F1 2022: Dutch GP - Zandvoort (Sep 4)

[NYG]

Leeeeeeeeeeet's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SUPER MAXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

Safety yellows also helped

I don't tink the safety car helped Max to win. Certainly not that last one.
Max had a huge lead (14-18sec).
Normally a safety car is totally not beneficial for the race leader, and it requires to have some strategy balls (next to that you loose your xx second lead).
If you don't pit for new tyres, the car(s) behind you will, and it's abu dhabi all over.
If you do pit for new tyres and the car(s) behind you don't, you loose first place
If you pit for new tyres and the car(s) behind you also do, you again end up at P1 but you've lost your lead.

From these choices, not pitting for new tyres is usually the worst strategy as tyres make such a huge difference.
Max/RB knows this, and RUS knows this. I hope Hammy now also knows this after having made this mistake twice.
Giving up being race leader for getting better tyres is not a decision everyone can make apparently.
Today's victory for Max/RB was one well deserved.

[Artemis]

Hamilton (°7 Jan 1985) won 10 races when he was 30 (2015) and 31 (2016). He won 11 races when he was 29 (2014), 33 (2018), 34 (2019) and 35 (2020). All during the 2014-2020 golden era for Mercedes.

Verstappen (°30 Sep 1997) won 10 races when he was 23-24 (2021 and 2022). If he wins 1 of the 7 remaining races this season, he equals Hamilton's personal record (or 2 out of 7 when calculated percentage wise).

Hamilton is 37 now. Verstappen will be 37 in 2034. More top drivers will join F1 in the future. Someday the Verstappen domination era will end, just like Verstappen ended the Hamilton domination era in 2021. But not today.


(source: here)

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

Agreed. Dumbest logic. You're a PROFESSIONAL. It's your job to figure it out. That's why you get PAID. Ask Ric how that's worked out.

Show me with race performance, or there's tons of kids waiting in the wings for their opportunity. The only outlier I'd say is Alonso. That guy is just unbelievable. He may not be as fast as when he was younger, but he's a racer.

Exactly, you can prefer an understeery car all you want but if your understeery car is significantly slower than an oversteery car (as it typically should be) then clearly it would be the wrong direction to the develop the car. Red Bull isn't going to invest development into a slower fundamental characteristic of a car.

[Mr Pete]

I don't understand this logic of the idea of developing a car for only one of their 2 drivers. Financially, I would be so f'ing pissed if my engineers and mechanics made 2 cars, and 1 of the cars was driveable for wins, and the other not. Because we wanted to develop a car to be driven to suit one of my drivers only. Wtf so stupid haha. From a business perspective, I'm firing a shitload of people if this was the case.

Haha I realize it's impossible for some to comment without removing their subjective emotional biases but come on man hahaha

[///M Power-Belgium]

[///M Power-Belgium]

[NYG]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

I don't understand this logic of the idea of developing a car for only one of their 2 drivers. Financially, I would be so f'ing pissed if my engineers and mechanics made 2 cars, and 1 of the cars was driveable for wins, and the other not. Because we wanted to develop a car to be driven to suit one of my drivers only. Wtf so stupid haha. From a business perspective, I'm firing a shitload of people if this was the case.

Haha I realize it's impossible for some to comment without removing their subjective emotional biases but come on man hahaha

Plus they have standard manufacturing components that are developed over the season. There's a cost cap. At the very best, Checo can play with ride heights/suspension settings/aero settings but it looks like he keeps pushing the team to load the rear while Max keeps pushing the team to load the front. It's obvious which option nets the highest reward but I guess Checo doesn't like the added instability of the car with that setup.

Whether it "suits" Max's driving style more or less doesn't make a difference. The car is ultimately faster.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

They had to go to quick fit to get that missing tyre....

[Mr Pete]

Ms Schmitz and her crucial high pressure decisions, Red Bull just pay her whatever her salary demands are haha. Her brain just works so differently with the data they gather. She's a keeper

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX is leading the WDC with 108 driver points !

Constructors..
RBR 511
Ferrari 376
Merc 346
Watch out Ferrari

Monza is next weekend!

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by NYG

Plus they have standard manufacturing components that are developed over the season. There's a cost cap. At the very best, Checo can play with ride heights/suspension settings/aero settings but it looks like he keeps pushing the team to load the rear while Max keeps pushing the team to load the front. It's obvious which option nets the highest reward but I guess Checo doesn't like the added instability of the car with that setup.

Whether it "suits" Max's driving style more or less doesn't make a difference. The car is ultimately faster.

"It's the Indian, not the arrow."

[Chappers 71]

Enjoyable race but was disappointed that racing fans were deprived of what should have been an exciting end to the race by the safety car, without it Max would have been behind the two MB's after his final stop & I would have liked to see what unfolded.
Coincidence that the Alpha was sent back out a second time only to be told to "Stop, Stop Stop"...or more underhand RBSR tactics??

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

I don't understand this logic of the idea of developing a car for only one of their 2 drivers.

They're making the car that results in the fastest combination.
It's better to have a car/driver combination that gets that WDC title, than to have a car that gets 2nd and 3rd for both the drivers.
Even if that would result in the WCC title.

The WDC is the grand price. That gets so much more media coverage.

For sure the WCC brings in FIA money, but the one thing top teams don't need is extra money. Before the budget cuts, the sponsors could bring in 400million+ annually. These sponsors are still there. Now they are only allowed to spend 145 million annually. So clearly money isn't the problem for those (top) teams (the amount they are allowed to spend is)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX is leading the WDC with 108 driver points !

Sergio needs to pull the stops out to sideline Chas getting ahead again and it's Monza race looming in 7 days.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

without it Max would have been behind the two MB's after his final stop

Without it Max wouldn't have stopped anymore for new tyres.
He was on hards that were easily fresh enough.
The merc's were on mediums with about the same number of laps as Max' tyres and also wouldn't have stopped for new tyres.
So in an ideal situation they could have gained a bit on Max, but Max had a ~15 sec lead and lap times where about equal at that point, so the result would have been:
1. VER
2. HAM
3. RUS
4. LEC
5. PER
6. SAI
7. ALO

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Without it Max wouldn't have stopped anymore for new tyres.
He was on hards that were easily fresh enough.
The merc's were on mediums with about the same number of laps as Max' tyres and also wouldn't have stopped for new tyres.
So in an ideal situation they could have gained a bit on Max, but Max had a ~15 sec lead and lap times where about equal at that point, so the result would have been:
1. VER
2. HAM
3. RUS
4. LEC
5. PER
6. SAI
7. ALO

Well I disagree & believe Max would have needed the second stop The safety car insured Max lost less time carrying out that stop.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

They had to go to quick fit to get that missing tyre....

Sure ...

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

Well I disagree & believe Max would have needed the second stop

His hards were just as old as both merc's mediums. They all swapped tyres in the same lap, being lap 49; during the virtual sc because of TSU.
In what situation do you have to stop earlier on hards than on mediums?
That only happens when you damage your tyre or something.

So there were 23 laps to go, Max on fresh hards, HAM and RUS on fresh meds.
But HAM was only marginally gaining on the meds, and most of it was directly after the VSC; by the time the SC came, their speeds were virtually the same with a 11,5sec gap.

But no way Max needed another stop.

Max and RB played it beautifully today, making the right decisions at exactly the right time. A well deserved victory.
If Max hadn't come in for reds at that last SC, he for sure would have lost the race in exactly the same way Hammy lost his last year at abu dhabi, and now how he lost his 2nd place and ended 4th.
A textbook strategy example of what to do and what not to do if you ask me.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

His hards were just as old as both merc's mediums. They all swapped tyres in the same lap, being lap 49; during the virtual sc because of TSU.
In what situation do you have to stop earlier on hards than on mediums?
That only happens when you damage your tyre or something.

Well, we’ll never know now

[GuidoK]

yes we'll never know, just as we'll never know if it started to rain or whatever else didn't happen.

But for sure on this track the gap between RB, Ferrari and MERC was smaller than on pretty much every other track. Merc is sure making progress which is good, this track isn't optimal for the RB18, and ferrari... well....this time they only made mistakes with SAI, but yes, still mistakeS....
This was for sure an entertaining and close race to watch, seeing superior (and not so superior) strategy unfold.

My guess is next week in Monza it will be embarresment as usual again

[NickyC]

Turned out to be a great race after the snooze fest from last year, well done of course by Max!

Ferrari just continues their spiral, how do you only bring three tires out to a pit stop? Good grief. Hopefully nothing like this happens next week at Monza or there could a riot.

Hamilton needs to cool it with the comments. Telling the team they "f'd" him over on the radio where everyone can hear it is not ideal to say the least. He needs to remember that team gave him a car that was far and away better than the competition for many years so the last thing they could ever do is "f" him.