992 Porsche 911 Turbo S

[x622]

Originally Posted by gonzo

^
Some will think you're crazy. I see selling already as a bit of a commonality with the turbo. Probably got your money back and possibly a gain though.

Thinking you may enjoy more 'analogness'.

Welp...pics up the Mac!
Njoy.

It was boring. There I said it. The way it made power, the way it shifted, it was just boring. It turned amazing, don't get me wrong, but it lacked all sensation when driving it otherwise and the exhaust note sounded like a boat, even with a pricy akrapovic system. It drove like a tesla, very fast yes, but ultimately boring. I was just about to do big turbos and blah blah blah to it to try and get some sensation out of it, and then a friend let me borrow his 720s. I chastised him for having a shitty unreliable car and... Well I drove it for a bit. Yes I had to turn it off and turn it back on sometimes, but otherwise it was like sex. I contrasted this with some of the weird stuff with my 911, the window not rolling up completely sometimes, the random sensor complaints.. It was basically the same experience. Everyone else loved my 911 more than I did, and I think it's because they haven't lived with one for a bit. It's very capable and very very fast, and will eat anything from a dig, but that doesn't make it fun to drive.

Mac comes next week, already have ordered too many parts for it. Color is Tokyo Cyan!

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by x622

It was basically the same experience. Everyone else loved my 911 more than I did, and I think it's because they haven't lived with one for a bit. It's very capable and very very fast, and will eat anything from a dig, but that doesn't make it fun to drive.

This has been my experience with most 911s I have driven. Highly capable, but too clinical in its experience. Unless you're really pushing it, which you can't really do on most roads, it's kind of boring. So at the price point of most 911s, you really just have to want a 911. Otherwise, there's often more "exciting" alternatives (occasionally at a lower price point).

I've been able to drive a few 911s on a track, and this is where they completely make sense...tenacious grip, powerful and thrilling (often leaving you in awe of its capability).

I do think the GT Porsches is where the 911's rawness of experience is heightened. The GTs often don't make good daily drivers, but for a weekend fun car and a track toy, they are hard to beat (at or near MSRP).

The 911 Turbo at $200k plus for me only makes sense if you're driving it every day. As a weekend, fun car, there are too many alternatives (used ones as well) that make more sense in terms of pure excitement....unless all you want to do is embarrass people at stoplights.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by x622

It was boring. There I said it. The way it made power, the way it shifted, it was just boring. It turned amazing, don't get me wrong, but it lacked all sensation when driving it otherwise and the exhaust note sounded like a boat, even with a pricy akrapovic system. It drove like a tesla, very fast yes, but ultimately boring. I was just about to do big turbos and blah blah blah to it to try and get some sensation out of it, and then a friend let me borrow his 720s. I chastised him for having a shitty unreliable car and... Well I drove it for a bit. Yes I had to turn it off and turn it back on sometimes, but otherwise it was like sex. I contrasted this with some of the weird stuff with my 911, the window not rolling up completely sometimes, the random sensor complaints.. It was basically the same experience. Everyone else loved my 911 more than I did, and I think it's because they haven't lived with one for a bit. It's very capable and very very fast, and will eat anything from a dig, but that doesn't make it fun to drive.

Mac comes next week, already have ordered too many parts for it. Color is Tokyo Cyan!

You're not the first, nor last, owner to say it. Don't get me wrong. Stupidly capable car, but just not my glass of bourbon.
A Volcano yellow 720 was in front of me at a light several weeks ago. Dropped the window and muted TOOL. I could hear bits working in the rear. It kind of clunked into gear when he started moving, but what a sound. Even low revs sound good.

Cyan is a good choice for such a wild looking car. Good ol Supernova silver is still my favorite on any newer McLaren.

Getting it from Rancho Mirage by chance?

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by x622

It was boring. There I said it. The way it made power, the way it shifted, it was just boring. It turned amazing, don't get me wrong, but it lacked all sensation when driving it otherwise and the exhaust note sounded like a boat, even with a pricy akrapovic system. It drove like a tesla, very fast yes, but ultimately boring. I was just about to do big turbos and blah blah blah to it to try and get some sensation out of it, and then a friend let me borrow his 720s. I chastised him for having a shitty unreliable car and... Well I drove it for a bit. Yes I had to turn it off and turn it back on sometimes, but otherwise it was like sex. I contrasted this with some of the weird stuff with my 911, the window not rolling up completely sometimes, the random sensor complaints.. It was basically the same experience. Everyone else loved my 911 more than I did, and I think it's because they haven't lived with one for a bit. It's very capable and very very fast, and will eat anything from a dig, but that doesn't make it fun to drive.

Mac comes next week, already have ordered too many parts for it. Color is Tokyo Cyan!

Nothing to apologize for. My neighbor has a sweet 2023 911TT. It's ultra quick and for us enthusiasts, it's certainly in rare air. However, I've never been impressed with the interior. And of course, it will never have the curbside presence of a McLaren or even a R8 for that matter. I get it.

[Alfisti]

Y'all need a sorted 997, even a basic "S". YEs only 385 HP but boring, it is not.

[x622]

Originally Posted by gonzo

You're not the first, nor last, owner to say it. Don't get me wrong. Stupidly capable car, but just not my glass of bourbon.
A Volcano yellow 720 was in front of me at a light several weeks ago. Dropped the window and muted TOOL. I could hear bits working in the rear. It kind of clunked into gear when he started moving, but what a sound. Even low revs sound good.

Cyan is a good choice for such a wild looking car. Good ol Supernova silver is still my favorite on any newer McLaren.

Getting it from Rancho Mirage by chance?

That's the exact one! I checked out their 765LT in white they had there and it was sweet for sure but I couldn't stomach paying 100-150k over sticker for it, especially if it wasn't a spec I was in love with. They had an utterly ridiculous full green carbon one there which would be my build if I was going to order one, but I don't want to drop 900 on a car. I wasn't sure if I was going to like Tokyo cyan because it's a really hard color to capture with a camera. Check out the difference between an iPhone and Pixel 6 between the two pics I uploaded. The Rancho Mirage guys @ DEA were awesome to deal with. Probably the best experience I've ever had. No pressure, no bullshit, no games with fair prices. I can't help but recommend them.

I did consider the following as an alternative to the mac n cheese before I got it;
Hurucan STO - Terrible visibility and meh performance for the price. It's just a hurucan with a body kit. Sound is awesome, but I'd rather have an R8 since it's easier to live with
SF90 - Terrible dash and infotainment, boring power delivery, but looks sweet, these are going to depreciate HARD
Aventador SJV - Sounds like sex but is a pretty meh drive. Transmission sucks
F8 Tributo - It was just ok. I did check out one with a NASTY exhaust. sounded amazing
488 Pista - I drove two, one was a rattle trap the other was just ok
Audi R8 - If I bought one I'd spend another $200k on it to build the piss out of it and twin turbo it, which would mean I'm burning 200k in a fire basically. Couldn't do it, bad capital risk.

Stuff I didn't look at;
812 Competizone - I'd want a competizone because they look like sex and the engine is a musical instrument, but again, I don't want to sink this much money into a car and be subject to the insane depreciation as I put miles on it.
AM V12 Vantage - Didn't want a GT car, depreciation bomb, and reliability concerns

I'm after a 992 GT2 RS. I'm #2 on a list for one... We'll see if I get it. Friend sent me videos of his 3RS and it's just nasty. Looks like a whole bucket of fun.

[chassis]

Do McLarens hold value better than others? I have seen data that suggest 911s hold value as a general rule. I can imagine anything British being pretty heavy depreciators, but maybe not with McLaren?

[Alfisti]

Wheels need more black

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by chassis

Do McLarens hold value better than others? I have seen data that suggest 911s hold value as a general rule. I can imagine anything British being pretty heavy depreciators, but maybe not with McLaren?

Horrible depreciation, look at a MP4 or 650S. Once they're out of warranty people are terrified of the repair/service costs. I live in a major area and there's no McLaren dealer here either, and as far as I know no indy shops that work on them other than standard oil change type stuff. That's a resale killer when the entire market for buyers has to live near a dealer, and knowing you're going to have to pay dealer prices for everything.

911's hold their value better than any other car in the long run, aside from limited production/one-off/special edition cars.

Anything British and relatively new is going to get obliterated on depreciation.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Y'all need a sorted 997, even a basic "S". YEs only 385 HP but boring, it is not.

Yep, buy a cheaper Porsche that doesn't have a sledgehammer motor and mountains of refinement, but rather one you have to wring out, can easily hustle at high limits, and you can actually feel the car, the drivetrain, chassis, etc.

- Lowly 2011 Cayman Base 265hp 6MT owner

[Alfisti]

Truth be told it's a bit of an ox cart on rough roads but on a decent bit of tarmac..... WHAT A CAR to drive.

[///MFrankie]

Originally Posted by x622

It was boring. There I said it. The way it made power, the way it shifted, it was just boring. It turned amazing, don't get me wrong, but it lacked all sensation when driving it otherwise and the exhaust note sounded like a boat, even with a pricy akrapovic system. It drove like a tesla, very fast yes, but ultimately boring. I was just about to do big turbos and blah blah blah to it to try and get some sensation out of it, and then a friend let me borrow his 720s. I chastised him for having a shitty unreliable car and... Well I drove it for a bit. Yes I had to turn it off and turn it back on sometimes, but otherwise it was like sex. I contrasted this with some of the weird stuff with my 911, the window not rolling up completely sometimes, the random sensor complaints.. It was basically the same experience. Everyone else loved my 911 more than I did, and I think it's because they haven't lived with one for a bit. It's very capable and very very fast, and will eat anything from a dig, but that doesn't make it fun to drive.

Mac comes next week, already have ordered too many parts for it. Color is Tokyo Cyan!

Can you elaborate on the way it made power? I have heard they are brutally quick and addictive. What was it you didn't like?

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Horrible depreciation, look at a MP4 or 650S. Once they're out of warranty people are terrified of the repair/service costs. I live in a major area and there's no McLaren dealer here either, and as far as I know no indy shops that work on them other than standard oil change type stuff. That's a resale killer when the entire market for buyers has to live near a dealer, and knowing you're going to have to pay dealer prices for everything.

911's hold their value better than any other car in the long run, aside from limited production/one-off/special edition cars.

Anything British and relatively new is going to get obliterated on depreciation.

Spot on.

[GTS Daddy]

Originally Posted by x622

Hurucan STO - Terrible visibility and meh performance for the price. It's just a hurucan with a body kit. Sound is awesome, but I'd rather have an R8 since it's easier to live with
SF90 - Terrible dash and infotainment, boring power delivery, but looks sweet, these are going to depreciate HARD
Aventador SJV - Sounds like sex but is a pretty meh drive. Transmission sucks
F8 Tributo - It was just ok. I did check out one with a NASTY exhaust. sounded amazing
488 Pista - I drove two, one was a rattle trap the other was just ok
Audi R8 - If I bought one I'd spend another $200k on it to build the piss out of it and twin turbo it, which would mean I'm burning 200k in a fire basically. Couldn't do it, bad capital risk.

Stuff I didn't look at;
812 Competizone - I'd want a competizone because they look like sex and the engine is a musical instrument, but again, I don't want to sink this much money into a car and be subject to the insane depreciation as I put miles on it.
AM V12 Vantage - Didn't want a GT car, depreciation bomb, and reliability concerns

I'm after a 992 GT2 RS. I'm #2 on a list for one... We'll see if I get it. Friend sent me videos of his 3RS and it's just nasty. Looks like a whole bucket of fun.

I'll chime in as someone with experience with some of these on your list.

Hurucan STO - Sure the visibility sucks, but its so bonkers of a car to drive/experience in person. People loose their shit around it! A real exotic supercar!
SF90 - I agree with every negative sentiment you have mentioned.
Aventador SVJ - Sounds AND looks like sex. Not sure about that "meh" drive comment as I thought it was quite the experience. Lotsa money though and yes, transmission is down compared to pcar and the Mac's.
F8 Tributo - Wish I had more to say about this. No experience.
488 Pista - Not a fan, uncomfortable seats, fast as f*$k, would rather have a Speciale for that special, final NA Ferrari V8 feeling.
Audi R8 - Can't stand these and I have no idea why people even like them except for being the budget Huracan. Awful seating position, meh styling since they lost the side-blade, and not very engaging to drive. I would take nearly ANY Huracan over ANY R8.
812 Competezione- Have only experienced the Superfast and WHAT A MOTOR! Yes, its more of a GT car but F-me, that motor!

I happen to be lucky enough to have a 1 degree of separation to Andy at Porsche GT. On occasion, little nuggets of joy get trickled down to me. He shared with one of my "well-to-do" customers that out of every GT pcar from the past decade, the GT4RS is hands down the most engaging driver's car they have made! He simply LOVES it! I have also heard that the 992.2 GT2RS will be a certifiable weapon on a level of straight-line performance with upcoming cars like the Revuelto.

As a suggestion, I have yet to drive the new 296 GTB, but have only heard amazing things.

Fortunate to be a person in your position to be able to consider such iconic machines!

[dgoldenz]

If you can afford an 812 Comp that’s gotta be the only choice here. I’d be surprised if they ever sell for less than MSRP regardless of mileage. Look at how much the F12 TDF market has gone up the last few years.

[x622]

Originally Posted by GTS Daddy

I'll chime in as someone with experience with some of these on your list.

Hurucan STO - Sure the visibility sucks, but its so bonkers of a car to drive/experience in person. People loose their shit around it! A real exotic supercar!
SF90 - I agree with every negative sentiment you have mentioned.
Aventador SVJ - Sounds AND looks like sex. Not sure about that "meh" drive comment as I thought it was quite the experience. Lotsa money though and yes, transmission is down compared to pcar and the Mac's.
F8 Tributo - Wish I had more to say about this. No experience.
488 Pista - Not a fan, uncomfortable seats, fast as f*$k, would rather have a Speciale for that special, final NA Ferrari V8 feeling.
Audi R8 - Can't stand these and I have no idea why people even like them except for being the budget Huracan. Awful seating position, meh styling since they lost the side-blade, and not very engaging to drive. I would take nearly ANY Huracan over ANY R8.
812 Competezione- Have only experienced the Superfast and WHAT A MOTOR! Yes, its more of a GT car but F-me, that motor!

I happen to be lucky enough to have a 1 degree of separation to Andy at Porsche GT. On occasion, little nuggets of joy get trickled down to me. He shared with one of my "well-to-do" customers that out of every GT pcar from the past decade, the GT4RS is hands down the most engaging driver's car they have made! He simply LOVES it! I have also heard that the 992.2 GT2RS will be a certifiable weapon on a level of straight-line performance with upcoming cars like the Revuelto.

As a suggestion, I have yet to drive the new 296 GTB, but have only heard amazing things.

Fortunate to be a person in your position to be able to consider such iconic machines!

They had a STO that would be how I'd order it. Check it out and you'll see why. I sat in it and it was cool but all the hurucans I've been in aren't awesome to drive.
https://www.lamborghiniranchomirage....UA6ZX0PLA22892


The SVJ transmission I drove sucked! It was really jerky and felt worse than a built GTR - I guess I just expect more for 6-700 bones. I also didn't like that I had to physically move the hard top to the trunk, I think the Mclaren roof panel integration is much cleaner. Noise on this was superior to everything except the 812

The sf90 was cool, but I think that digital dash and everything else in it is going to age like milk. As for the looks, I still think a mclaren looks more like a spaceship than the sf90. Because it's the first hybrid I think this car represents the worst on the list in terms of capital risk. I think I'm going to lose 40-50k on the 720s, yes sure, but I think I'd lose even more on this car.

488 pista - which seats did you sit in? I sat in the ones that had the horizontal supports, I don't think they were the race buckets. Really not bad at all. I think if the right one popped up at the right price I'd add this one to the collection

812 Comp - Dude I would love to have one, but they're a billion dollars. I specifically drove the superfast with the droptop and similar seats to what were in the Pista. This thing sounded amazing. I know it had some kind of exhaust on it (I think?). Best exhaust out of any car I've ever driven


As to why my 911 was boring

It's the way it makes power. Even my M5 CS was more engaging and fun than the 911. I haven't driven the 911 for a few weeks since we were returning it back to stock and got to put a few more miles on it taking it home to put glass and swap the stock wheels on it. After this drive I understood why it wasn't the right car for me;

- It's smoother and more comfortable than my X5M, even in sport+, I want something more raw that feels like I have to tame it and respect it
- Because it's so smooth and "refined" you don't get any sensation of speed or any sort of fun to drive unless you're going 2-3x the speed limit and in a corner
- The power band is very linear and not exciting, my biggest pet peeve since it makes it feel like an electric car. It does not make you want to rip through gears, it's just that you go faster. No drama.
- Factory exhaust is way too quiet even with the sport package with the valves open
- God forbid you get in traffic with this, you have all the sauce but nowhere to use it, it makes for a nervous ride whereas the X5M is just a couch
- With an exhaust, it sounds like a boat. Since it doesn't sound amazing I actually think the stock sport exhaust with HFC's would of been a better choice than the akrapovic I put on here.

If I was looking for a daily driver sports car, it would be this car, but probably without the buckets and just the 18 ways. It's supremely comfortable, I'll say that.

[Alfisti]

This is everyone's issue witht he 992. It started with the 991, this 911 is a GT thing and the 992 has moved it up (down?) a notch. TBH, once the entire range got blowers, killed it for me.

A great DD is the 991.1 GTS. "Only" 430 HP but NA, no blowers, looks wonderful, compliant ride, goes hard, sounds great.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

This is everyone's issue witht he 992. It started with the 991, this 911 is a GT thing and the 992 has moved it up (down?) a notch. TBH, once the entire range got blowers, killed it for me.

A great DD is the 991.1 GTS. "Only" 430 HP but NA, no blowers, looks wonderful, compliant ride, goes hard, sounds great.

By "blowers" do you mean turbos?

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

This is everyone's issue witht he 992. It started with the 991, this 911 is a GT thing and the 992 has moved it up (down?) a notch. TBH, once the entire range got blowers, killed it for me.

A great DD is the 991.1 GTS. "Only" 430 HP but NA, no blowers, looks wonderful, compliant ride, goes hard, sounds great.

As a 991.1 GTS owner, I concur. Such a great car.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by chassis

By "blowers" do you mean turbos?

Yeah, i know blowers are superchargers but you get the drift. Lost their soul when they went all turbo.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Yeah, i know blowers are superchargers but you get the drift. Lost their soul when they went all turbo.

Thanks. What new 2022-2024 model year fun (non-daily) car would you buy 10 years from now, hypothetically speaking? Iow in 10 years’ time what would take the place of your 911 if that were to be necessary?

[Alfisti]

Easy, assuming I don't want a cab it's the GT350. I know it's discontinued but close enough. Otherwise, damn.....good question. Maybe the Lotus? Supercharged but close enough I guess? I dunno, I think the difficulty in answering this question is why analog cars from 15 years ago are so mind bendingly expensive. I am seeing 997.2 Carrera S coupes (manual) with low miles surpass 6 figures here in Canada, that is a WILD price. I know a 997.1, with that time bomb engine, sold for $86K CDN plus taxes. It was in superb shape etc but it's just an "S".