Women's congruence tests... and how to pass them?

[upstatedoc]

Dude please say you're busting our chops

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

If I am not communicating clearly, wittingly, honestly, assertively.

In short, no. No, you are not communicating clearly, honestly, or effectively with her.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

In short, no. No, you are not communicating clearly, honestly, or effectively with her.

Be careful what you wish for. You're the one that wanted an update. I told you!

LOL.

Carry on....

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Ugh... I'm not going to defend myself here, as I find it rather meaningless... but, in brief:

Yes, indeed, what does her "yes" or "no" change? Or, moreover, what is it supposed to change?

In my original post, I asked if I can communicate with her better. The thread derailled into: "ask her if she's into you, if yes, bang her and sort things out", or "if she's not into you, why spend your time with her?" (this ofc spawns more questions, like can a man have a female friend without wanting to bang her, etc etc etc... don't want to go there)

Frankly, I am wondering how to be a better person. If I am not communicating clearly, wittingly, honestly, assertively, I want to learn how to do so. So I wrote my post, wondering if I could do better... say things differently, act differently...

Or if I ought just to accept the way she is...

I want to promote understanding where possible, I want to understand her and be understood. So that's why I've repeatedly said: I will handle these situations and give her a chance. If she doesn't want to change, I will respect it. Will I remove myself from some situations in the future? Maybe. But will I stop being myself, well, um no...

honestly, i have no idea what the point of your OP was if it wasnt asking for relationship advice.

if the point of the whole thread is "how can i communicate better with this girl that is barely interested in me and i dont care if i have a romantic relationship with", then this thread is even worse than i thought.

[bosstones]

Guys, please just let this thread drift off into internet oblivion so a bot can revive it in 5 or so years.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

honestly, i have no idea what the point of your OP was if it wasnt asking for relationship advice.

if the point of the whole thread is "how can i communicate better with this girl that is barely interested in me and i dont care if i have a romantic relationship with", then this thread is even worse than i thought.

Exactly. He wants to be better at communicating his indifference to her.

[rebekahb]

The answer is no you're not communicating effectively. 12 pages should be a crystal clear indicator with no progression.

On the real, you seem to be a nice dude and while we can't fathom or understand your decisions you've never gotten nasty or defensive in regards to some of the comments. In the end, it's not our lives so best of luck to you on your journey.

[kimbow]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Ugh... I'm not going to defend myself here, as I find it rather meaningless... but, in brief:

Yes, indeed, what does her "yes" or "no" change? Or, moreover, what is it supposed to change?

In my original post, I asked if I can communicate with her better. The thread derailled into: "ask her if she's into you, if yes, bang her and sort things out", or "if she's not into you, why spend your time with her?" (this ofc spawns more questions, like can a man have a female friend without wanting to bang her, etc etc etc... don't want to go there)

Frankly, I am wondering how to be a better person. If I am not communicating clearly, wittingly, honestly, assertively, I want to learn how to do so. So I wrote my post, wondering if I could do better... say things differently, act differently...

Or if I ought just to accept the way she is...

I want to promote understanding where possible, I want to understand her and be understood. So that's why I've repeatedly said: I will handle these situations and give her a chance. If she doesn't want to change, I will respect it. Will I remove myself from some situations in the future? Maybe. But will I stop being myself, well, um no...

I dont think a BMW car forum is the best place for airing your woes. You would be better off posting on a touchy feely relationship counselling site, if this is all true and not a big wind up from a 13 year old keyboard warrior! However the entertainment value is superb as its taken our minds off Mr Putin trying to start world war three in the Ukraine

[DieselDiner]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

So I wrote my post, wondering if I could do better... say things differently, act differently...

Or if I ought just to accept the way she is...

I want to promote understanding where possible, I want to understand her and be understood. So that's why I've repeatedly said: I will handle these situations and give her a chance. If she doesn't want to change, I will respect it. Will I remove myself from some situations in the future? Maybe. But will I stop being myself, well, um no...

Any relationship that lasts must have some degree of balance between the 2 individuals involved. Not necessarily 50/50, but a relationship that is severely out of balance just simply cannot last. Everything you've described between yourself and this person is descriptive of a relationship that is severely out of balance. If you don't believe that, try a simple test: do not contact her for 1 week, and see if she reaches out to you. If she doesn't, go ahead and touch base with her at the end of one week. Next, try going 2 weeks and see if she reaches out to you. As before, if she doesn't, after 2 weeks feel free to touch base with her. And so on...

You don't seem to give her any room to breathe or express herself - it's all you. Give her room and see what she does (or doesn't) do with the space. At that point you might start seeing things as they really are (or aren't) between you two.

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

In short, no. No, you are not communicating clearly, honestly, or effectively with her.

Yes, yes, yes! So that's why I came to ask... if I didn't value her, I wouldn't bother. There are plenty of people I don't spend my time with that I could... so I can't be bothered asking about "how I should talk to them". However, with her, I am bothered because I value what we have - be it friendship, situationship, or whatever else.

Originally Posted by rebekahb

The answer is no you're not communicating effectively. 12 pages should be a crystal clear indicator with no progression.

On the real, you seem to be a nice dude and while we can't fathom or understand your decisions you've never gotten nasty or defensive in regards to some of the comments. In the end, it's not our lives so best of luck to you on your journey.

I came to ask questions, to seek answers, and to make progress - not to be defensive or aggressive. So, I understand that "I have made no progress", for me it's just a question of timing now, when progress will be made... but yeah, I thank everyone for their input, some of it has helped and moved me at least on the mental/wisdom level - and we will see what happens when I apply it, but as they say, everything starts with a thought...

Originally Posted by DieselDiner

Any relationship that lasts must have some degree of balance between the 2 individuals involved. Not necessarily 50/50, but a relationship that is severely out of balance just simply cannot last. Everything you've described between yourself and this person is descriptive of a relationship that is severely out of balance. If you don't believe that, try a simple test: do not contact her for 1 week, and see if she reaches out to you. If she doesn't, go ahead and touch base with her at the end of one week. Next, try going 2 weeks and see if she reaches out to you. As before, if she doesn't, after 2 weeks feel free to touch base with her. And so on...

You don't seem to give her any room to breathe or express herself - it's all you. Give her room and see what she does (or doesn't) do with the space. At that point you might start seeing things as they really are (or aren't) between you two.

Yes, especially regarding the last part - I have started making more room for her in the past weeks (also given the rising covid numbers, my sickness etc.) and it has shown that she does call me, does engage with me, and in general wants to see me... (i.e she doesn't necessarily ask how I am, but says: hey, let's meet and chat)

... as I said before, we have mostly pleasant exchanges... it's not like she calls me to get her "fix", i.e. to demean me, to ask for things or whatever on the regular...

so, that's why I have taken these "bang her or move on" things with a grain of salt, as I like her as a person (i.e. I don't have to be the one banging her), and the fact that I say "this one thing doesn't work, help me out" doesn't mean that nothing works and the sky is falling...

[upstatedoc]

This thread makes me physically ill

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

This thread makes me physically ill

Maybe you should see a doctor?

[DETRoadster]

I curious how you met this woman? How did this all start out?

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Maybe you should see a doctor?

Unfortunately there's no cure

[No one]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

"bang her or move on"

"Bang her two times. And run away!"

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

I curious how you met this woman? How did this all start out?

"Dumb and Dumberer: When Harry Met Lloyd" is crap compared to "Dumb and Dumber".

[D_o_S]

Hiya,

I meant to give you all an update a while back, but things were rather uneventful - i.e. I was, to some extent, waiting for an opportunity to bring up and discuss the topics in this this thread, but they didn't seem to re-occur...

Meanwhile, our interactions did "settle down" a little bit, and I think intensified from her side - she started calling me, she started inviting me for dinner and places... both on a planned schedule, and in an operational way... we shared, at least from my perspective, a lot of fun moments.

We also exchanged some opinions, where to me, she seems a little "touchy" when confronted with things she knows little/nothing about and I ask her for her opinion. She suggests that "You know so much more about so and so, so why am I asking her?". I explain to her that even though I may know more about something, that doesn't mean that her input is not valuable...

And, last week, she threw another, from my perspective harsh, remark (I am saying "another" since I am rather sensitive to this, it's not like she does it every day) - we were walking down the street (with nowhere to hurry to) and I was walking at my normal pace. She said: "Do we have to walk so fast?". I replied "Sure we don't, we have no where to rush to"... and we continued on our walk.

Later that evening, I decided to give her feedback, something along the lines of "Hey, I have a little open feedback to give you. When we were walking down the street earlier today, I think you said something along the lines of "Do we have to walk so fast?" and that sounded rather harsh to me."

We exchanged a few words (in a calm atmosphere) and I told her that I would find it nicer if she formulated her request in a way that would suggest what ought to be done, i.e.: "Can we please walk slower?"

I told her that such a request is "constructive" and elicits a "constructive" response, rather than her harsh tone and a response that must be defensive due to the way the question is formulated. I.e. her way of presenting her statement requires me to say "Yes or no" and defend why.

And, I cannot quite pinpoint the exact point or words, but our conversation soon went haywire. She started mentioning that "but we were in no rush" and then, later on, that we were in a rush, that's why she said nothing etc... basically, diverting from the case in hand (I did not want to discuss walking pace, etc., but rather HOW we communicated), to general statements on how she doesn't have the need to please everyone... to "Well, the people around me should get me, they shouldn't need me to explain myself"... to "So I'm ending this conversation right now". And so, I let her end the conversation.

???

Well, what can I say. Ultimately, I didn't feel heard - and, moreover, I didn't feel an effort to be heard. And, in addition, it doesn't seem like she was concerned about her behaviour - I mean, rather than saying thinks like "Yes, I see your viewpoint" or "How could I have acted better?" etc. we went down the rabbit hole of "Hey, I don't need to please everyone" and "Hey, people around me should get me" ====> in effect, "I'm not the one who needs to change" and "You're the weird one".

All in all, this is among the first times I have had such a conversation with her – to give her feedback on something I didn’t like, that has repeated itself. Being a constructive person, I expected a different conversation, but so be it.
I’m not giving up on her, but rather, I will try to have these conversations more openly and see if we can make some progress.

[wtwo3]

Yup... I agree with posts above about 0 progress having been made.

1) Why were you walking so fast? if you have nowhere to be, then slow it down.

2) Her comment doesn't seem harsh AT ALL. "Do we have to walk so fast?" sounds like a perfectly logical question if you're walking faster than necessary. If anything, I would have responded with some playful banter... tease her for walking too slow... make up some random statistic about the average walking speed of humans... anything. Instead you bottled it up and then decided to have an entire "conversation" about it later because you were butthurt over a totally normal request by her.

3) These conversations sound pretty ridiculous. You're not even technically dating... and even if you were, dating is supposed to be fun and flirty. Not full of these "constructive feedback" conversations. That's a huge red flag that this isn't going anywhere good.

[dreamingat30fps]

[D_o_S]

We were not walking fast, it was a frame of reference - we were walking at my normal pace, I guess hers is slower. On the other hand, she proceeded to walk "just as fast" on her own initiative later that afternoon without complaining...


As mentioned, if it's a one off event, it's OK and I wouldn't bother talking to her... but it has happened recurrently in the past and sometimes seems to go down a rabbit hole, where the whole conversation then proceeds in "why are you/why is everything so bad, etc..." rather than saying "Hey, could we...". I.e. It has happened that she would start with "Do we have to walk so fast?" and continues to "Gee, it's only 21:00 and you already want to go to bed?", and yes, "Why are we driving so slow?", followed by "Why are we driving so fast" a few moments later... followed by "Do you have to speak so loudly?"

instead of saying:
- Could we walk a little slower please?
- Goodnight and see you tomorrow
- Could you please speed up a bit?
- Could you please speak a little more softly?
I mean, to each his own... but if I come home to her dinner, I'm not going to tell her "Did you have to make it so spicy today?". Rather, I will tell her: "Hey, could you please make it a little less spicy next time?" Or, even: "I'm sorry, but this food is too spicy for me. Would you have anything less so, that I could grab a bite of?"

I mean, does it sound friendly if your friends are constantly saying "Do you have to..." in a way suggesting that you doing are wrong? I don't think anyone could take that continually...

It also sounds like projection to me: I don't want to say what I want, but instead, I blame you for not doing it, implicitly. You get into your friends car, are you going to tell him "Does it have to be so cold in here?". Or are you going to say "Hey, could you turn down the airconditioning just a bit?" You are implicitly suggesting the other party has created a problem, is "dumb for doing so" (yeah, I turned the AC on for no reason at all, I am rather cold myself but I'll leave it on full blast") and will comply with the novel viewpoint you have brought into their life (i.e. "Gee, its freezing in here and I didn't realize that, thank you for pointing it out")

It would have been nicer to even ask "Why are we walking so fast..."

It's different if you use this phrase if you are suggesting something... like "Let's go to London, then to Rome", a response along the lines of "Do we have to go to Rome?" is fine by me, perhaps followed by a suggestion of where to visit...

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

...More trivial crap to excuse someone's behaviour...

These "Forever Alone" memes - have you seen them? They're you. Unless you choose to change and stop analyzing everything to the nth degree. And stop trying to force someone into your box. And stop making excuses for bad behaviour and instead just drop them, move on to the next. Get some confidence. This is going nowhere good, and if you proceed, you won't be forever alone, but you will be forever unhappy. For someone so deeply analytical, I would have thought you'd be able to have come to this conclusion by now. I guess the saying is true, love is indeed blind. But it isn't fully, is it?

[wtwo3]

You're missing the point.


Her saying "do we have to walk so fast?" isn't the problem. The problem is your response to it.

You can either lighten the mood by teasing her with some playful banter back at her which can easily turn into some fun flirting.... or you can do some weird intervention type shit with these lame ass "constructive feedback" conversations which suck the fun out of literally everything. Take a guess which one you're engaging in.

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

These "Forever Alone" memes - have you seen them? They're you. Unless you choose to change and stop analyzing everything to the nth degree. And stop trying to force someone into your box. And stop making excuses for bad behaviour and instead just drop them, move on to the next. Get some confidence. This is going nowhere good, and if you proceed, you won't be forever alone, but you will be forever unhappy. For someone so deeply analytical, I would have thought you'd be able to have come to this conclusion by now. I guess the saying is true, love is indeed blind. But it isn't fully, is it?

Yes, I agree - from forever alone to forever unhappy is a very gloomy prospect.

Originally Posted by wtwo3

You're missing the point.


Her saying "do we have to walk so fast?" isn't the problem. The problem is your response to it.

You can either lighten the mood by teasing her with some playful banter back at her which can easily turn into some fun flirting.... or you can do some weird intervention type shit with these lame ass "constructive feedback" conversations which suck the fun out of literally everything. Take a guess which one you're engaging in.

YES, I agree. I can make things light and fun if it happens once.

But as I said...

... it has happened a few times. How long do you keep it lighthearted and playful before you say "We need to have a word?" All in all, humor was (and is) my first response...