Firearms

[adc100]

Originally Posted by Grip Addict

I have the skill/training that I feel I would draw/chamber a round faster than any person infringing on my safety and my life.

I understand 100% what you are saying. And in the past I did that. In the interim I got my certificate to teach basic pistol and took two more intermediate courses (SD)and for the past almost 4 years I average 7 private lessons per year (cheap-75 bucks) in a Law Enforcement Center.

The chances of needing to draw very quickly are almost nill..if someone has a bead on you , you would want to run around (harder target) and get your firearm out. This scenario limits you with no round in the chamber.

First the likelihood of a misfeed in a nervous situation is much higher.

But More importantly:

You lose the secrecy. Your most dangerous time is when you are in a restaurant eating. In this case you slowly and secretly draw your firearm and position it so you can get a shot off almost instantly. Racking and needing to let the slide forward and you lose the edge.

If you carry you need to think of conditions where you might need it. What I have mentioned is the biggest threat time. My instructor and I have spent time prepping these things.

The moon will fall out of the sky before a safetylless glock goes off without your finger on the trigger.

How do think you could get in trouble with one in the pipe? Again I am not looking for an argument. :cheers:

[Golddots]

Short stroking a firearm is a thing. As are malfunctions related to a stressful "israeli draw".

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by adc100

I understand 100% what you are saying. And in the past I did that. In the interim I got my certificate to teach basic pistol and took two more intermediate courses (SD)and for the past almost 4 years I average 7 private lessons per year (cheap-75 bucks) in a Law Enforcement Center.

The chances of needing to draw very quickly are almost nill..if someone has a bead on you , you would want to run around (harder target) and get your firearm out. This scenario limits you with no round in the chamber.

First the likelihood of a misfeed in a nervous situation is much higher.

But More importantly:

You lose the secrecy. Your most dangerous time is when you are in a restaurant eating. In this case you slowly and secretly draw your firearm and position it so you can get a shot off almost instantly. Racking and needing to let the slide forward and you lose the edge.

If you carry you need to think of conditions where you might need it. What I have mentioned is the biggest threat time. My instructor and I have spent time prepping these things.

The moon will fall out of the sky before a safetylless glock goes off without your finger on the trigger.

How do think you could get in trouble with one in the pipe? Again I am not looking for an argument. :cheers:

Why would you ever consider carrying a firearm and not have one chambered. Especially if you're carrying a Glock. You can literally throw the thing on the ground with one in chamber and it will not go off. I carried one for over 20 years it was always loaded with one in the chamber and ready to go, that is what the pistol is designed for. And FTR.....practice, practice practice . When under stress you want only to rely on muscle memory. You don't want to be fucking around with racking etc.....you'll be scared, panicked and your fine motor skills will go for a shit, you'll have tunnel vision and if you shoot most of your rounds will likely miss so screwing around with functioning the action will put you on the losing end of any gun fight. He who shots first wins.

[1MOREMOD]

Carry the rounds loose in your pockets and gun empty, make it a challenge

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

Why would you ever consider carrying a firearm and not have one chambered. Especially if you're carrying a Glock. You can literally throw the thing on the ground with one in chamber and it will not go off. I carried one for over 20 years it was always loaded with one in the chamber and ready to go, that is what the pistol is designed for. And FTR.....practice, practice practice . When under stress you want only to rely on muscle memory. You don't want to be fucking around with racking etc.....you'll be scared, panicked and your fine motor skills will go for a shit, you'll have tunnel vision and if you shoot most of your rounds will likely miss so screwing around with functioning the action will put you on the losing end of any gun fight. He who shots first wins.

I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often. I know many thousands carry Glocks without incident on the job but it does seem to happen more with the make both civilians and LE. Myself I prefer DA/SA( Sig and Beretta specifically) and that’s what I carry.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often. I know many thousands carry Glocks without incident on the job but it does seem to happen more with the make both civilians and LE. Myself I prefer DA/SA( Sig and Beretta specifically) and that’s what I carry.

Having seen Glocks launched down range, dropped on the street, in the office, at the proving station, etc. I have a lot of faith in their internal safety. My point is really, carry what you like, don't switch it up and practice because when things are going for a shit so will most of what you think you'll do and you will rely on familiarity and muscle memory. But what do I know, this is just my two cents.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often.

Its ND for a reason. The owner screwed up. The reason it comes more (if it does) is for everyone that carries a DA/SA there are 10 (or more) carrying a striker fire pistol.

99.999999+++% of ND's are bc the dude/dudess pulled the fcking trigger. I don't like the DA/SA (and professionals in SD don't either) bc your finger needs to work with the same pressure and pull each and every time the trigger is actuated. And it goes without saying you won't get a consistent trigger reset to prepare you for the 2nd shot. And yes I realize that the overwhelming numbers of concealed carriers pay zero attention to trigger reset. But again its what you are comfortable with.

Originally Posted by Grip Addict

Suggestions on storing a SBR-sized rifle, CZ Scorpion specifically?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-...binet/11071334

Doesn't cost an arm and a leg and you can easily conceal it behind a mirror on a hinge, etc.

[SchillerM]

Originally Posted by Grip Addict

Suggestions on storing a SBR-sized rifle, CZ Scorpion specifically?

I have no kids yet, so no danger for someone stumbling upon it.

I am thinking a above the door frame closet mount somehow, but wondering how you guys withOUT gun safes store your guns about the house?

https://concealcanvas.com/
I like that idea. Magnetic lock, looks like just a picture so if your not home it's unlikely to be spotted unlike a wall safe.

[chowser51]

Having dropped a loaded Glock several times during training, on the street, etc, never went off. Having said that, pocket carry without a pocket holster is asking for trouble.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by chowser51

Having dropped a loaded Glock several times during training, on the street, etc, never went off. Having said that, pocket carry without a pocket holster is asking for trouble.

Dropping isn’t the problem it’s the trigger design. Nearly are pistols are made drop safe now.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often. I know many thousands carry Glocks without incident on the job but it does seem to happen more with the make both civilians and LE. Myself I prefer DA/SA( Sig and Beretta specifically) and that’s what I carry.

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

Having seen Glocks launched down range, dropped on the street, in the office, at the proving station, etc. I have a lot of faith in their internal safety. My point is really, carry what you like, don't switch it up and practice because when things are going for a shit so will most of what you think you'll do and you will rely on familiarity and muscle memory. But what do I know, this is just my two cents.

Most of the Glock NDs involve re-holstering, or simply the operator not keeping his finger off of the bang switch.

I personally have found that I don't enjoy shooting Glocks, and I don't carry something I don't shoot.

I either carry a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster, or a 1911 in crossbreed, very rarely a 1911 in an outside the belt holster.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by KenB925

Most of the Glock NDs involve re-holstering, or simply the operator not keeping his finger off of the bang switch.

I personally have found that I don't enjoy shooting Glocks, and I don't carry something I don't shoot.

I either carry a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster, or a 1911 in crossbreed, very rarely a 1911 in an outside the belt holster.

Don’t carry my Colt 5” outside often but when I do I use a Sparks Axiom. It’s really nice, comfortable and tucks in very well.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

Different scenarios. I'm talking about the guns I keep in my house. I don't want to give away my position by having to chamber a round if a guy has forced entry into my house. Carrying is different. I have nothing against carrying a 1911 cocked and locked. But I also don't have any quarrel with your practice of carrying unchambered. To some extent it depends on the gun. I would carry a Glock unchambered because it basically has no safety.

Glocks actually have 3 safeties. Drop, trigger and firing pin safety.

If you carry unchambered, then you may either need more training, a new holster with better retention, or both.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Glocks actually have 3 safeties. Drop, trigger and firing pin safety.

If you carry unchambered, then you may either need more training, a new holster with better retention, or both.

In my experience and from my understanding there is only one way for a Clock to fire a round and that requires the trigger being pulled.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Glocks actually have 3 safeties. Drop, trigger and firing pin safety.

If you carry unchambered, then you may either need more training, a new holster with better retention, or both.

I own several Glocks and I understand how the safeties work. I understand that a Glock will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I was simply making the point that the Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. For this reason, I look at Glocks differently. Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon. I love Glocks, and I think they are safe when carried holstered and used by someone with some training.

For those making pronouncements on what is the only “right” way to carry. Yeah whatever.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit;25162205 Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. [/quote

Exactly what are you talking about here a "safety". I have never heard of the term "trigger lockout"

Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon.

I will say again...anytime you touch a firearm, holster, unholster it and use it...your mind must be 100% on THE Firearm .If you are careless enough to get something against the trigger (besides your finger), you (not you personally) are not competent enough to use any firearm without supervision-period.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by adc100

Exactly what are you talking about here a "safety". I have never heard of the term "trigger lockout"

Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon.

I will say again...anytime you touch a firearm, holster, unholster it and use it...your mind must be 100% on THE Firearm .If you are careless enough to get something against the trigger (besides your finger), you (not you personally) are not competent enough to use any firearm without supervision-period.[/QUOTE]

Dude, I’ve been using guns for nearly 50 years. Spare me the lecture. I’m an instructor and an RSO. Maybe you are unfamiliar with any kind of safety other than the Glock trigger safety. Maybe you are a die hard Glock fan boy. I don’t know. But the fact is that most safeties prevent the gun from firing even if the trigger is pulled. For example, the 1911.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

I own several Glocks and I understand how the safeties work. I understand that a Glock will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I was simply making the point that the Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. For this reason, I look at Glocks differently. Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon. I love Glocks, and I think they are safe when carried holstered and used by someone with some training.

For those making pronouncements on what is the only “right” way to carry. Yeah whatever.

Originally Posted by adc100

Exactly what are you talking about here a "safety". I have never heard of the term "trigger lockout"

Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon.

I will say again...anytime you touch a firearm, holster, unholster it and use it...your mind must be 100% on THE Firearm .If you are careless enough to get something against the trigger (besides your finger), you (not you personally) are not competent enough to use any firearm without supervision-period.

Yeah....but....you are not a true American if you don't give the pistol a good spin before holstering or immediately after unholstering. I'd like to see how many Glocks go off with a good spin.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

Dude, I’ve been using guns for nearly 50 years. Spare me the lecture. I’m an instructor and an RSO. Maybe you are unfamiliar with any kind of safety other than the Glock trigger safety. Maybe you are a die hard Glock fan boy. I don’t know. But the fact is that most safeties prevent the gun from firing even if the trigger is pulled. For example, the 1911.

Well I am 73 and went hunting at the age of 12. I am a range officer and an NRA instructor in Basic Pistol. I realize that isn't saying a lot but I'm working up to "Inside and Outside the Home" I have have/had 3 instructors at the Law Enforcement Center of HAACF (you can look it up)..I only get the instructors who Teach Police Instructors.

I am only pointing this out bc you brought up your "qualifications."-realizing no one knows if either of us ever handled a firearm.

And why did you mention:
"Trigger Lock" when I assume you meant "safety or Trigger Safety" A trigger lock physically locks the trigger with a "key"

But anyway..carry on. I am officially unsubscribing.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

In my experience and from my understanding there is only one way for a Clock to fire a round and that requires the trigger being pulled.

I thought that applied to all handguns except for the P320!

Originally Posted by CigarPundit

I own several Glocks and I understand how the safeties work. I understand that a Glock will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I was simply making the point that the Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. For this reason, I look at Glocks differently. Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon. I love Glocks, and I think they are safe when carried holstered and used by someone with some training.

For those making pronouncements on what is the only "right" way to carry. Yeah whatever.

Not trying to insult you or anything. I just meant if a handgun is being concealed or carried, a proper holster with a trigger guard should always be used; even in the pocket (pocket holster) regardless if it's striker or hammer fired.

I agree. They should be carried by people with some training, but that applies to all firearms.

[CigarPundit]

Originally Posted by paliknight

I thought that applied to all handguns except for the P320!


Not trying to insult you or anything. I just meant if a handgun is being concealed or carried, a proper holster with a trigger guard should always be used; even in the pocket (pocket holster) regardless if it's striker or hammer fired.

I agree. They should be carried by people with some training, but that applies to all firearms.

I agree with all of that. I’ve just never been entirely comfortable with the Glock trigger safety. It’s a single action trigger (albeit a crappy one with a long pull) and having one in the pipe on a draw is just a bit sketchy to me. I’ve been around long enough to know that mistakes happen and not everyone is in a constant state of training. That’s why there are two schools of thought on whether to keep one in the pipe or rack one in after the draw. Neither one is right or wrong, they just have different risks and benefits.

I just can’t stand it when people act like there is only one “right” way to carry, and discount legitimate concerns by claiming that only a moron would make a mistake that would cause those concerns to be a real world issue. In the real world, things happen quickly, unexpectedly, and under great stress. The one thing you can count on is that mistakes will be made. Unless you are John Wick, of course, in which case

I’m more comfortable with carrying a 1911 cocked and locked. I acknowledge that something could go wrong on the draw there too, but I find it more secure than a Glock on the draw. Now if they were only as reliable