First 2022 Regulations F1 car revealed

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
The picture from the RB18-B is the first picture from a 2022 car where the front wing and car sits low enough to create the well known ground-effect ..

The Mercedes W13 certainly needed 10-15 cm drop , most road trucks are sitting lower !
This can't be the real W13 suspension setup , the thing had the ride-height from a German old-timer Taxi car !

I’m presuming that’s a joke or you don’t have a clue what ground effect is and how the front wing can help or hinder it. I’m genuinely staggered that someone that posts so much about F1 gets it wrong so often.

[Killed by Death]

Ferrari engine in the Alfa sounds pretty mean. Best I've heard so far.

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=Killed by Death;28609066]Meanwhile, the Redneck 500 is today

That gap in the fencing caught the front of the car and ripped the PU out,NASCAR is exciting but extremely risky. Good the driver walked away.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Ferrari engine in the Alfa sounds pretty mean. Best I've heard so far.

I'm thinking with those enclosed embellished wheels that help to speed airflow across the face won't be able to dispel brake heat very much with the small round vent holes.

[NYG]

I have a feeling that a lot of effort is going to be put into manipulating the new design to generate more dirty air than it should.

All I know is that if Redbull-Porsche and McLaren-Audi happens in a few years, it's OVER for every other team not named Ferrari.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Could be ugly is quickest

Then alpine is the winner for 2022

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I’m presuming that’s a joke or you don’t have a clue what ground effect is and how the front wing can help or hinder it. I’m genuinely staggered that someone that posts so much about F1 gets it wrong so often.

BS !

We'll see that March 20 at Bahrein how much the Mercedes W13 will be dropped ...

Probably you didn't noticed how much HAM was struggling to keep the (fake) W13 on track ..

At 300 km/h the car would be airborne with such a high front wing setup !

#FakeW13

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by NYG

I have a feeling that a lot of effort is going to be put into manipulating the new design to generate more dirty air than it should.

All I know is that if Redbull-Porsche and McLaren-Audi happens in a few years, it's OVER for every other team not named Ferrari.

Exactly !
Porsche knocked more than once in 2021 on the Red Bull office door ...

It will happen in '2025 and it looks very promising with the advanced Porsche/Rimac-EV technology ...

Please let it come ASAP !

#RedBullPorsche

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The height from the Mercedes suspension and front-wing are looking horrible !
(Don't try this at home)

Honestly .For a moment I thought It's a Mercedes dozer !

I really wonder who can't see this ? A 'cat won't die under this car !

1) the lower the wing is the better the low pressure zone will be under it due to the venturi effect. This will optimize the wing if you go lower, a higher wing doesn't mean it pushes the car up like you stated earlier but rather it doesn't work as effectively. But with a lower wing you block alot of the air from the floor tunnels, so you must balance the two. Since the front wing doesn't produce alot of down force this year due to the regulations about the end plates a higher front wing is most likely the correct development path because you want to sacrifice the front wing for more air flow to the underbody tunnels. F1 almost removed the front wing all together this year but didn't.

So maybe redbull messed up the regulations completely, or you are not able to see the true height of the wing.

You should watch scarbs and Kyle talk about this....

2) ride height is mandated and is the same as last year. The floor just changed so cars look lower than they really are. But the plank is the same height from the road as last year.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

1) the lower the wing is the better the low pressure zone will be under it due to the venturi effect. This will optimize the wing if you go lower, a higher wing doesn't mean it pushes the car up like you stated earlier but rather it doesn't work as effectively. But with a lower wing you block alot of the air from the floor tunnels, so you must balance the two. Since the front wing doesn't produce alot of down force this year due to the regulations about the end plates a higher front wing is most likely the correct development path because you want to sacrifice the front wing for more air flow to the underbody tunnels. F1 almost removed the front wing all together this year but didn't.

So maybe redbull messed up the regulations completely, or you are not able to see the true height of the wing.

You should watch scarbs and Kyle talk about this....

2) ride height is mandated and is the same as last year. The floor just changed so cars look lower than they really are. But the plank is the same height from the road as last year.

Right , about the Venturi-Effect like I said yesterday ...But like the W13 front wing ! No way ....

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I'm no aerodynamicist but fear simpler and slimmer may be the way to go. It looks like MB & RB are in that camp. Looking head on, the Ferrari has A LOT of surface area to push through the wind compared to others.

Plus, Ferrari hasn't produced a decent engine since the beginning of the Turbo Hybrid Era. They have also show an inability to adapt. As I've said before, MB blazed a path with the split turbo and Ferrari never followed. RB and Honda finally did and almost caught MB in terms of power.

We will see soon enough.

With so little testing I wonder if any team can afford to sandbag? They may have to show their hand straight away.

Body I'm not too concerned, I think Ferrari has an interesting concept.


Engine I'm skeptical because they don't seem to want to adapt. But fuel wise I'm sure shell did a good job because shell is brilliant with fluid engineering creating GTL technology for oil as a result with their Ferrari partnership. I personally use GTL (gas to liquid) based oil in my m2 (Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 which is made by shell as shell owns Pennzoil).

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Right , about the Venturi-Effect like I said yesterday ...But like the W13 front wing ! No way ....

That's about the same as the amr22 and f1-75.

Mercedes is just really optimizing the floor at the expense of the front wing. The front wing still produced down force but it's just compromised in favor for the floor.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Ough that's cruel my friend ..but still our friend f87 is convinced it could be the right way to go for them

Kyle seems to think so as well - a PhD aerodynamicist who worked in F1.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by NYG

All I know is that if Redbull-Porsche and McLaren-Audi happens in a few years, it's OVER for every other team not named Ferrari.

Toyota spent over £1Bn trying to conquer F1 and others have tried the same BMW for example. It’s a VERY expensive game to enter. They are waiting for the new engine regs to come in so likely will only supply an engine.

Oh and ask Honda how they found creating an F1 grade engine, hard in a word. And you mention Ferrari, people love them, they are iconic and they have MORE money than anyone and their engines and car have been average for nearly a decade.

As I say it’s not easy.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by F87source

Kyle seems to think so as well - a PhD aerodynamicist who worked in F1.

I think it’s brilliant you’re trying to educate the kids. But if you put a Redbull dog turd photo up they would still say it looks amazing and its going to win.

I’m with you, I’m an engineer and fascinated by the car, the packaging and the aero and have been fortunate to work with a few F1 teams.

But they have ONE thing on their mind, Max+Redbull, I think if he moved to Merc they would declare them the best team ever and forget everything they said. Baffles me.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

At 300 km/h the car would be airborne with such a high front wing setup !

Now I'm certain you understand nothing about F1 engineering....

You do realize that a wing will produce down force irrelevant from its height off the ground right? A front wing will still produce down force 2 m off the ground, it doesn't have to be close to the ground.... So the w13 with its high wing isn't making lift so you're just hateful to Merc when you say it's "going off the track" with its high front wing.


The reason why cars used to run low wings was because when the bottom surface of the wing was close to the ground it created a venturi effect between the wing and the track further increasing the wings performance. However this blocks alot of air to the floor, so teams realized they had to sacrifice front wing performance by raising it in order to get more air to the under floor.


If redbull is running a low wing concept they could be making a mistake, I would expect to see the rb18 wit a similar wing height to the alpha Tauri at the very least.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I think it’s brilliant you’re trying to educate the kids. But if you put a Redbull dog turd photo up they would still say it looks amazing and its going to win.

I’m with you, I’m an engineer and fascinated by the car, the packaging and the aero and have been fortunate to work with a few F1 teams.

But they have ONE thing on their mind, Max+Redbull, I think if he moved to Merc they would declare them the best team ever and forget everything they said. Baffles me.

Lol I feel you.

I am starting to think Mercs narrow body approach might be the right way to go, because imaging you have a giant Wall (side pod) between the front of the car and the back. What's the best way to get air past that wall? Cutting holes in it (undercut and over cut) or just removing the wall (narrow body). But I'm no aerodynamicist so I could be wrong.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

I’m presuming that’s a joke or you don’t have a clue what ground effect is and how the front wing can help or hinder it. I’m genuinely staggered that someone that posts so much about F1 gets it wrong so often.

+1

The front wing is like a shovel, it forces air upwards as it tries to make downforce. Why the heck would you out a massive shovel infront of your aero tunnels pushing all the clean Air out of the way, that's just stupid. You want that shovel as high and out of the way as possible hence why F1 were considering removing the front wing all together.


It's crazy how wrong m power is:

1) red bull making a flexi read wing - posts a source from an opinionated pro max news source where it even says the guy thinks redbull is making a new rear wing not. The guy didn't even have a redbull source he was just thinking, but since it's redbull m power lapped it up and spewed it like it was factual.

2) said redbull's engines have recovered all HP losses from e10, when the head engineer from Honda literally posted a video saying they were having a hard time matching last year's power output.

3) said he had engineering friends from Japan who knew Merc had a gps controlled rear suspension. Like wtf, nothing even pointed to that, it didn't even squat until speeds were high enough signifying it's not GPS controlled otherwise it would squat instantly on striaghts. Even scarbs explained how it worked due to hysteresis of the valves when proper loads were reached. Then m power laughed at the notion of valves being used. Like maybe he really is a bit slow.

4) said Merc would release a fake car. It was redbull that released 3 fakes.

5) this whole front wing debacle.

6) said that redbull made a super Newey floor, then makes fun of Merc when they push the limits and redbull seem (not confirmed yet) to be making a normal floor.


And there is so much more..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

Now I'm certain you understand nothing about F1 engineering....

You do realize that a wing will produce down force irrelevant from its height off the ground right? A front wing will still produce down force 2 m off the ground, it doesn't have to be close to the ground.... So the w13 with its high wing isn't making lift so you're just hateful to Merc when you say it's "going off the track" with its high front wing.


The reason why cars used to run low wings was because when the bottom surface of the wing was close to the ground it created a venturi effect between the wing and the track further increasing the wings performance. However this blocks alot of air to the floor, so teams realized they had to sacrifice front wing performance by raising it in order to get more air to the under floor.


If redbull is running a low wing concept they could be making a mistake, I would expect to see the rb18 wit a similar wing height to the alpha Tauri at the very least.

This is just one high concept wing, I'm sure there are many at varying heights the teams will try out.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's about the same as the amr22 and f1-75.

Mercedes is just really optimizing the floor at the expense of the front wing. The front wing still produced down force but it's just compromised in favor for the floor.

Like I posted in # 337 : • We'll see that March 20 at Bahrein how much the Mercedes W13 will be dropped .
And others as well...

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

This is just one high concept wing, I'm sure there are many at varying heights the teams will try out.

Most likely.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Like I posted in # 337 : • We'll see that March 20 at Bahrein how much the Mercedes W13 will be dropped .
And others as well...

They won't be going back to prior generations, it will still be higher off the ground. Maybe they'll go higher, maybe they'll go a but lower, maybe they'll stay the same. Regardless a front wing isn't producing lift at any height.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by F87source

Lol I feel you.

I am starting to think Mercs narrow body approach might be the right way to go, because imaging you have a giant Wall (side pod) between the front of the car and the back. What's the best way to get air past that wall? Cutting holes in it (undercut and over cut) or just removing the wall (narrow body). But I'm no aerodynamicist so I could be wrong.

Yeah anything that has to move the air creates an element of drag, that’s why some cars are quick on some circuits and not on others for example, amongst many other factors. Some do for for low drag others higher drag and they have a more powerful engine.

I think several of the cars are going to have plenty of new parts before we get to the first race. I’d like to see them ALL, yes you Redbull as well on a circuit in a testing trim first and see what we have.

But agree I think they have quite a slick approach. Have you seen the view that the Ferrari will be 25kg heavier on a wet race with the side pots full of water.