprint is not just its lifetime carbon emission, whether that's direct (like an ICE), or indirect (like an EV)
Switching all forms of transportation to battery power is not solving smog, you are shifting that carbon being produced by vehicles in cities to the massive power required to support this asinine idea. The US is already seeing regular power outages as the demand for power continues to soar, so how is it possible for the world to switch to all battery power when we can barely meet the current demand for energy?

The battery tech is coming? When? Solid state is EV 2.0, but still don't solve the demand for energy at all, it just makes things worse
The battery recycling will come? When, where is the money to make it sustainable?
The power required to support all EV transportation is coming? Power by what, fusion? Unicorn tears? Wind and solar?

Where is the $$$? Is Elon going to suddenly be a environmentalist and use his fortune to build sustainable power generation? He could've end world hunger 6 times over but chose to buy a social media platform so I seriously have my doubts

How about just stop consuming and bulldozing every last thing on earth now that's cleaning the air... instead of trying to solve smog and CO2 with EV, how about go the other direction and plant a tree, protect wetlands, clean water, and the very natural things that actually cleans our carbon emission, support research into natural conservation. Those leave a far higher impact long term than a battery powered vehicle.

1) There are plenty of options for electricity production that, if the resources used to find and produce oil were transitioned to, the implementation of them and scaling them up would be trivial. Solar, Wind, Ocean, Hydroelectric, geothermal.
2) There is a development time for all relevant technology. Resources, money, people. Imagine how many billions of dollars, millions of hours of collective time in engineering and development have been spent on improving the ICE over the past 20 years? Metal processing, machining, combustion technology, emission, electric systems...Its a massive industry. Even more so in energy and resources needed for mass production. The EV market (cars, maintenance centers, charging stations, power supply, recycling) has not realized this type of development scale yet. We are just experiencing the birth.
3) Producing electricity is MUCH easier than going to dig up oil.
- Electricity can be produced on-site with NO requirements for transporting it. From a physics stand point and from a practical standpoint. I can produce electricity by rubbing my socks on the carpet. If I want a drop of oil...Where do I even start. First you have to find it, then you have to get it... Drill very very deep hole in the ground. I need tools, power equipment, and I have to camp out for a few days just to break through the earth's crust. Not only that, If I wanted to actually use it for gasoline, I have to get it to a refinery, process it, then I can use it. There is so much that goes into the production of gas that its not really well understood by many.
- Electricity can be produced on site, almost anywhere during the day from solar. Every building could have solar if we supported the infrastructure for it. Then we could power the cars directly from sunlight that is harvested at the same location of charging. Or a solar array that is not far off.

The necessary steps to create a sustainable and sufficient power systems are small compared to the resources already put into the current power grid. Even less to create the oil empire. If the ruling powers, or the people just stood up and said, we are doing this...it will get done. If we sit back and think everything is ok...it will take 20 years.


There is another factor that makes EV's superior long term. That is simplicity. This is an M4 forum....have you looked at the complexity of ICE's these days? Even the I6 of the M4? Crazy machining tolerances, hundreds of components, sensors, computers, transmissions, drive shafts, differentials. Cars are crazy complex. There is so much engineering, material, and manufacturing processes that go into a ICE powered car.

1) FACT Electric cars have fewer parts than an ICE car
2) Less complexity and parts directly translates to lower production costs AND less production energy
3) Lower production costs lead to faster adoption rates, lower energy leads to less pollution.

The change will happen because it has to. Sooner or later people will wake up and realize, oh...wow why were we burning the Earth for the past 100 years? Yea, lets not do that anymore.

There are many other ways to support the environment, yes EV's is not the only thing, it may not even be the most practical or the best way. But that is not the point. The title of this thread is "still want an EV?" its not "EPA brainstorming session". ? Yup, I'll take an EV...Still.

You know...the M4 is going to be an EV some day. Damn...All you suckers will be driving one too.
Oh wait...its already on its way!
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/12/bm...d-motor-setup/

[gonzo]

Ceiling fans!
Everything is about the ceiling fans.

Fletch.



(You are not in an Incompetence Simulation, all of this lunacy is actually happening)

[Veritas579]

I love EVs for what they are, but they wont make a difference in pollution for a very long time.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Amusing is the dude drives an M4. I just love it. Comes in this thread and lectures all of us about the environment, yet he drives a highly over-powered economy-class car (in Europe).

Didn't you get the climate activist memo?

"Do as I say not as I do."

"Rules for thee but not for me."

Ranks right up there with how attendees for the climate summit all flew in on their private jets.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Veritas579

I love EVs for what they are, but they wont make a difference in pollution for a very long time.

The issue here is that pollution is NOT limited to air pollution. There is polluted air I would breath but next to no polluted water I would drink.

OOPS
Lithium Batteries' Dirty Secret: Manufacturing Them Leaves Massive Carbon Footprint
Once in operation, electric cars certainly reduce your carbon footprint, but making the lithium-ion batteries could emit 74% more CO2 than for conventional cars.
Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74% more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it's made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls' findings.
To be sure, other studies show that even in coal-dominant Poland, using an electric car would emit 25% less carbon dioxide than a diesel car, according to Transport & Environment Brussels, a body that lobbies the European Union for sustainable environmental policy.
https://www.industryweek.com/technol...rbon-footprint

[Car-Addicted]

OOPS
How much CO2 is emitted by manufacturing batteries?
Producing lithium-ion batteries for electric vehicles is more material-intensive than producing traditional combustion engines, and the demand for battery materials is rising, explains Yang Shao-Horn, JR East Professor of Engineering in the MIT Departments of Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science and Engineering. Currently, most lithium is extracted from hard rock mines or underground brine reservoirs, and much of the energy used to extract and process it comes from CO2-emitting fossil fuels. Particularly in hard rock mining, for every tonne of mined lithium, 15 tonnes of CO2 are emitted into the air.

Battery materials come with other costs, too. Mining raw materials like lithium, cobalt, and nickel is labor-intensive, requires chemicals and enormous amounts of water—frequently from areas where water is scarce—and can leave contaminants and toxic waste behind. 60% of the world’s cobalt comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where questions about human rights violations such as child labor continue to arise.

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/how-...ring-batteries