Navy thread

[Llarry]

One more Chinese navy helicopter: The Harbin Z-20F is the next-generation naval helicopter. If you think it looks like a Sikorsky S-70 (H-60) you are correct. It is not, however, an exact copy: It has a five-blade rotor instead of the four-blade of the H-60. Expect to see the Z-20 replace the Z-9 on PLAN ships in the coming years.

Weapons

Many of the weapons used by the Chinese navy are derivatives of Russian items, in some cases with improvements. The 130mm and 76mm guns are examples (not pictured). Some appear to be reverse-engineered Western weapons.

-- The HHQ-9 is a long-range SAM launched from a vertical tube. It has a range of 250-300 km.

-- The HHQ-10 is a short-range last-ditch SAM that resembles the U.S. Navy's Rolling-airframe Missile (RAM) and is launched from a similar launcher.

-- The HH/PJ-12 is a 30mm close-in weapon system that resembles the Dutch Goalkeeper gun, but with more barrels.

-- The YJ-18 is an anti-ship cruise missile; although it has a subsonic cruise speed, it accelerates to supersonic speed for the terminal phase of the attack. The range is up to 290 nautical miles (nm).

-- The YJ-83 is a smaller subsonic anti-ship cruise missile with a maximum range of 180 km.

-- The CJ-10 is a land-attack subsonic cruise missile with a range of over 800 nm. It resembles the American Tomahawk cruise missile.

-- The CY-5 (not pictured) is a rocket-booster torpedo that has a range in the air of 30 km for standoff attack against a submarine. The torpedo drops into the water after booster burnout then begins the acoustic hunt for a submerged target. It resembles the American ASROC.

[Llarry]

World War II was truly a monumental period of world history.

For one thing, the largest invasion fleet in human history assembled in the late spring of 1944 to begin the Allied invasion of France. At the very same time a huge invasion fleet assembled halfway around the world to begin the invasion of the Japanese-held Marianas.

A few months later, they did it all again: The Allied invasion of Southern France and the invasion of the Philippines.

This photo shows the fleet assembling for the invasion of the Philippines in October of 1944. The scale is amazing: There are countless aircraft carriers, cruisers, attack transports, etc., down there.

The Germans and Japanese put up a stout defense, but the sheer weight of steel involved in these invasions was unstoppable.

[Llarry]

Having covered the Chinese navy, I guess the logical sequel would be the Russian Navy. The Russian Navy is of course the successor to the Soviet Navy, which was a very formidable force during the Cold War era. In recent years, as the Russian economy had faltered, the navy that Russia inherited has become much less formidable, but it can be considered a large navy nonetheless.

The Russian Navy is divided into three main geographic areas. The Northern Fleet is based in N. Europe, the Black Sea Fleet in the Black Sea (in the news with the ongoing war in Ukraine), and the Pacific Fleet is based in the Vladivostok area and the Kamchatka Peninsula in the Russian Far East.

The Russian Navy is particularly strong in submarines. There are 15 nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines currently active: eight old Delta class boats and seven newer Borey units. These constitute a significant part of the Russian strategic nuclear force.

The Soviet Navy emphasized cruise missile submarines in order to attack U.S. Navy aircraft carriers. Ten boats are active: Six old Oscar II boats and 4 new Yasen boats. All are nuclear-powered and continue to emphasize anti-ship weapons.

There are a total of eight nuclear-powered attack submarines in service, all designed in the 1980s Soviet era. Four are Sierra-class boats, which have hulls made of titanium and are primarily tasked with attacking submarines. The Soviet titanium boats were a sensation in Western intelligence circles when first observed, with very high performance. The other four SSNs are later Akula (steel) class, also built late in the Cold War era. The large pods above the stern fin on the boats are for towed sonar arrays.

The Soviet/Russian safety record in nuclear submarines is unfortunate, with several serious accidents or losses. The other thing that can be said of Russian Navy ships in general is that they spend relatively little time at sea and are often in poor material condition. The numbers of active ships may be misleading as fewer are effective,

The Russian Navy has a large number of conventional Diesel-electric submarines, all of the 1980s-on Kilo class. 65 Kilos are in service. Others have been exported.

A single aircraft carrier is active; its sibling was sold to China and is active in the PLA Navy. The carrier is currently inactive under repair and is forecast to resume operations next year. Though large, it is conventionally powered and does not have catapults, relying instead on a ski jump to launch high-performance Su-33 Flanker fighters. It also embarks helicopters.

A major fleet asset is the battlecruiser Admiral Nakhimov, which is the largest cruiser constructed by any navy. The Nakhimov has a hybrid nuclear/steam propulsion plant, with the nuclear portion good for 20 knots, and the boilers/steam turbines used to boost speed to 30+ knots as required. As befits a 28,000-ton behemoth, it is very heavily armed with missiles and carries three helicopters. It embarks a crew of over 700.

There are two other smaller cruisers in the fleet (originally three; one sunk by Ukraine) that displace over 12,000 tons and are also heavily armed. One each are in the Northern and Pacific Fleets.

There are a total of ten missile destroyers of two classes in service. Again, both date from the Soviet era. Four of the larger Sovremenny class were sold and are active in the PLA Navy.

The Russian Navy has a total of seven missile frigates: Five are older and two are large new frigates built in the last five years, with more on the way.

In common with the Cold War Soviet Navy, the Russian Navy has a large number of corvettes. 20 are antisubmarine-oriented, 17 are antiship missile ships; these all displace around 1,000 tons. Four of the missile corvettes are relatively new. There are also eight newer and larger multipurpose corvettes (or small frigates) of 2,200 tons.

The Russian Navy is deficient in the underway replenishment ships needed for prolonged operations at sea but has older oilers which can refuel the fleet. Befitting their geography, the Navy has seven icebreakers in operation.

The Sukhoi SU-33 Flankers operating from the aircraft carrier were built in very limited numbers -- about 22 were built, so when at-sea air operations are conducted, basically all the aircraft are embarked. Helicopters are much more numerous and embarked on combatant ships down to frigate size. The standard is the Kamov Ka-25 Helix, first flown in 1973, which operates in both antisubmarine and utility versions.

During the Soviet era, the Navy had a large land-based aviation force, including air defense interceptors and bombers carrying antiship missiles. These were all transferred to the Russian Air Force. There are two land-based Navy aircraft still active: The Ilyushin Il-38 patrol aircraft and the Tupolev Tu-142 Bear maritime version of the Tu-95. The Tu-142 is flown in two versions: The Tu-142MK long-range patrol/ASW aircraft and the Tu-142MR aircraft which is tasked with relaying communications to the strategic missile submarines in the event of nuclear war. (The odd pod above the Il-38 cockpit is an ELINT installation).

As seen by the damage that Ukraine has been able to inflict on the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the Russian Navy appears to be woefully deficient in combat readiness. I doubt that the Northern or Pacific Fleets are in much better shape.

[Llarry]

36 years ago in the Indian Ocean -- Battle Group Alfa centered around two old warships: The aircraft carrier USS Midway and an Iowa class battleship, accompanied by some then-modern AEGIS cruisers and other escorts, plus underway replenishment ships.

I suspect that ship COs and officers of the deck sweat bullets for one of these photo opportunities... what if one of the ships in the center has some kind of steering or other malfunction?

Still, kind of a cool photo. Almost every ship in this photo is now retired or due for retirement.

[Boomer 2019]

That is crazy tight even for a photo op. Notice how slowly they are going. Hell, I'll bet the BB and the Midway are barely maintaining steerageway. Normally the units wouldn't be any closer than about a mile from each other except for plane guard and unrep ops.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Having covered the Chinese navy, I guess the logical sequel would be the Russian Navy. The Russian Navy is of course the successor to the Soviet Navy, which was a very formidable force during the Cold War era. In recent years, as the Russian economy had faltered, the navy that Russia inherited has become much less formidable, but it can be considered a large navy nonetheless.

The Russian Navy is divided into three main geographic areas. The Northern Fleet is based in N. Europe, the Black Sea Fleet in the Black Sea (in the news with the ongoing war in Ukraine), and the Pacific Fleet is based in the Vladivostok area and the Kamchatka Peninsula in the Russian Far East.

The Russian Navy is particularly strong in submarines. There are 15 nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines currently active: eight old Delta class boats and seven newer Borey units. These constitute a significant part of the Russian strategic nuclear force.

The Soviet Navy emphasized cruise missile submarines in order to attack U.S. Navy aircraft carriers. Ten boats are active: Six old Oscar II boats and 4 new Yasen boats. All are nuclear-powered and continue to emphasize anti-ship weapons.

There are a total of eight nuclear-powered attack submarines in service, all designed in the 1980s Soviet era. Four are Sierra-class boats, which have hulls made of titanium and are primarily tasked with attacking submarines. The Soviet titanium boats were a sensation in Western intelligence circles when first observed, with very high performance. The other four SSNs are later Akula (steel) class, also built late in the Cold War era. The large pods above the stern fin on the boats are for towed sonar arrays.

The Soviet/Russian safety record in nuclear submarines is unfortunate, with several serious accidents or losses. The other thing that can be said of Russian Navy ships in general is that they spend relatively little time at sea and are often in poor material condition. The numbers of active ships may be misleading as fewer are effective,

The Russian Navy has a large number of conventional Diesel-electric submarines, all of the 1980s-on Kilo class. 65 Kilos are in service. Others have been exported.

A single aircraft carrier is active; its sibling was sold to China and is active in the PLA Navy. The carrier is currently inactive under repair and is forecast to resume operations next year. Though large, it is conventionally powered and does not have catapults, relying instead on a ski jump to launch high-performance Su-33 Flanker fighters. It also embarks helicopters.

A major fleet asset is the battlecruiser Admiral Nakhimov, which is the largest cruiser constructed by any navy. The Nakhimov has a hybrid nuclear/steam propulsion plant, with the nuclear portion good for 20 knots, and the boilers/steam turbines used to boost speed to 30+ knots as required. As befits a 28,000-ton behemoth, it is very heavily armed with missiles and carries three helicopters. It embarks a crew of over 700.

There are two other smaller cruisers in the fleet (originally three; one sunk by Ukraine) that displace over 12,000 tons and are also heavily armed. One each are in the Northern and Pacific Fleets.

There are a total of ten missile destroyers of two classes in service. Again, both date from the Soviet era. Four of the larger Sovremenny class were sold and are active in the PLA Navy.

The Russian Navy has a total of seven missile frigates: Five are older and two are large new frigates built in the last five years, with more on the way.

In common with the Cold War Soviet Navy, the Russian Navy has a large number of corvettes. 20 are antisubmarine-oriented, 17 are antiship missile ships; these all displace around 1,000 tons. Four of the missile corvettes are relatively new. There are also eight newer and larger multipurpose corvettes (or small frigates) of 2,200 tons.

The Russian Navy is deficient in the underway replenishment ships needed for prolonged operations at sea but has older oilers which can refuel the fleet. Befitting their geography, the Navy has seven icebreakers in operation.

The Sukhoi SU-33 Flankers operating from the aircraft carrier were built in very limited numbers -- about 22 were built, so when at-sea air operations are conducted, basically all the aircraft are embarked. Helicopters are much more numerous and embarked on combatant ships down to frigate size. The standard is the Kamov Ka-25 Helix, first flown in 1973, which operates in both antisubmarine and utility versions.

During the Soviet era, the Navy had a large land-based aviation force, including air defense interceptors and bombers carrying antiship missiles. These were all transferred to the Russian Air Force. There are two land-based Navy aircraft still active: The Ilyushin Il-38 patrol aircraft and the Tupolev Tu-142 Bear maritime version of the Tu-95. The Tu-142 is flown in two versions: The Tu-142MK long-range patrol/ASW aircraft and the Tu-142MR aircraft which is tasked with relaying communications to the strategic missile submarines in the event of nuclear war. (The odd pod above the Il-38 cockpit is an ELINT installation).

As seen by the damage that Ukraine has been able to inflict on the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the Russian Navy appears to be woefully deficient in combat readiness. I doubt that the Northern or Pacific Fleets are in much better shape.

That single aircraft carrier passed recently through the English Channel, smoking like an old chimney from it's funnel.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

That single aircraft carrier passed recently through the English Channel, smoking like an old chimney from it's funnel.

The Midway (CV-41) was decommissioned in 1992 and now a museum. So I don't know was went through the channel as stated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

The Midway (CV-41) was decommissioned in 1992 and now a museum. So I don't know was went through the channel as stated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)

No. It was the Kuznetzov carrier group passing through the channel last Autumn on it's way to the Mediterranean.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

No. It was the Kuznetzov carrier group passing through the channel last Autumn on it's way to the Mediterranean.

Larry said it was the Midway carrier group in the picture. Anyway, I don't know much about the Navy but I will take his word for it since he's a retired Lt/Commander. Llarry any thoughts?

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

... what if one of the ships in the center has some kind of steering or other malfunction?...

We hit the oiler we were unrepping with back in the day (late 70's). They (I don't remember which oiler it was) lost their steering and came over and smacked us. The collision wrecked havoc with their helipad. It was a sideswipe and we didn't sustain much damage.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Larry said it was the Midway carrier group in the picture. Anyway, I don't know much about the Navy but I will take his word for it since he's a retired Lt/Commander. Llarry any thoughts?

I've been misquoted. Rick was talking about that old Russki aircraft carrier. I posted a much older photo (1987) of the USS Midway et al in the Indian Ocean. All is good.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Llarry

I've been misquoted. Rick was talking about that old Russki aircraft carrier. I posted a much older photo (1987) of the USS Midway et al in the Indian Ocean. All is good.

Glad it's sorted Llarry, I was referring to the Admiral Kuznetzov carrier with hull painted id 063.

[Llarry]

Speaking of aircraft carriers, here's one that usually does not come to mind: The Thai Navy purchased a Spanish-built small carrier along with preowned ex-Spanish Navy AV-8S Matador (first-generation Harrier) aircraft to fly from it. The AV-8Ss succumbed to age years ago, but the HTMS Chakri Naruebet remains the flagship of the Royal Thai Navy. Due to a lack of funds, it is not often active at sea. The photo is vintage.

If the Thais decided to reconstitute a jet capability, buying ex-U.S. Marine Corps retired AV-8B Harriers would be a natural, but I suspect the ship is mostly just a showpiece these days and buying and maintaining 10-20 Harriers would not be inexpensive. And those Harriers may be pretty much worn out upon retirement, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTMS_Chakri_Naruebet

[Llarry]

In December of 1929, the city of Tacoma, Washington, was in trouble. The Pacific Northwest city depended on hydroelectric power and a severe drought reduced the electricity available.

The U.S. Navy assisted Tacoma by sending the aircraft carrier USS Lexington (CV 2) to the city and using the ship's systems to provide power to the city for a period.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

I can see, after touring Wisconsin, why we went away from the big guns. Consider that each turret basically reaches to the bottom of the ship with its magazine and loading components...

Here's a cross-section of the triple 8-inch 55-caliber turret of the U.S. Navy's last heavy cruisers, which did not join the fleet until after World War II. The depth of the hull was 45 feet; the turret, like the bigger battleships probably goes all the way down.

These 8-inch 55-cal guns were the first automatic-loading 8-inchers; they used an entire shell rather than a projectile and bagged powder.

[M-technik-3]

Hope the navy is ready, Okinawa has no F15's there anymore and it will be years befor the f15ex is ready.

https://news.yahoo.com/xi-warned-bid...ycsrp_catchall

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

Hope the navy is ready, Okinawa has no F15's there anymore and it will be years befor the f15ex is ready.

https://news.yahoo.com/xi-warned-bid...ycsrp_catchall

I think there are still a few F-15Cs at Kadena, but there are also F-35As (temporarily) there to fill in the gap.

[Llarry]

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, U.S. Navy leadership and the Marines were worried about the impending retirement of the gun cruisers of the World War II era and the impact that would have on naval gunfire support for amphibious landings or in situations like Vietnam where naval gunfire was frequently used.

As a result, a "lightweight and compact" 8-inch gun was developed that could be mounted on a smaller warship, such as the Spruance class destroyers and Ticonderoga class cruisers entering the fleet in numbers.

The Mark 71 8-inch 55 caliber Major Caliber Lightweight Gun (MCLWG) was experimentally mounted on the 1950s gun destroyer USS Hull in 1975, replacing the Hull's forward 5-inch mount -- and requiring removal of some forward superstructure and the twin 3-inch mount as well. The Mk 71 MCLWG weighed 173,000 pounds compared to the original 5-inch mount's 145,000 pounds and the ship's balance was maintained.

The Hull's installation was the only one done, and in 1979 the big gun was removed and the 5-incher reinstalled, making the Mk 71 MCLWG a minor footnote in naval ordnance history.

[Boomer 2019]

Originally Posted by Llarry

36 years ago in the Indian Ocean -- Battle Group Alfa centered around two old warships: The aircraft carrier USS Midway and an Iowa class battleship, accompanied by some then-modern AEGIS cruisers and other escorts, plus underway replenishment ships.

I suspect that ship COs and officers of the deck sweat bullets for one of these photo opportunities... what if one of the ships in the center has some kind of steering or other malfunction?

Still, kind of a cool photo. Almost every ship in this photo is now retired or due for retirement.

I was curious so went looking for further info about Battle Group Alfa (Google is your friend.. sometimes), and found the USS Midway's 1980's photo gallery index. The group obviously spent quite a bit of time shooting selfies, and were intent upon getting "kissing close". Guess it was a slow day. Here is my favorite senseless pic of the bunch. By the way the BB is the USS Iowa.

[SurfcasterPE]

Brand new to the forum since I just got my 1st BMW and saw this thread and thought it’d be a good spot for my first post here.

1994-1998 USS Teddy Roosevelt. 2 Med/Persian Gulf trips and all the work ups and yard periods in between.

This pic is from September 2023. A few of the crew from our era still get together after some 25+ years. Next one is already planned for July 2024 in Newport News.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by SurfcasterPE

Brand new to the forum since I just got my 1st BMW and saw this thread and thought it’d be a good spot for my first post here.

Which one are you?

[SurfcasterPE]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Attachment 3347725 Which one are you?

I’m on the far left. 😁