Highland park IL 4th of July parade shooting

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I have a number of friends with AR-15 style rifles and only one of those friends is truly proficient and routinely practices/competes with it as a sport. He finds it hilarious and disturbing that so many look to these rifles as a home defense, hunting, or "plinking" rifle. He admits it is a rifle with one purpose, to kill many people quickly with a light weight, compact, and easy to shoot rifle. It is afterall the same rifle platform issued to the US military.

I quite enjoy hunting with my AR, not sure why your knowledgeable buddy thinks that is funny 🤷. It's also odd he has one and competes and thinks it's only good for killing many people quickly, apparently it's also good for shooting sports as that is what he uses it for?

Your platform comment is a little ridiculous. Consumer cars share the same platform as NASCAR but they are completely different beasts.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I quite enjoy hunting with my AR, not sure why your knowledgeable buddy thinks that is funny ��. It's also odd he has one and competes and thinks it's only good for killing many people quickly, apparently it's also good for shooting sports as that is what he uses it for?

He does tactical/combat style competitions where he's shooting at human outline targets and he works through a course. I have no idea what it's really called nor do I care.

Your platform comment is a little ridiculous. Consumer cars share the same platform as NASCAR but they are completely different beasts.

Don't play dumb. You know what I mean. It's a full modifiable rifle platform. There isn't a single rifle on the civilian market that has so many parts available to make the rifle more compact/concealable, lighter, etc.

I did an audit of a bullet manufacturing facility in Missouri last year. The facility owner put it perfectly when were in a rifle firing range testing cell and there were AR-15 style rifles all over the test cell. He said something to the effect of "The amount of badazzled and gussied up AR-15s owned by civilian men who've never seen a day of combat wanting to play soldier are proof enough that these rifles are ending up in the wrong hands" This is coming from the OWNER of a bullet manufacturing company.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You know it's a large majority(of gun owners) that don't know squat(about the firearms).

You have a source for that 'fact' or did you just make that up? Please cite source. Facts not opinions/feelings move discussions along.



Still waiting for that source any ETA on when we can expect it?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I quite enjoy hunting with my AR, not sure why your knowledgeable buddy thinks that is funny 🤷. It's also odd he has one and competes and thinks it's only good for killing many people quickly, apparently it's also good for shooting sports as that is what he uses it for?

Your platform comment is a little ridiculous. Consumer cars share the same platform as NASCAR but they are completely different beasts.

I think it's funny, too, when they spout off that an AR is a poor choice for home defense and/or hunting. It's pretty laughable really, especially considering an AR is so modular that you can have 5 in your safe and none of them will be alike in terms of ability. My 7.5" 300 BLK home defense AR pistol does not have the same capabilities as my AR-10 or even my standard 16.5" barrel AR-15. Add to that the states that allow suppressors and you have a whole new ball game. Saying all AR's are alike (…and categorizing them all as one thing or another) is akin to saying all Porsche 911's are alike because they all wear the 911 nomenclature.

[ezaircon4jc]

Yet another mis- or ill-informed troll.

I have a CONSTITUNAL RIGHT to keep and bear whatever firearm I choose. Don't like it, you're advised to move to the firearm-free and therefore crime-free country of your choice.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Yet another mis- or ill-informed troll.

I have a CONSTITUNAL RIGHT to keep and bear whatever firearm I choose. Don't like it, you're advised to move to the firearm-free and therefore crime-free country of your choice.

They'd never…..


….because the grass isn't greener.

[Sedan_Clan]

It's always the Altima drivers.

In all seriousness, this is yet another example of people finding ways to do harm to others regardless of the tool.

[pikkagtr]

People who are for gun control aren't really anti guns themselves
They're actually pro gun, but just for certain people.
Because those people need guns to take away other people's guns
I will give up my guns when ALL guns are banned
That means the police won't need guns right? I mean once you ban guns, no one will have them right??

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

People who are for gun control aren't really anti guns themselves
They're actually pro gun, but just for certain people.
Because those people need guns to take away other people's guns
I will give up my guns when ALL guns are banned
That means the police won't need guns right? I mean once you ban guns, no one will have them right??

Interesting points, and I don't disagree. For the segment that is calling for the banning of all guns……..but is okay with only the police having guns…….sets up the population (..criminals exempted, naturally) for being in a really bad position if a police state is ever enacted.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

Yet another mis- or ill-informed troll.

I have a CONSTITUNAL RIGHT to keep and bear whatever firearm I choose. Don't like it, you're advised to move to the firearm-free and therefore crime-free country of your choice.

If that's true, tell us about the fully automatic weapons you can go buy right now. Or tell us about the successful challenges to the assault weapons ban that was in force of 1995 to 2005.

Please comment on the "well regulated" part of the Second Amendment.

Speaking of trolls, the alt right penchant for calling others names that apply to them continues

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

If that's true, tell us about the fully automatic weapons you can go buy right now. Or tell us about the successful challenges to the assault weapons ban that was in force of 1995 to 2005.

Please comment on the "well regulated" part of the Second Amendment.

Speaking of trolls, the alt right penchant for calling others names that apply to them continues

you can. its just pricey.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

tell us about the fully automatic weapons you can go buy right now.

It is rare to own fully automatic firearms in the USA:

As a private citizen (without an FFL) you can only buy an old machine gun (over 35 years old), it’ll likely cost north of $15,000, and you’ll have to wait around a year for the transfer via an ATF Form 4.

A private citizen can lawfully own a machine gun only if they are not a “prohibit person” which is a class of person defined under federal law who is not allowed to possess firearms nor ammunition (not just full-auto machine guns). The category “prohibited person” includes anyone who:
is a felon
has been convicted of any crime punishable by more than a year in prison(whether or not they were ever sentenced to or served a day in prison)
is under indictment for any crime punishable by more than a year in prison
is a fugitive
is an unlawful user of any controlled substance
has been adjudicated as a mental defective
has been committed to a mental institution
is an illegal alien
has a dishonorable discharge from the military
has renounced their U.S. citizenship
is the subject of a restraining order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or the child of an intimate partner, or
who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

On top of all of that the full-auto machine gun has to have been manufactured before 1986, and their relevant state law does not ban that the firearm. Many states ban them outright.

So you IF qualify(easy to not), drop 15-20k, wait a year, and your state allows them, you can finally buy one.




Why do you care about fully automatic firearms? Why even mention them? They have nothing to do with this thread or murders in America. Completely off topic. Is it because you, yet again, know nothing on the subject troll:

As of the last Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives report: there are currently well over 500,000 legally registered fully automatic weapons in the hands of civilians. Since 1934 there are only four known instances of automatic weapons used in crimes where someone was killed. In two of those instances the weapons were legally obtained, with two of them illegally used by law enforcement officers. Makes it hard to claim they are a threat to public safety, doesn’t it?

Fully automatic firearms are literally safer than a McDonalds hamburger wrapper.





Here is some data for you to pour over. You know, the facts: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/res...ass-shootings/

Sources
(1) Zawitz, Marianne W. “Guns Used in Crime.” July 1995. PDF file. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

(2) Shafer, Ronald G. “They Were Killers with Submachine Guns. Then the President Went after Their Weapons.” The Washington Post, WP Company, 9 Aug. 2019, http://www.washingtonpost.com/histor...their-weapons/.

(3) Vicory, Justin. “Fully Automatic Weapons Used to Shoot Madison County Deputies Called ‘Extremely Rare’.” Ledger, Mississippi Clarion Ledger, 11 Sept. 2019, http://www.clarionledger.com/story/n...rt/2262741001/.

(4) “Machine Guns Used in Crimes, Post-NFA.” The Zelman Partisans, zelmanpartisans.com/?page_id=42394.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Sorry, I broke my own word. I just find this conversation so intriguing.

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

People who are for gun control aren't really anti guns themselves
They're actually pro gun, but just for certain people.
Because those people need guns to take away other people's guns
I will give up my guns when ALL guns are banned
That means the police won't need guns right? I mean once you ban guns, no one will have them right??

I'm definitely not anti-gun. And I don't know what the answer is when people, myself included, say "reasonable restrictions." There has to be a middle ground, we don't take this all or nothing with anything else.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Interesting points, and I don't disagree. For the segment that is calling for the banning of all guns……..but is okay with only the police having guns…….sets up the population (..criminals exempted, naturally) for being in a really bad position if a police state is ever enacted.

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, I have no problem with LEO's having weapons. I just wish there was more focus on de-escalation and more education.

In the US, the average officer isn't required to have a 4-year degree in criminology. In fact, in most municipalities, most LEOs have 1/3rd the training as someone who cuts hair. Being 21, no felonies, and a GED...that's the entrance requirements. Granted, my hometown of Tulsa, does require a 4-year degree, but that isn't typical.

Doesn't that seem bizarre, that someone who can use lethal force, and we can see from YouTube videos don't understand it's legal to record video in public spaces, requires less training than someone who cuts your hair?

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

If that's true, tell us about the fully automatic weapons you can go buy right now. Or tell us about the successful challenges to the assault weapons ban that was in force of 1995 to 2005.

Please comment on the "well regulated" part of the Second Amendment.

Speaking of trolls, the alt right penchant for calling others names that apply to them continues

Well, you have to have an FFL to buy an automatic weapon and they are prohibitively expensive. And then we get back to criminals aren't doing things legally. And we know you can modify ARs to be fully auto.

But most mass shootings are committed with legally purchased/acquired weapons.

As for well regulated, again I don't pretend to know the best option, but I think it's worth discussing. Would you prefer an Israeli model?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

you can. its just pricey.

Shhhhh! Don't tell him our little secret. I mean…..


…let him keep thinking they are completely inaccessible. I have access to fully automatic weapons and grenade launchers. My friends paid the tab(s), so they have the best toys.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Fully automatic firearms are literally safer than a McDonalds hamburger wrapper.

Interesting statement and easily countered. Imagine how many people would be dead in mass public shootings if fully automatic guns were as readily available as semi auto AR-15 style rifles.

You know full well that if fully auto or even burst-fire functions had no restrictions, everyone would be buying them.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

If that's true, tell us about the fully automatic weapons you can go buy right now. Or tell us about the successful challenges to the assault weapons ban that was in force of 1995 to 2005.

Please comment on the "well regulated" part of the Second Amendment.

Speaking of trolls, the alt right penchant for calling others names that apply to them continues

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

notice there are commas ? means those sentences are not dependent
a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state COMMA
2nd statement is the ight of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
those are mutually exclusive
you don't need the people's right to be armed as necessary to the security of a free state, you need a well regulated militia

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Interesting statement and easily countered. Imagine how many people would be dead in mass public shootings if fully automatic guns were as readily available as semi auto AR-15 style rifles.

You know full well that if fully auto or even burst-fire functions had no restrictions, everyone would be buying them.

Flawed rationale.

[ezaircon4jc]

The Marines dumped full auto in Viet Nam. Turns out they were emptying their magazines in a couple of seconds. Recoil also made subsequent shots rise, missing any targets. They now have a 3-shot burst. Full auto is grossly ineffective at anything other than punching holes in the air.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

The Marines dumped full auto in Viet Nam. Turns out they were emptying their magazines in a couple of seconds. Recoil also made subsequent shots rise, missing any targets. They now have a 3-shot burst. Full auto is grossly ineffective at anything other than punching holes in the air.

He probably doesn't even comprehend what you're saying/describing.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

notice there are commas ? means those sentences are not dependent
a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state COMMA
2nd statement is the ight of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
those are mutually exclusive
you don't need the people's right to be armed as necessary to the security of a free state, you need a well regulated militia

But then they come back with, they only meant muskets!!! Which is 100% false. You could literally own a cannon in your front yard or a warship in those times. Regardless, they are not going anywhere so deal.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

He probably doesn't even comprehend what you're saying/describing.

The troll only hears what he wants to hear.

[Sedan_Clan]

This homeowner was lucky (…despite "choosing" to be a prey to these savages). He's lucky that criminal wasn't very proficient and watched too much television. Did you notice how he dipped the muzzle of the gun as he anticipated the gun to fire?!?! Yep! Amateur!


https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cge8h...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

This homeowner was lucky (…despite "choosing" to be a prey to these savages). He's lucky that criminal wasn't very proficient and watched too much television. Did you notice how he dipped the muzzle of the gun as he anticipated the gun to fire?!?! Yep! Amateur!


https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cge8h...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Must be difficult for you living in so much fear.