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12-13-2011, 08:31 AM | #222 |
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Are you paid to promote this car?
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12-13-2011, 09:06 AM | #223 | |
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The only front engine car I've driven that has the natural balance of a rear/mid engine car is the FD RX-7, but getting a piston motor to have that sort of rearward bias and low center of gravity isn't really feasible. The first gen S2000 was very close and had natural oversteer in lots of conditions, so hopefully the Toyobaru will at least be close to the feel of that car, but I doubt it, Toyota is far too cautious to put something out with natural oversteer, and every past Subaru product has had nearly terminal understeer. |
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12-13-2011, 09:35 AM | #224 | |
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I believe that any well balanced FR car can be made to behave and feel the way you want it to (either understeer, neutral, or oversteer) at the limit by suspension tuning, wheel/tire selection, and proper use of aero. From all of the reviews we've see so far for the FRS/BRZ, it looks like the car has tons of potential and will definitely be a good base to start from. I don't think I'll be disappointed in making the switch. |
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12-13-2011, 09:47 AM | #225 | |
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Good article, that confirms Prius tires(!?): http://www.insideline.com/scion/fr-s...dont-know.html Last edited by Red Bread; 12-13-2011 at 09:58 AM.. |
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12-13-2011, 10:02 AM | #226 | |
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I plan on doing much more than just tires though. |
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12-13-2011, 10:19 AM | #227 | |
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In the few years that I've owned my E92, I honestly had more fun in my hooning situations when I tried out the not-so-high-performance General Exclaim UHPs; getting the tail out required very little throttle and the speeds that it took place were far more sane than what the stock tires allow. The lack of grip did present some safety hazards and became occasionally frustrating, however.
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12-13-2011, 10:22 AM | #228 |
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I can imagine how impressive this cars braking distances would be with a set of sticky tires.
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12-13-2011, 10:35 AM | #229 | |
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12-13-2011, 10:37 AM | #230 |
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12-13-2011, 10:43 AM | #231 | |
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Got it?! |
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12-13-2011, 10:49 AM | #232 | |
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It took power upgrades to make it possible. Of course it also came with massively better tires than this thing is coming with, so perhaps there's hope in stock form. It will be interesting to see what tires Subaru uses, as they're already using different suspension tuning. |
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12-13-2011, 11:01 AM | #233 | |
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My Cayman (2.9L and 265hp) understeers heavily because it's underpowered - the chassis is so good that it could cope with a lot more power - and to make things worse it doesn't have LSD, therefore I can't dictate its behaviour only with the throttle I need to trail brake of left-foot brake in order to bring the nose into the corner. |
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12-13-2011, 11:16 AM | #234 | |
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Then again, everyone has their favorites.
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12-13-2011, 11:18 AM | #235 | |
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I do think that the Cayman/Boxster platform is more naturally balanced, and the power delivery is certainly more accessible than the Lotus. |
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12-13-2011, 11:19 AM | #236 |
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Moreover, with the Elise/Exige if you lift-off to try to compensate for the understeer they will likely snap into oversteer in a hurry, just like the Caterham.
The only difference is that with the latter you get power oversteer whereas with the former you get lift-off oversteer but neither of them have a progressive breakaway because they aren't the most balanced of cars. |
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12-13-2011, 11:31 AM | #237 | |
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It was a close toss-up between the two. But I needed the bigger rear space. PS: A picture is worth a thousand words! Last edited by GoingTooFast; 12-13-2011 at 11:54 AM.. |
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12-13-2011, 11:42 AM | #238 | |
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I don't think a light weight car such as the FSR requires that much power in order to steer with the throttle, even with wider/much stickier tires. You won't have the power do be doing big smokey power oversteers, but you should still be able to steer with the throttle at the limit of adhesion, albeit at a much faster speed. I am able to do so in my s2k even with 255 NT01's all around. |
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12-13-2011, 11:46 AM | #239 | |
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In fact, it's not only the cheer grip we should be looking for in a tire... for a dd the most important thing is its breakaway characteristics. A tire should be predictable and if then you can add the grip you've found the best tire possible. It will always be a trade-off, though! Slicks are not very predictable. |
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12-14-2011, 08:32 AM | #241 | |
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I've already posted the following vid somewhere else, however it's a very good example of how the setup of the car can influence its handling characteristics. The Evora despite of having more weight on the back (39% - 61%) doesn't understeer like the more naturally balanced Cayman.
You can see that the Cayman being tested has 19" wheels and mine are 18" having 235/35 - 235/40 front, 265/35 - 265/40 rear, respectively. Certainly it makes for a more appealing aesthetics BUT when you think that the stock wheels are 17" with 205/55 front and 235/50 rear tires you readly understand why that and also my Cayman understeers so much - too much rubber for such low power! Also, neither have LSD an they have roughly the same curb weight (~1350kg) BUT the Evora despite of having only 15hp more does have a lot more torque, 350Nm @ 4600rpm vs 300Nm @ 4400-6000rpm, which is important in helping break loose the rear tires (255/35/19) traction. Since the gear ratios are not that different, Cayman..... Evora (close ratio) 3.66.......... 3.54 2.05.......... 1.91 1.40.......... 1.41 1.13.......... 1.09 0.97.......... 0.97 0.84.......... 0.86 3.87.......... 3.78 (final drive) we can think of this torque difference as the difference between having the overboost function ON and OFF in the 1M. That's a big difference... 2.9L Cayman without LSD understeering badly BTW, I really wish this Toyobaru could have a supercharger (instead of the more conventional turbo) just like the Toyota engine from the Evora S and dispite the fuel efficiency disadvantage: Quote:
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12-14-2011, 09:05 AM | #242 |
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With the heavy rear weight bias, it would take a lot of chassis tuning to get the Evora to understeer. Just switching an Elise to a more squared tire setup dials out nearly all of their understeer. Similar changes go for the 986/987, going to a square 235 or 245 setup certainly makes them more balanced than the factory fitments.
To your other point, is there any reason that Toyota/Scion can't run a supercharger while Subaru runs a turbo? |
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